Lilmike's Cinema F-20 - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 1743 Old 09-22-2011, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Just a heads up, the Dayton RSS 390 HF is on sale for $150.

Often it can be had for ~$120 (shipped) on ebay as well.
There was a pair for $250 including shipping a couple of months ago.

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post #902 of 1743 Old 09-22-2011, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

What did you guys use for covering all of the screw holes and evening out the edges prior to primer?

Wood filler? Bondo? What name to look for exactly?

What is available for me to get at Lowes/Home Depot?

I have Had the urge since I finished mine to rubberize it. If I could find an affordable option I would rhino guard it just like a truck bed. :-). I'm not sure what if anything that would do to the sound.

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post #903 of 1743 Old 09-23-2011, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post


The auto bondo or the other stuff.....which brand do you use?

Auto bondo and the 'home' stuff both work great. Make small batches -- it hardens pretty quickly.

-max
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post #904 of 1743 Old 09-23-2011, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

I certainly would not put a trap in the same corner as I am trying to load the sub into - seems like that would sort of defeat the purpose of corner loading.

When I built my THT LP, I asked that question of BFM, and he said it wasn't an issue at all, and in practice it hasn't been - my THT LP lays horizontally behind my screen wall, firing into the left wall about 18-24" away - right into a 24" SuperChunk.
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post #905 of 1743 Old 09-23-2011, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by maxcooper View Post

Auto bondo and the 'home' stuff both work great. Make small batches -- it hardens pretty quickly.

-max

I used it too - I used the 5 minute variety, it hardens too fast really, use 20 minute instead.
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post #906 of 1743 Old 09-25-2011, 07:53 PM
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Should have used Bondo, but the wood filler worked well enough, then Michael brought over a belt sander.

We are getting there. The Sealed Dual Opp MFW15s and the F-20s.

Magic Black paint.

Hopefully have some pics of them installed soon.

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post #907 of 1743 Old 10-01-2011, 01:16 AM
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Just got my Dayton Audio DVC385-88 15" driver and Bash 300w amp tonight. Gonna likely get things started tomorrow by going and getting all my materials and then get things started.
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post #908 of 1743 Old 10-01-2011, 11:37 AM
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Let me know how they work. I am planning to build a pair with the same driver.
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post #909 of 1743 Old 10-02-2011, 08:25 AM
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Has anyone tried the LMS-Rs in the F-20?

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post #910 of 1743 Old 10-02-2011, 10:11 AM
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I just wanna say thanks again to lilmike for this design. It has brought REAL 20Hz performance to many who cannot afford hi-spl, 20Hz, low distortion sound by conventional means (sealed/ported).....

Seeing folks' impressions when they first fire up their F20s reminds me of the first time I fired up a horn sub w/ proper EQ.....and the eye-opening that happened....."so THAT's what it's supposed to sound like!"

JSS
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post #911 of 1743 Old 10-02-2011, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

I just wanna say thanks again to lilmike for this design. It has brought REAL 20Hz performance to many who cannot afford hi-spl, 20Hz, low distortion sound by conventional means (sealed/ported).....

Seeing folks' impressions when they first fire up their F20s reminds me of the first time I fired up a horn sub w/ proper EQ.....and the eye-opening that happened....."so THAT's what it's supposed to sound like!"

JSS

I agree these things are beast and can not be beat for the money.

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post #912 of 1743 Old 10-02-2011, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

Has anyone tried the LMS-Rs in the F-20?

The 15 is not a good fit.
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post #913 of 1743 Old 10-02-2011, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

The 15 is not a good fit.

I see. Thanks for the info Mike. I thought it was worth asking after the DTS swap results.

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post #914 of 1743 Old 10-02-2011, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

I see. Thanks for the info Mike. I thought it was worth asking after the DTS swap results.

The DTS is a tapped horn, the F-20 is a conventional front-loaded offset driver horn. They require very types of different drivers.
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post #915 of 1743 Old 10-02-2011, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

The DTS is a tapped horn, the F-20 is a conventional front-loaded offset driver horn. They require very types of different drivers.

