Some questions for the THT owners in the house - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Some questions for the THT owners in the house. I’ve noticed that many of the THT build threads are a bit older, so I’m wondering if the owners have feedback on how life with the big box is working out. I've also seen a number of disparaging / dismissive / doubtful comments about the design both here and on other forums, and I find some of its defenders claims to be, um, overzealous and smelling faintly of kool-aid, if that makes sense...

I’m currently debating the path for my first DIY sub (first sub ever, actually) and am going back and forth between a THT and a mid/large ported design. I have a large, open room (18x20, big angled ceiling, open to dining room and foyer, etc) and my HT gear is modest, though upgrades are planned.

My pro/con list:

THT
Pro:
  • Documented design and build plan
  • Low cost
  • Efficient
  • Multiple happy owners
Con:
  • Big box
  • Restrictive placement options, at least in my room
  • Limited sub-20hz response
  • May require EQ/HPF
  • Availability of construction material

Ported

Pro:
  • Smaller cabinet
  • More flexible placement (there are more places to put a standard cab in my room, and the cabinet size and shape can be adjusted to fit in more places)
  • Many, many, many options for driver, amplifier, enclosure combinations
  • Zillions of successful builds both DIY and commercial
  • Greater (lower) extension, smoother rolloff
Con:
  • Costlier amp/driver
  • More design work/construction required (could be a “pro” as well)
  • Distortion(?)

I’ve modeled a few different ported boxes based on the Dayton Titanic 15” driver coupled with a 500w plate amp. This combo in an 8 cf net box yields 114+ db at 30hz and drops to 111 db at 20 hz (19hz is the tuning level on this example). This looks pretty good compared with the charts listed on the BFM site for the THT. The amp/driver will end up about $100 more than the THT amp/driver, but MDF is cheaper and much easier to come by than Baltic Birch, at least near me, so construction costs may be a wash.

I guess my question is are the THT owners happy campers, especially at below “hello officer” levels? It’s cool to rattle the pictures off the walls, but how is it living day to day in a modest HT system, in an non-dedicated room? For the record, I’ve purchased the THT plans but am still noodling which way to go. I will say that a THT in my room would have to be no wider than 20" - I know this compromises "something" but have never gotten a clear answer as to what exactly that something *is*.

Many thanks for any thoughts and comments!
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post #2 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 08:40 AM
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Hi MM,

I've had my THT for just over a year now so I'll give you my impressions of "life with a THT" has been.
Quick background: This was my first foray into DIY subs, so I appreciated the large number of other THT builds that were going on at AVS just prior to my starting. I had the plans for about 2+months before making any sawdust. I highly recommend gathering all the relevant info you can and learn from other's breakthroughs/shortcuts as well as the mistakes. Made my build go much smoother as I could anticipate potential hazards before they happened. You can see my build thread in my sig below. I really enjoyed the build and it went VERY smooth, considering it was my first attempt—a 24" wide version. For a rather small investment (less than $600 for material & amp), I now have a sub that betters any of my previous subs AND for less money. It IS large—and space is limited in my room—but I was fortunately able to move around things a bit to accommodate the beast.

My room was 17x18, with a 9' peaked ceiling, and could be closed off from the rest of the house. The THT is situated in the rear corner of the room, opposite the front speakers & screen. It will indeed "rattle the walls" if given the chance—but most times, my HT viewing volume is set at -10 ( 0=ref); which provides plenty of slam in the HT experience.

For music, I'll crank it to reference levels & I really enjoy how well the sub blends. Still plenty of 'clean' thump but not overpowering.

I am considering building another one for the opposite corner. See below....
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post #3 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Kevin,

Much appreciated. One of the ideas I've been thinking about from a construction standpoint: could you use a 1/4" sheet of regular plywood to lay out a template for all panels and braces, then use that to cut matching dadoes on each side panel? You could flop the template over to the other side panel and be sure that the two halves would match exactly.


Seems to me that if you used a 9/16" or so bit, you'd get a nice snug fit on the 1/2" plywood. cut the dadoes 1/4" deep, fill with PL, stick the panel in and voila, a nice tight cab.

I'm not expert nor did I stay at a holiday inn express, but it seems to me this would work. *shrug*
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post #4 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 10:04 AM
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I've finished mine last weekend. I can't tell you how well the box holds up, but I can say it replaced a 10" and 15" smaller subs and it doesn't disappoint so far. Way, way, way more output than the other two together, no joke. I get the feel now instead of just hearing LF.
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post #5 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 10:14 AM
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I went from 8 cerwin vega 15s to two thts. No comparison. Im doing 125 db at lp. I could go louder except my components are dancing out of the rack and my cd player will skip. I am building 2 more once I stabilize my components in the racks.
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post #6 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 10:22 AM
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I've had mine for about a year as well and it never ceases to amaze me (and my guests). I have a pretty decent system and the THT has added another level of bass to my theater. I too am considering a second one for that "good evening officer" effect. The build isn't too difficult. It won't let you down!

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post #7 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 10:24 AM
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Templates are a great idea....

