Lilmike's Cinema F-20 - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 1740 Old 03-03-2012, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

Flush trim bit......

What he said. I cut sides oversize by a touch so that I can do just this. Makes the finished cabinet look nicer.
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post #1082 of 1740 Old 03-03-2012, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

What he said. I cut sides oversize by a touch so that I can do just this. Makes the finished cabinet look nicer.

That's just it...this panel is on the interior of two others. If it is 1/8" too long, it does not stick out...it makes the entire top panel an 1/8" too "high". You would have to sand the entire top panel down, as opposed to the 18mm edge that was too long. If it was just the width of the 18mm panel that needed, I wouldn't have said anything.
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post #1083 of 1740 Old 03-04-2012, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

That's just it...this panel is on the interior of two others. If it is 1/8" too long, it does not stick out...it makes the entire top panel an 1/8" too "high". You would have to sand the entire top panel down, as opposed to the 18mm edge that was too long. If it was just the width of the 18mm panel that needed, I wouldn't have said anything.

And....in both the instructions and cutlist - these panels are called out as being trimmed to final size.
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post #1084 of 1740 Old 03-04-2012, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

And....in both the instructions and cutlist - these panels are called out as being trimmed to final size.

I guess I didn't read the instructions very closely this time around. The first one I built really was a breeze.
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post #1085 of 1740 Old 03-04-2012, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

I guess I didn't read the instructions very closely this time around. The first one I built really was a breeze.

You're thinking too hard.... They're really not that hard of a build.

No worries.
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post #1086 of 1740 Old 03-04-2012, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

You're thinking too hard.... They're really not that hard of a build.

No worries.

I can't help it.
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post #1087 of 1740 Old 03-05-2012, 05:44 PM
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Got it finished a few hours ago... Man you guys weren't kidding about this thing. It absolutely blows the Klipsch RW12d away. Now I need to upgrade all my main speakers... lol

Thanks again lilmike for the plans and everyone else that participated in this thread for all the indirect and direct advice.

I cut wood and assembled the cab on Saturday, cleaned it up and sanded everything and mounted the speaker on Sunday, and finished it up tonight after work. It was quite a project but I think it turned out well and the sound makes it completely worth it.
LL
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post #1088 of 1740 Old 03-05-2012, 06:23 PM
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looks good! nice solution for the plate amp as well.
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post #1089 of 1740 Old 03-05-2012, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by thaddeussmith View Post

looks good! nice solution for the plate amp as well.

Thanks man. Your build thread was a great guide for me while building it. Not only did I refer back to it several times I even used pocket screws and double lined the speaker gasket like CECAA850 did on yours. Huge thanks to both of you.

I couldn't really mount the amp in the side of the box for room reasons. I don't know if it shows in the pic but the F20 is actually jammed up against the CV E715 with zero room left over. I'm actually going to have to shift the entertainment center over a few inched so I can get the main back all the way in there and hopefully angle it slightly towards the lp. I actually bought a speakon connector but realized I couldn't use it for the same reason I didn't put the amp in the access panel.

The placement on top of the E715 is just temporary until I get used to it. I'll probably relocate it to the rack where I have everything else. By mounting it in its own box and leaving the back and one of the sides open I'm hoping to get extra airflow to it as well to help keep it cool.

I didn't use MDF like yours but actually wished I had several times when dealing with the cheap ply. I'm a big guy so the extra weight wouldn't really have been a huge issue for me. This is the first time I've built anything in ply so it was an experience for me. It's easier to work with but I cussed it all through the build.

By the way, the pocket screw jig rules! I love it. It's one of those tools you wonder why you never used before. It's definitely a must have for this type of work.
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post #1090 of 1740 Old 03-05-2012, 09:20 PM
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sweet, glad the thread was helpful.

Here's mine in it's final resting place - i plan to paint it later this summer.



and my plate amp solution..

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post #1091 of 1740 Old 03-06-2012, 03:25 AM
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I started to bring it in unpainted to try it out but my wife was freaking out a little when she finally saw it so I figured I better paint it first. I know myself too well, if I had brought it in unfinished it would probably just stay like that. $5 of paint and a $4 roller and it went pretty easily. I put about 4 coats on in about 24 hours. Let's just say I was highly motivated at that point!
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post #1092 of 1740 Old 03-06-2012, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by thaddeussmith View Post

sweet, glad the thread was helpful.

Here's mine in it's final resting place - i plan to paint it later this summer.

and my plate amp solution..

