DIY subs - coming from dts-10 - 3k+ budget - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 103 Old 05-17-2011, 02:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 87
If your amp is bridged mono - I think the DTS-10 with the drivers wired parallel might be too low of an impedance load for your amp.

You have a cabinet that is a highly reactive load, it has several impedance minima below 3 ohms, and they happen to fall where there is significant program content. The DTS-10s impedance is below 4 ohms from the high 20s to approximately 40 Hz. It dips below 4 ohms again from 60 to 80 Hz. Your amp will run a 4-ohm load mono. It will struggle with lower impedance loads, especially if you listen loud.

According to Chuck's testing, the EP2500 (precursor to your amp) blew fuses and otherwise struggled when tested at high power into 4 ohms when bridged. The DTS-10 dips at least 35% lower than that, and it is reactive, not resistive. Also, it sounds like you like to listen loud. Might be reaching the limits of the amp...hence the clip indicators lighting up.

An EP will run a 2-ohm stereo load all day long though, so give the amp a load it can work with. The difference between 1000 watts and 2000 watts is only 3 dB, and you're clearly not getting 2000 watts out of your amp currently. 1000 clean watts (in reality - it will be a touch lower because the impedance is not 2 ohms) should drive a DTS north of 115 dB, in a 1 meter, groundplane setting.

In all honesty - voltage is what drives speakers, wattage just drives the sales of amplifiers, but that's the topic of another rant.

Run the cabinet on one side of the amp in stereo mode. In other words, un-bridge it, and leave the other channel unconnected, gain at 0, see if that helps things.

Yes - it will cut the wattage available, but your amp is not delivering the wattage you want right now anyhow. Let the amp work with a load it can drive, it will sound lots better. Since you're halving the current demands on the amp, it can better deliver the voltage required. This should cut the "clipping" you're experiencing and allow your amp to actually deliver more clean power, and you might just get better SPLs.
lilmike is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 103 Old 05-17-2011, 03:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tony123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Upstate, South Carolina
Posts: 4,994
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 25
I can give a laymens report to support Mike's theory. I was running one DTS10 in bridged mode and occassionaly clipping. I added a second DTS10 and run one on each channel of the EP4000 in parallel mode. Have not clipped in 8 months or so...not once. I frequently drive them to 120db at my listening position 19' from the mouth.

The "Twinseltown" Theater
Construction Thread
tony123 is offline  
post #93 of 103 Old 05-17-2011, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
bkruse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

I can give a laymens report to support Mike's theory. I was running one DTS10 in bridged mode and occassionaly clipping. I added a second DTS10 and run one on each channel of the EP4000 in parallel mode. Have not clipped in 8 months or so...not once. I frequently drive them to 120db at my listening position 19' from the mouth.

Lilmike, Tony - thank you so much. Just got the minidsp hooked up, high-pass a 48db/octave BW @12hz and lowpass at 50hz.

Let me tell you - no one should EVER go without a minidsp. It is _incredible_. What a world of difference.

Word of advice to some: Order the 2-way advanced plugin WHEN you order the minidsp (or you will have to wait when you get it in). Also, if ordering the balanced version, be aware that it comes with phoenix connectors:



I just spliced my rca and xlr cable, but had to do some jumping - it describes it in the manual, pretty straight forward.

What's weird is that the center-cable in the RCA and XLR cable ended up being the positive, even though I read otherwise - oh well, works now.

The Danley sounds _INCREDIBLE_ - I plan on building at LEAST 1 more, maybe 3 more and another ep4k.

With the minidsp in place, almost straight out of the box, no EQ just the low-pass and high-pass, I was instantly able to get the ep4k to 100% on the channel-1 actuator with the onkyo at 0db. I then kicked up the onkyo to about 6db before it started clipping.

Thank you all, AGAIN, for helping me. This was a great choice, and I cannot wait. I am very pleased with the DTS-10, it's incredible. Just hooking it straight up and not understanding the fundamentals, like most with a ported/sealed box may do, does not do the sub anywhere near justice.

One more happy customer
bkruse is offline  
post #94 of 103 Old 05-17-2011, 05:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkruse View Post

Lilmike, Tony - thank you so much. .....

Thank you all, AGAIN, for helping me. This was a great choice, and I cannot wait. I am very pleased with the DTS-10, it's incredible. Just hooking it straight up and not understanding the fundamentals, like most with a ported/sealed box may do, does not do the sub anywhere near justice.

One more happy customer

You're welcome. Glad it works.
lilmike is offline  
post #95 of 103 Old 05-18-2011, 08:08 AM
Say No to Auto EQ
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 8,144
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 932 Post(s)
Liked: 1000
I was looking at this cable to make the transition. think it would work?

http://www.pcconnection.com/1/1/1240...23492-001.html

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 

AE TD12x SEOS12 Build

Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread

DIY Emminence Coaxial Surround Thread

beastaudio is online now  
post #96 of 103 Old 05-18-2011, 08:16 AM
Say No to Auto EQ
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 8,144
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 932 Post(s)
Liked: 1000
also, outputs are XLR on the balanced correct?

