Danley DIY Synergy Horn kit - Page 17 - AVS Forum
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post #481 of 492 Old 12-17-2013, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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'Tis the season of hope!

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post #482 of 492 Old 12-18-2013, 08:17 AM
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haha, hope it is!

Only reason I can see them not making a Unity kit is because they done want to possibly slight that other company which I cant think of right now cause I am still on my first cup of coffee.

Trying to enjoy the simple things in life.

 

Steam: madbrayniak

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post #483 of 492 Old 12-20-2013, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by AudioJosh View Post

Just so that this thread doesn't die away. If it existed, you'd have my money, no questions asked. I just prefer not to have carpeted pro-audio speakers in my living room, or else I'd buy your pro audio ones.

Carpet? I don't think any of the Danley catalog is available in carpet. That's more a DJ/car audio kind of treatment for boxes. In fact, many of the "pro" boxes are available in custom finishes. I think there are some photos of some darling piano white boxes somewhere on their site.
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post #484 of 492 Old 12-21-2013, 11:44 AM
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SH50 vs SM60F in home application. I am seriously considering a LCR set-up with these two options, I am struggling with the benefits of the SH50 vs the SM60F in regards to the low end. From what I have read the and can tell from the specs/FR graphs the units should be very similar throughout the mid-range and upper frequencies with the SM60F having greater high FR extension(can't here much above 17k anyway). With the SM60F it seems with the excess headroom in a home environment that I could EQ/boost the low end around 50HZ(not considering room gain in this theoretical) to get a "flat" response in that area. Maybe this is a bad idea? Obviously I will want to EQ in room anyway.

With the SH50 I could do the same and get "flat" output to 40HZish, again this may not be necessary with room gain.

With this in mind and the fact that I will have a multi-sub setup and not knowing much about room acoustics and speaker interaction at this point, Is their any real advantage of using an SH50 vs the SM60F outside of the obvious cost and size/weight advantages?

Also, if I am thinking about the directivity properly(I am likely not) it would seem that in my 17 x 13.6, 8H listening space with the speakers setup along the short wall that the center channel(not being toed in as the LF/RF will be the SM60F will hit the wall about 1/3 of the way into the room? listening position will be at about 15 feet from front wall or about 13.5 feet from front of speaker.

Perhaps someone who has heard both can comment on the characteristics between these two? Is the SH50 only advantageous for two channel music listening. I am most concerned with music listening.

So SH50 vs SM60F?

Thank You



Thank You
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post #485 of 492 Old 01-13-2014, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bexar View Post

SH50 vs SM60F in home application. I am seriously considering a LCR set-up with these two options, I am struggling with the benefits of the SH50 vs the SM60F in regards to the low end. From what I have read the and can tell from the specs/FR graphs the units should be very similar throughout the mid-range and upper frequencies with the SM60F having greater high FR extension(can't here much above 17k anyway). With the SM60F it seems with the excess headroom in a home environment that I could EQ/boost the low end around 50HZ(not considering room gain in this theoretical) to get a "flat" response in that area. Maybe this is a bad idea? Obviously I will want to EQ in room anyway.

With the SH50 I could do the same and get "flat" output to 40HZish, again this may not be necessary with room gain.

With this in mind and the fact that I will have a multi-sub setup and not knowing much about room acoustics and speaker interaction at this point, Is their any real advantage of using an SH50 vs the SM60F outside of the obvious cost and size/weight advantages?

Also, if I am thinking about the directivity properly(I am likely not) it would seem that in my 17 x 13.6, 8H listening space with the speakers setup along the short wall that the center channel(not being toed in as the LF/RF will be the SM60F will hit the wall about 1/3 of the way into the room? listening position will be at about 15 feet from front wall or about 13.5 feet from front of speaker.

Perhaps someone who has heard both can comment on the characteristics between these two? Is the SH50 only advantageous for two channel music listening. I am most concerned with music listening.

So SH50 vs SM60F?

I would give Danley a call and see what they have to say about it.

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post #486 of 492 Old 01-13-2014, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

haha, hope it is!

Only reason I can see them not making a Unity kit is because they done want to possibly slight that other company which I cant think of right now cause I am still on my first cup of coffee.

Danley has been building speakers for a few decades now, and I think they've never been hotter. The Genesis horns in particular seem to be selling like crazy. Due to that, this is probably the worst possible time for them to invest time in a DIY project. Basically they have to keep their eyes on the prize (the commercial market.)
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post #487 of 492 Old 01-13-2014, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majestik6 View Post

Danley has been building speakers for a few decades now, and I think they've never been hotter. The Genesis horns in particular seem to be selling like crazy. Due to that, this is probably the worst possible time for them to invest time in a DIY project. Basically they have to keep their eyes on the prize (the commercial market.)

No question there.
But, doing a DIY kit is a great promotion for a product and company....the DIY community stretches far and wide.

After all the DTS-10 was based on input from that very same community in which Tom has roots.

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post #488 of 492 Old 01-13-2014, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

No question there.
But, doing a DIY kit is a great promotion for a product and company....the DIY community stretches far and wide.