That thing would *almost* disappear if you painted to match wall blue and white.....
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post #1093 of 1740 Old 03-06-2012, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

That thing would *almost* disappear if you painted to match wall blue and white.....

ha, not really trying to make it disappear. (it's black wainscoting, btw) my mains, Klipsch rf-5's, blend in quite well against the black - though they are about 2 ft shorter. I plan to do a fine textured black bed liner, which should make it less "in your face".

although, after the first week of eye shock you really don't mind it much in the room.
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post #1094 of 1740 Old 03-06-2012, 06:43 AM
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Are those doors used often? I like the idea of painting to match the wall and then put a tall potted plant in front of it. It would disappear!

The "Twinseltown" Theater
Construction Thread
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post #1095 of 1740 Old 03-06-2012, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

Are those doors used often? I like the idea of painting to match the wall and then put a tall potted plant in front of it. It would disappear!

Subwoofer camo.
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post #1096 of 1740 Old 03-06-2012, 08:34 AM
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Are those doors used often? I like the idea of painting to match the wall and then put a tall potted plant in front of it. It would disappear!

haha, yes they are. the door directly in front is my media closet/gun storage. We bought this house back in November and have a ton of renovations to do still. The doors will be painted black this summer to match the wainscoting and I still have a ton of moulding to put up. We have our first daughter due any day now, so focus had to shift around January on nursery and other details.
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post #1097 of 1740 Old 03-07-2012, 04:51 PM
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@Mike: Do you see any issues with using two Behringer EPQ1200 amps to run each pair of F20s using the 390HF? This amp is supposedly rated at 425 Watts x 2 @ 4ohm. I thought I had settled on the EPQ2000 and EPQ1200 to run everything, but a final stretch of research is telling me that no one likes Behringer's pro equipment? I must say I am new to the pro-amp arena, so I really don't have any brand knowledge.

It appears that the Crown alternative would be their XLS402. Is one truly superior to the other?

Crown XLS402 @ 450 Watts x 2 @ 4ohm: $399
Crown XLS202 @ 300 Watts x 2 @ 4ohm: $249
Behringer EPQ1200 @ 425 Watts x 2 @ 4ohm: $269
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post #1098 of 1740 Old 03-07-2012, 05:32 PM
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Nothing wrong with using Behringer amps for home use. Some pro guys aren't keen on Behringer in general, apparently they aren't quite as reliable for pro use where they will get lugged around, compared to much more expensive options. No problems at home.

Just don't use A500
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post #1099 of 1740 Old 03-07-2012, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by paulspencer View Post

Nothing wrong with using Behringer amps for home use. Some pro guys aren't keen on Behringer in general, apparently they aren't quite as reliable for pro use where they will get lugged around, compared to much more expensive options. No problems at home.

Just don't use A500

What about use in a 5,000 Watt; 19 Speaker Dinner Theater? While it may not be Carnegie Hall, its also hardly your standard "home use".
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post #1100 of 1740 Old 03-07-2012, 06:41 PM
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Packing the amps up after every concert is hard on them. For fixed installation they really don't get abuse. Keep 'em cool and you'll be alright.

High Desert Theater - work in progress
Building Bass - Subs

Surrounds - Easy as Pi

Storage - unRAID unDELL

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post #1101 of 1740 Old 03-07-2012, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

@Mike: Do you see any issues with using two Behringer EPQ1200 amps to run each pair of F20s using the 390HF? This amp is supposedly rated at 425 Watts x 2 @ 4ohm. I thought I had settled on the EPQ2000 and EPQ1200 to run everything, but a final stretch of research is telling me that no one likes Behringer's pro equipment? I must say I am new to the pro-amp arena, so I really don't have any brand knowledge.

It appears that the Crown alternative would be their XLS402. Is one truly superior to the other?

Crown XLS402 @ 450 Watts x 2 @ 4ohm: $399
Crown XLS202 @ 300 Watts x 2 @ 4ohm: $249
Behringer EPQ1200 @ 425 Watts x 2 @ 4ohm: $269

No experience with any of them, so I can't really recommend anything. I've had good luck with the Behringer gear I do own though.

There is always something better out there. Behringer may not be Crown or QSC, but typically works well enough for most folks.

Also - keep in mind that the real SPL difference between 300 and 425 watts is not that significant, less than 2 dB.
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post #1102 of 1740 Old 03-07-2012, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

No experience with any of them, so I can't really recommend anything. I've had good luck with the Behringer gear I do own though.

There is always something better out there. Behringer may not be Crown or QSC, but typically works well enough for most folks.

Also - keep in mind that the real SPL difference between 300 and 425 watts is not that significant, less than 2 dB.