.....if they don't flex.

Ask me how I learned that....

Rabbeted sides can be a bit tricky to assemble, but if you keep things square and give yourself enough room (1/2" wide rabbets for 12 mm Arauco works well) things typically drop together without any drama.

I routed the sides on the last tapped horns I did 1/8" deep, and they worked fine, but 1/4" might work better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMichigan View Post

Kevin,

Much appreciated. One of the ideas I've been thinking about from a construction standpoint: could you use a 1/4" sheet of regular plywood to lay out a template for all panels and braces, then use that to cut matching dadoes on each side panel? You could flop the template over to the other side panel and be sure that the two halves would match exactly.


Seems to me that if you used a 9/16" or so bit, you'd get a nice snug fit on the 1/2" plywood. cut the dadoes 1/4" deep, fill with PL, stick the panel in and voila, a nice tight cab.

I'm not expert nor did I stay at a holiday inn express, but it seems to me this would work. *shrug*

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post #8 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, Lowes may be helping to make the decision for me - none of the stores within 100 miles stock arauco ply, and they can't even special order it (from what I was told) in less than a full pallet.

Baltic birch is $80 for a 5x5 sheet at any of the local yards, and the nearest place that stocks 4'x8' sheet is an hour and a half, one way, and the BB is twice the cost of MDF.

Getting harder to justify the bigger box when cost is looking to actually be more for a THT. Grrr....
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post #9 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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@ lilmike

My thought was to align the template to the side panel, clamp it in place, then use the router to cut the dadoes. (crude sketchup example attached)

I'm probably way oversimplifying this, but if you could use the same template to cut dadoes on each side panel you could put all or most of the internals in place, then put the other side on (fitting into the dadoes), glue the top, bottom, back and front in place and boom! - insta-cab.

I'm sure it is way, way harder than that but it all sounds good in theory!
LL
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post #10 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMichigan View Post

@ lilmike

My thought was to align the template to the side panel, clamp it in place, then use the router to cut the dadoes. (crude sketchup example attached)

I'm probably way oversimplifying this, but if you could use the same template to cut dadoes on each side panel you could put all or most of the internals in place, then put the other side on (fitting into the dadoes), glue the top, bottom, back and front in place and boom! - insta-cab.

I'm sure it is way, way harder than that but it all sounds good in theory!

No - it is not harder. Using a template is a brilliant way to make duplicates of something, and flipping it makes an exact mirror image. That's exactly what I did, it is just that the 1/2" ply I used for the template flexed way too much at the throat-end.



Results turned out OK, I just had to use a lot of spacer blocks to hold the template solid while I routed it out.



This was a little experimental build I just did. As usual with my builds - it was a learning experience, but at least I also managed to learn what I had hoped to this time. I also learned that cutting a tapped horn cabinet in half with a chainsaw makes a REALLY loud noise.





If you do rabbeted sides, be sure all of the rabbets are clean and clear before applying glue. Make sure all your pieces are cut with square ends, and be sure things go together squarely. It would not hurt to use a little extra glue, and definitely use clamps to pull everything nice and tight if you're only brad-nailing the side panels in place.
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post #11 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 12:48 PM
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Where are you located? Are you in MI?
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post #12 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 12:51 PM
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That's a great way of doing things if you are building a few of them.

I miss my THT.

I guess I am going to have to build a couple more.

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post #13 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

That's a great way of doing things if you are building a few of them.

But not so much for one or two, as you can practically build a cab in the time it takes to make the patterns.

Quote:


Baltic birch is $80 for a 5x5 sheet at any of the local yards

The national average is less than half that. You could get it on line paying shipping for less. And, as the plans state, you don't have to use BB.

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post #14 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

But not so much for one or two, as you can practically build a cab in the time it takes to make the patterns.

The national average is less than half that. You could get it on line paying shipping for less. And, as the plans state, you don't have to use BB.

Ya, no doubt. You have really like work and wood working to do that for one or two.

Definitely, $80 is way high!

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post #15 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMichigan View Post

Well, Lowes may be helping to make the decision for me - none of the stores within 100 miles stock arauco ply, and they can't even special order it (from what I was told) in less than a full pallet.

Have you tried a Menards? That's where I got mine from. I'm in Michigan.
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post #16 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 01:50 PM
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I have had my THT for almost a year. it replaced a 11cuft LLT box with a 15" Fi driver.

I currently have it in the worst placement ever, with the worlds largest null at the listening position. I am a college student and have it and my entire system in my room so I am not afforded any extra space to place it somewhere good. for example I have a small table with sides about a foot from the mount of the sub. My SVSound EQ does an amazing job at flattening it out and it sounds great.

Given it does not have the sub 20hz that my old LLT had, but I think it blends well and it just seems like you can always turn it up without worry. Mine is powered by one channel of an ep2500, way overkill but what i had from the old sub.