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 

AE TD12x SEOS12 Build

Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread

DIY Emminence Coaxial Surround Thread

beastaudio is online now  
post #97 of 103 Old 05-18-2011, 12:36 PM
Member
 
raffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

If your amp is bridged mono - I think the DTS-10 with the drivers wired parallel might be too low of an impedance load for your amp.

You have a cabinet that is a highly reactive load, it has several impedance minima below 3 ohms, and they happen to fall where there is significant program content. The DTS-10s impedance is below 4 ohms from the high 20s to approximately 40 Hz. It dips below 4 ohms again from 60 to 80 Hz. Your amp will run a 4-ohm load mono. It will struggle with lower impedance loads, especially if you listen loud.

According to Chuck's testing, the EP2500 (precursor to your amp) blew fuses and otherwise struggled when tested at high power into 4 ohms when bridged. The DTS-10 dips at least 35% lower than that, and it is reactive, not resistive. Also, it sounds like you like to listen loud. Might be reaching the limits of the amp...hence the clip indicators lighting up.

An EP will run a 2-ohm stereo load all day long though, so give the amp a load it can work with. The difference between 1000 watts and 2000 watts is only 3 dB, and you're clearly not getting 2000 watts out of your amp currently. 1000 clean watts (in reality - it will be a touch lower because the impedance is not 2 ohms) should drive a DTS north of 115 dB, in a 1 meter, groundplane setting.

In all honesty - voltage is what drives speakers, wattage just drives the sales of amplifiers, but that's the topic of another rant.

Run the cabinet on one side of the amp in stereo mode. In other words, un-bridge it, and leave the other channel unconnected, gain at 0, see if that helps things.

Yes - it will cut the wattage available, but your amp is not delivering the wattage you want right now anyhow. Let the amp work with a load it can drive, it will sound lots better. Since you're halving the current demands on the amp, it can better deliver the voltage required. This should cut the "clipping" you're experiencing and allow your amp to actually deliver more clean power, and you might just get better SPLs.

To add to this you can also use channel 1 to power one driver and channel 2 to drive the second one. You still put the amp in bridged mode, but wire it to use both channels. Turn the gain all the way down on channel 2 and the channel 1 gain controls both. That is how I have mine hooked up to the EP4000. Ivan had a fairly detailed post on it somewhere in the main DTS-10 thread.

Found Ivan's posts: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...e#post17524705

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...e#post17975021
raffin is offline  
post #98 of 103 Old 05-19-2011, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
bkruse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by raffin View Post
To add to this you can also use channel 1 to power one driver and channel 2 to drive the second one. You still put the amp in bridged mode, but wire it to use both channels. Turn the gain all the way down on channel 2 and the channel 1 gain controls both. That is how I have mine hooked up to the EP4000. Ivan had a fairly detailed post on it somewhere in the main DTS-10 thread.

Found Ivan's posts: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...e#post17524705

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...e#post17975021
You are the man! Let me try this, thank you! Will post my results
bkruse is offline  
post #99 of 103 Old 05-19-2011, 09:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gperkins1973's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,520
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
To add to this you can also use channel 1 to power one driver and channel 2 to drive the second one. You still put the amp in bridged mode, but wire it to use both channels. Turn the gain all the way down on channel 2 and the channel 1 gain controls both. That is how I have mine hooked up to the EP4000. Ivan had a fairly detailed post on it somewhere in the main DTS-10 thread.
Can you still do this if you are running each channel to a single sub. I am wired 2 ohms stereo to each sub. Can I put it in bridged 4 ohms instead and if so would this make any real world difference load wise or less stress on the amp.
gperkins1973 is offline  
post #100 of 103 Old 05-19-2011, 12:11 PM
Member
 
raffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by gperkins1973 View Post

Can you still do this if you are running each channel to a single sub. I am wired 2 ohms stereo to each sub. Can I put it in bridged 4 ohms instead and if so would this make any real world difference load wise or less stress on the amp.

I don't think it would probably make any difference if you're running two subs off of 1 amp because you are still running two drivers off of 1 channel for each sub. The only real difference in your configuration is that you would be reversing the polarity on channel 2 by using bridged mode. The downside is since the gain would be controlled by just channel 1 you wouldn't be able to set different gains for each sub if needed.
raffin is offline  
post #101 of 103 Old 05-19-2011, 12:29 PM
Member
 
raffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkruse View Post

You are the man! Let me try this, thank you! Will post my results

I hope it works as well for you as it does for me.
raffin is offline  
post #102 of 103 Old 11-30-2012, 08:38 AM
Senior Member
 
superedge88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 16
How did everything end up working?
superedge88 is offline  
post #103 of 103 Old 10-16-2013, 11:30 AM
Senior Member
 
stegen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: La Crosse, WI
Posts: 340
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 15
anyone?
stegen is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off