Thanks for the clarification, ya, an oversight on my part.

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post #916 of 1743 Old 10-03-2011, 05:30 PM
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MK pm is full I'll take 2

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post #917 of 1743 Old 10-03-2011, 06:25 PM
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MK pm is full I'll take 2

2 are yours then.

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post #918 of 1743 Old 10-03-2011, 06:29 PM
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2 are yours then.

Clear our your pm's I need to get some info to and from u

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post #919 of 1743 Old 10-03-2011, 07:22 PM
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Clear our your pm's I need to get some info to and from u

Just did

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post #920 of 1743 Old 10-09-2011, 04:19 PM
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Well, after putting in a half-hour here and an hour there for the past week I finally got it all together and running. It's just breaking in now but after running a few quick tests I can say this sub performs just as advertised. Clean, loud and low.

It was quite easy to build and I can't see how you could beat the clean spl for the money one of these costs. Very happy with the performance.

$129 driver
$149 amp
$150 all other materials.

I haven't finished the exterior although I did use pre-finished birch so it's not just sanded plywood sitting in my living room. For a few bucks more I can easily give it a flat black finish to go with the man-cave theme I have going.

Thanks Lilmike for the time you invest in this hobby, it's appreciated.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielson99 View Post

Well, after putting in a half-hour here and an hour there for the past week I finally got it all together and running. It's just breaking in now but after running a few quick tests I can say this sub performs just as advertised. Clean, loud and low.

It was quite easy to build and I can't see how you could beat the clean spl for the money one of these costs. Very happy with the performance.

$129 driver
$149 amp
$150 all other materials.

I haven't finished the exterior although I did use pre-finished birch so it's not just sanded plywood sitting in my living room. For a few bucks more I can easily give it a flat black finish to go with the man-cave theme I have going.

Thanks Lilmike for the time you invest in this hobby, it's appreciated.

Danielson, what amp did you end up getting? Nevermind, I'm assuming it was the Bash300...Get some pictures and more info when you can!
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Danielson, what amp did you end up getting? Nevermind, I'm assuming it was the Bash300...Get some pictures and more info when you can!

Yes it is the 300w Bash amp. I didn't bother taking pics of the build considering it's simplicity and pics already posted by other members builds. Needless to say, it looks exactly like all the others
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post #923 of 1743 Old 10-11-2011, 07:43 PM
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Cool, thanks. Sort of off topic, but is it important that this driver remain vertical? I know at the beginning of this thread, lilmike says the orientation remains fairly vertical...is this imperative? Also, can the horn length be "simply" lengthened to get more extension, or would it require a complete rework of the design? Thanks for any help people can provide...not that the extension is needed, but something I've sort of wondered...

matt
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post #924 of 1743 Old 10-12-2011, 07:56 AM
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It is better that the driver remain vertical, over time, cone sag can occur in a horizontal setup. which with the design isnt advisable anyways since the mouth would either be firing straight up, or into the floor.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #925 of 1743 Old 10-12-2011, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mrgfy6 View Post

Cool, thanks. Sort of off topic, but is it important that this driver remain vertical? I know at the beginning of this thread, lilmike says the orientation remains fairly vertical...is this imperative? Also, can the horn length be "simply" lengthened to get more extension, or would it require a complete rework of the design? Thanks for any help people can provide...not that the extension is needed, but something I've sort of wondered...

matt

Sure, more extension likely means more excursion which means more power which might mean different driver.

If you want a horn that goes lower a good model might be the one on the CSS website seen HERE

I thought about building it until I realized it won't even fit vertically into my room.

As I sit here listening to music on my system I can't help but look over at the F-20 and think to myself "WTF was I thinking!"
Needless to say it's a beast, in size and output.
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post #926 of 1743 Old 10-13-2011, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielson99 View Post

Sure, more extension likely means more excursion which means more power which might mean different driver.