After all the DTS-10 was based on input from that very same community in which Tom has roots.

I've been building a lot of Synergy horns with miniDSP lately.

The problem with DSP is that it only works at one point in a room. For instance, if you use DSP on a midrange and tweeter to align them, that correction is only accurate for one point.

This leads to speakers that sound good at one spot on the couch, but sound terrible from another. Even worse, that DSP correction can screw up the off-axis response.

In a Synergy horn, we have a couple of things going for us:

1) The drivers are very very close together, so if you need to adjust things, the DSP adjustments are very subtle
2) The walls of the horn constrain the radiation. So if you use DSP to fix response or phase, those corrections are less likely to screw up the off-axis, as they would with a conventional two-way

Bottom line:

You can build a shockingly good Synergy horn with MiniDSP and a few hours. Heck, I'll bet I could build a complete Synergy horn two-way in a single afternoon with MiniDSP. It is seriously the greatest tool for Synergy horn fans.

Here's an example of how I used it personally:

I built a Synergy horn with two midranges and a compression driver. When I measured the combination, there was dip in the upper frequencies. The dip was narrow and deep, which is an indicator that the midrange and the tweeter are out-of-phase in a narrow band.

If I was using passive crossovers, I would have two solutions. The first solution is to trash the horn and start again. The second solution is to increase the rolloff of the midrange, so that it's level is lower at the point where it's interacting with the tweeter.

But with MiniDSP I had another solution; I simply used delay to move the midranges "electronically." And this delay only amounted to a fraction of an inch, but it eliminated the dip.

If it wasn't for MiniDSP, I probably would have had to start again. And considering that it takes a while to build a horn, that could amount to a whole weekend of making sawdust.


Long story short - if you're on the fence about building a Synergy horn, I say go buy yourself some drivers and that QSC horn and a miniDSP. If I can build a Synergy horn in a day, so can you.
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post #489 of 492 Old 01-13-2014, 11:40 AM
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Which QSC horn are you referring to?

Thanks
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post #490 of 492 Old 01-13-2014, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majestik6 View Post

I've been building a lot of Synergy horns with miniDSP lately.

Bottom line:

You can build a shockingly good Synergy horn with MiniDSP and a few hours. Heck, I'll bet I could build a complete Synergy horn two-way in a single afternoon with MiniDSP. It is seriously the greatest tool for Synergy horn fans.

Here's an example of how I used it personally:

I built a Synergy horn with two midranges and a compression driver. When I measured the combination, there was dip in the upper frequencies. The dip was narrow and deep, which is an indicator that the midrange and the tweeter are out-of-phase in a narrow band.

If I was using passive crossovers, I would have two solutions. The first solution is to trash the horn and start again. The second solution is to increase the rolloff of the midrange, so that it's level is lower at the point where it's interacting with the tweeter.

But with MiniDSP I had another solution; I simply used delay to move the midranges "electronically." And this delay only amounted to a fraction of an inch, but it eliminated the dip.

If it wasn't for MiniDSP, I probably would have had to start again. And considering that it takes a while to build a horn, that could amount to a whole weekend of making sawdust.

Long story short - if you're on the fence about building a Synergy horn, I say go buy yourself some drivers and that QSC horn and a miniDSP. If I can build a Synergy horn in a day, so can you.

That is very interesting. Do you have a build thread with dimensions and the like?

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post #491 of 492 Old 01-13-2014, 12:53 PM
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Majestik, there are ways to design a Synergy horn for passive crossover use but yes there are advantages to using DSP (doesn't need to be a MiniDSP of course). All of the SM and SH Danley Synergy horns are passive (with a DSP option). Which QSC horn are you using? The old HPR152 horn? How are you mounting the mids?

Bexar, the SH50 and SM60F are kind of apples and oranges. The differences are rather clear. The SH models are significantly larger and can handle more power with more low extension. I would compare the SH60 and SM60F since they have the same nominal pattern. The SH60 is 28"x28"x22"deep. The SM60F is 20"x20"x16" deep. That is pretty significant when it comes to how a horn performs. How much does that matter in a home environment? There is really no way to quantify that. You can look at the CLF files for these to compare directivity. Asking Danley would be the best route. I'd also stick to the 60deg nominal directivity. 50deg is pretty narrow.

JPMST, I think the Synergy kits would be much more difficult to do at a price level much cheaper than the built Synergys. The DTS-10's were unique because at the time Danley didn't even sell anything to that spec so it wasn't cannibalizing. A subwoofer is just simpler overall. Would Danley just provide a flat pack and drivers? Crossover? At some point it is just a disassembled version and the market is already very small for DIYers at the likely price levels. To take advantage of the more economical molded line, they would basically just sell it disassembled which is of little benefit to them and likely for not much less than full price.
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post #492 of 492 Old 01-13-2014, 05:22 PM
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Patrick Bateman did a SH using the QSC 152 WG. i believe he used 2 or 3" mids. It is on the huge DIy forum thread on suitable mids for unity or SH.
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