I was thinking more along the lines of having the 400 - 500 watts, not for the extra power, but for the extra headroom. I do not plan to run more than 300W through each of the F20s, but I also don't want my amp to struggle to deliver that 300W.
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post #1103 of 1740 Old 03-07-2012, 08:56 PM
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I can't speak for your particular F20 but the one that I built only needed about 80w to reach driver xmax of 10mm, and this required a 25 Hz high pass even with such a modest amount of power. Headroom is always good to have of course, but if you have one that is similar in power demands, then 300 vs 425w is academic.

Quote:


What about use in a 5,000 Watt; 19 Speaker Dinner Theater? While it may not be Carnegie Hall, its also hardly your standard "home use".

In a fixed install I don't see a likely problem if installed sensibly. Even that application is not the most demanding. An amp driving subs will see a relatively light duty cycle. Plate amps designed for subs are less robust thermally because they count on this to some degree. Try driving a plate amp to its limits with heavy bass music for hours on end. You will get some of them to shut down thermally quite quickly. With a pro amp you aren't likely to have a problem. As mentioned, you might have a problem when they are getting moved around and take some punishment.
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post #1104 of 1740 Old 03-08-2012, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

@Mike: Do you see any issues with using two Behringer EPQ1200 amps to run each pair of F20s using the 390HF? This amp is supposedly rated at 425 Watts x 2 @ 4ohm. I thought I had settled on the EPQ2000 and EPQ1200 to run everything, but a final stretch of research is telling me that no one likes Behringer's pro equipment? I must say I am new to the pro-amp arena, so I really don't have any brand knowledge.

It appears that the Crown alternative would be their XLS402. Is one truly superior to the other?

Crown XLS402 @ 450 Watts x 2 @ 4ohm: $399
Crown XLS202 @ 300 Watts x 2 @ 4ohm: $249
Behringer EPQ1200 @ 425 Watts x 2 @ 4ohm: $269

Remember their published power specs are likely embellished.

Consult the measuring amplifier thread for more realistic amp output numbers.
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how well would a dayton sa1000 power a pair of these? I am buying Huskeromaha's pair and I believe they have the mfw15 drivers in them. Twisted together they should present a 4ohm load to the amp. Each speaker should see 500w of power, and I can dial down the gain accordingly. I'm just on the fence whether I should sell my sa1000 or try to find another amp.
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post #1106 of 1740 Old 03-08-2012, 07:59 AM
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how well would a dayton sa1000 power a pair of these? I am buying Huskeromaha's pair and I believe they have the mfw15 drivers in them. Twisted together they should present a 4ohm load to the amp. Each speaker should see 500w of power, and I can dial down the gain accordingly. I'm just on the fence whether I should sell my sa1000 or try to find another amp.

How you gonna get 4ohm with two 4ohm drivers? I think the SA1000 is essentially a mono amp despite stereo connections......
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If I was going to run two from an sa1000 I would probably series them together on the single channel and run it at 8 ohms with the gain turned about halfway down. That would about 500 watts to each speaker and be relatively safe. There are several of us running one with a 500 watt plate amp. I keep it turned down below half and it fills the house with bass. It's a great design.
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post #1108 of 1740 Old 03-08-2012, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ovrrdrive View Post

If I was going to run two from an sa1000 I would probably series them together on the single channel and run it at 8 ohms with the gain turned about halfway down. That would about 500 watts to each speaker and be relatively safe. There are several of us running one with a 500 watt plate amp. I keep it turned down below half and it fills the house with bass. It's a great design.

i'm using the oAudio 500w plate amp, I'm afraid what will happen to my house if i push the gain past 1/2 way. I usually keep it between 3 and 5 o'clock position and it is plenty loud.

while the power is nice, i mostly got this one because of the integrated and adjustable HPF.
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post #1109 of 1740 Old 03-08-2012, 10:42 AM
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I believe I will use the Crown XLS 1000 for my subs. It is rated at 350W x 2 @ 4 ohms. It also has built in high and low pass filters (50Hz - 3kHz), and is only $299. Two of these amps to run my four F20s ... What do you think? Do I need more headroom to run 300W through a 500W 390HF driver?
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post #1110 of 1740 Old 03-08-2012, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovrrdrive View Post

If I was going to run two from an sa1000 I would probably series them together on the single channel and run it at 8 ohms with the gain turned about halfway down. That would about 500 watts to each speaker and be relatively safe. There are several of us running one with a 500 watt plate amp. I keep it turned down below half and it fills the house with bass. It's a great design.

SA1000 specs are 497w into 8ohms so expect about 400w continuous or 200w per driver.
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