If you want a horn that goes lower a good model might be the one on the CSS website seen HERE

I thought about building it until I realized it won't even fit vertically into my room.

As I sit here listening to music on my system I can't help but look over at the F-20 and think to myself "WTF was I thinking!"
Needless to say it's a beast, in size and output.


corner on that still seems to be 20, maybe 18. MK will vouche as well that the f-20 is capable down to 15hz if multiples are built, perhaps even with a single. LilMike stresses a HPF at 20hz but give it a gradual rolloff, and it should play just as low as that gigantahorn

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #927 of 1743 Old 10-14-2011, 12:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgfy6 View Post

Cool, thanks. Sort of off topic, but is it important that this driver remain vertical? I know at the beginning of this thread, lilmike says the orientation remains fairly vertical...is this imperative? Also, can the horn length be "simply" lengthened to get more extension, or would it require a complete rework of the design? Thanks for any help people can provide...not that the extension is needed, but something I've sort of wondered...

matt

With a big, heavy driver, cone sag can cause issues over time. For that reason, I like to keep the coils on as close to a horizontal axis as I can.

Longer = more extension, which also means the horn gets bigger and more demands are placed on the driver. I already reworked the design as the F-24. Add 4 cubic feet. Gain ~3 Hz of extension. Lose ~3 dB of sensitivity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielson99 View Post

Sure, more extension likely means more excursion which means more power which might mean different driver.

If you want a horn that goes lower a good model might be the one on the CSS website seen HERE

I thought about building it until I realized it won't even fit vertically into my room.

As I sit here listening to music on my system I can't help but look over at the F-20 and think to myself "WTF was I thinking!"
Needless to say it's a beast, in size and output.

The bulk of the plots discussing that CSS horn are not in a 2pi environment. To be fair, it is clearly stated. No doubt that it is a good horn, and it is a clever design, but comparing those plots to what I have posted is not an apples to apples comparison. There is really not much difference between the two when they are compared on a level playing field, maybe a Hz or two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

corner on that still seems to be 20, maybe 18. MK will vouche as well that the f-20 is capable down to 15hz if multiples are built, perhaps even with a single. LilMike stresses a HPF at 20hz but give it a gradual rolloff, and it should play just as low as that gigantahorn

I highpass because I run things hard, and also because when a bandwidth-limited sub is driven with an out of band signal, it results in distortion even if it does not make the driver go clank. I don't like asking drivers to operate outside of their intended passbands. We do the same with our midbasses (we don't ask them to be a subwoofer (well - some of us don't...) or ask them to tweet) and our tweeters (we certainly don't expect them to woof), why treat our subs any differently? It is just much more effective to handle sub crossovers actively rather than passively.
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post #928 of 1743 Old 10-24-2011, 06:59 AM
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I bought 2 of MK's units. I searched the first few pages and could not come up with a weight for one. Did anyone weigh one? I need to know for shipping.

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post #929 of 1743 Old 10-24-2011, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I bought 2 of MK's units. I searched the first few pages and could not come up with a weight for one. Did anyone weigh one? I need to know for shipping.

Mine was 148 lb if I recall.

Yup, 148.
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post #930 of 1743 Old 10-28-2011, 07:37 AM
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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post21133971

Looks like the F20 didn't fare as well as I was expecting over at Subfest2011 (if you disregard value for a moment). The comments seem to follow the line "lots of output, but muddy sound". I just finished physical construction of 2 of these (sans finish), and I'm wondering if anybody has ideas on what might have contributed to the lack of clear sound that the Subfest team observed. The subs were EQ'd fo Subfest, which would seem to reduce basic frequency response anomalies, so I'm wondering if perhaps the lack of cabinet bracing, internal sound absorption, or the raw physics of a horn design (which I won't pretend to understand yet) contribute to distortion in the time domain that could be corrected. I have noticed that the cabinets are not "dead" sounding when I knock on them.
Thoughts?
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