At one time i really had it turned up and could see my table top epoxy finish on the top flexing from the pressures, blows my mind that the sub is still in one piece.

over all i am very happy with mine. look around a little more for the wood, there HAS to be something more cost effective then that stuff. My build was nothing special, no dados, just straight cuts and some clamps.

as with everyone I would like to build at least one more in the future and V-couple them for giggles.
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post #17 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMichigan View Post

Well, Lowes may be helping to make the decision for me - none of the stores within 100 miles stock arauco ply, and they can't even special order it (from what I was told) in less than a full pallet.

Baltic birch is $80 for a 5x5 sheet at any of the local yards, and the nearest place that stocks 4'x8' sheet is an hour and a half, one way, and the BB is twice the cost of MDF.

Getting harder to justify the bigger box when cost is looking to actually be more for a THT. Grrr....

Stop looking at Lowes. Check your local independent lumber yards. They often have Arauco. If not, they are a lot more likely to work with you to help you get what you need. I've used crossband softwood ply with good results, it was actually better than the last few sheets of Arauco I bought.

Like everyone else has said, I can get decent quality multiply birch for ~$35 a 4X8, or $30 a 5X5 if I'm willing to drive a few miles to go and get it or wait a few days for my local yard to bring it in. I'm in a pretty major metro area though, sounds like you're not.
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post #18 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 02:34 PM
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Ulrich Lumber in Warren Mi has Aurucoply on their website. I called them and they said they carry it. Call them to double check.
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post #19 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louisdamani View Post

Ulrich Lumber in Warren Mi has Aurucoply on their website. I called them and they said they carry it. Call them to double check.

Perfect! I'm in Macomb Twp, sounds like I need to give them a call. Nearest Menards is over an hour away, though they did have 4x8 sheets of BB for $52.
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post #20 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 04:09 PM
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My local Lowe's has about 15 sheets of Arauca on the shelf, their web site says 59. Looking at the shelf I wouldn't buy any of 15 because of the way less than straight condition. I hope the difference in numbers means there is a pallet stored away someplace.
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post #21 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 05:33 PM
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anyone have a link to the thread with the build of the small ones used in the bedroom? I think they were THT's.
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post #22 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 06:12 PM
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Think you're looking for this.

Not a THT. They're a small tapped horn. THT is a proprietary design by Bill Fitzmaurice. The Insubnia (that build) is a part of a collaborative project over at AudioKarma. It is a free/open design that I created.
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post #23 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 06:28 PM
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mikey how is your TH design coming along(the one posted earlier in this thread)?
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post #24 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 07:18 PM
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I am still impressed with mine. Size is of no concern as my room is a dedicated to movie viewing. Even a 20" wide version will have great output. The 24.5" wide version seems to be the most popular. You will only be losing a bit in overall output going 20". The Dayton you modeled should do the trick if the size won't work for your room.
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post #25 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 07:58 PM
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I've been very happy with my recent 21" THT build for music.
Also have been very disappointed with it for watching HD recorded TV shows on my HTPC.
Tonight I watched my first Blu-Ray (I-Robot) with the THT and it was again, very impressive.

I haven't figured out why it's sucked for watching HD TV shows but is great with everything else.
Have an EQ on the way and will REW it when I get that.

Still miss my twin 15's tuned to 16hz. They just had a more "full" sound to them that made things exciting more often. But the THT has qualities they did not. Such as slam-effect and being cleaner sounding. Though the THT seems to lose some realism at higher output. Not positive yet.

"The boom is dead, long live the bass"
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post #26 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ Eddie View Post

I've been very happy with my recent 21" THT build for music.
Also have been very disappointed with it for watching HD recorded TV shows on my HTPC.

Tonight I watched my first Blu-Ray (I-Robot) with the THT and it was again, very impressive.

I haven't figured out why it's sucked for watching HD TV shows but is great with everything else.
Have an EQ on the way and will REW it when I get that.

Still miss my twin 15's tuned to 16hz. They just had a more "full" sound to them that made things exciting more often. But the THT has qualities they did not. Such as slam-effect and being cleaner sounding. Though the THT seems to lose some realism at higher output. Not positive yet.

I don't find HD TV to be that great either when it comes to bass. Maybe just the way its mixed or whatever
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post #27 of 38 Old 02-25-2011, 08:59 PM
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..

"The boom is dead, long live the bass"
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post #28 of 38 Old 02-26-2011, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobG5589 View Post

I don't find HD TV to be that great either when it comes to bass. Maybe just the way its mixed or whatever

HD TV sound will vary from station to station, network to network, show to show. When you consider that probably 95% of viewers listen to their TV on the internal speakers there's not a lot of reason for TV production companies to spend a lot of $ on audio.

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post #29 of 38 Old 02-26-2011, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

HD TV sound will vary from station to station, network to network, show to show. When you consider that probably 95% of viewers listen to their TV on the internal speakers there's not a lot of reason for TV production companies to spend a lot of $ on audio.

Makes sense. Some stuff has the bass way too hot, other stuff bass is almost non existent. Unless its a HD movie, I generally leave my sub off.
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post #30 of 38 Old 02-26-2011, 09:22 AM
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I wouldn't use broadcast signals as a benchmark for anything.

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