Lilmike's Cinema F-20 - Page 58 - AVS Forum
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post #1711 of 1717 Old 05-04-2014, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JimDaBomb View Post

Not being too knowledgeable in all of this.. what would be the major difference in using any old 15" driver, compared to the MFW-15 in this enclosure.. I know you have to worry about Q ratings and such in most enclosures, but does it matter as much in a horn? I basically want something clean and musical, not one note bass.. this is for a two channel music setup so I do want punchy bass of course, but don't need bone crushing bass down below 20hz or anything like that.

I encourage you to buy an SI 15 and be done with it. You are over complicating things.
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post #1712 of 1717 Old 07-18-2014, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by the-jessman View Post
Another thing to think about, and this is purely my opinion, but if this is for a strictly music system a horn loaded sub may not be the best choice. Horns don't have the flatest response compared to directly radiating designs like ported boxes, TQWT, sealed, etc. They also tend to have higher and widely varying group delay. If it were me I'd be looking at something like a large low tuned (LLT) ported enclosure or a TQWT. A Martysub, for example, has less than 10 ms of group delay once you get above 30 Hz and has very even response up to 130 Hz or so. Its not quite as efficient as a horn, but its a lot better than the sealed 12" you have now.

Help me out here. I have been reading the build threads for various horns and sealed, and seen commentary about the martysubs:

For someone building a 18'x22' room on a second floor for his home theater. Not caring about music performance at all, wanting extension at least to 20hz, then second priority punchiness, what type of enclosure is for me?

I mean, does the delay factor you mention above at really low frequencies end up affecting performance of say the F-20 or microwrecker or equiv. a lot? Were you making the case that for music it's more important for there not to be delay than audio that synchronizes with video? I am confused, and want a recommendation based on my parameters above please.

Thanks so much!
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post #1713 of 1717 Old 07-18-2014, 12:20 PM
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you'd be happy with either the wrecker/F20 horns or a ported sub (aka marty)

Ported subs are easier to design and build, and have almost all the advantages of horn loaded subs. Horns are cleaner and more effortless in the range they are designed for usually, but you might need to tame them a bit with good set up or EQ. Horns are loudest, ported would be second loudest. Both are louder than sealed subs.

Everyone that has tried one of these designs seems to really like it, and the majority of people have larger spaces like yours. I'd take that info and suggest you'd be happy. But again, you'd be happy with the ported sub too.

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post #1714 of 1717 Old 07-18-2014, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by the-jessman View Post
Like stormwind said, horns can be very picky about drivers. Compare this response graph to the SI graph above:

This is the response from a Sundown SA-15. Its a quality driver and performs well, just not in horns. Peaky response like this is what you can get if you don't use the right driver.

Another thing to think about, and this is purely my opinion, but if this is for a strictly music system a horn loaded sub may not be the best choice. Horns don't have the flatest response compared to directly radiating designs like ported boxes, TQWT, sealed, etc. They also tend to have higher and widely varying group delay. If it were me I'd be looking at something like a large low tuned (LLT) ported enclosure or a TQWT. A Martysub, for example, has less than 10 ms of group delay once you get above 30 Hz and has very even response up to 130 Hz or so. Its not quite as efficient as a horn, but its a lot better than the sealed 12" you have now.
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
you'd be happy with either the wrecker/F20 horns or a ported sub (aka marty)

Ported subs are easier to design and build, and have almost all the advantages of horn loaded subs. Horns are cleaner and more effortless in the range they are designed for usually, but you might need to tame them a bit with good set up or EQ. Horns are loudest, ported would be second loudest. Both are louder than sealed subs.

Everyone that has tried one of these designs seems to really like it, and the majority of people have larger spaces like yours. I'd take that info and suggest you'd be happy. But again, you'd be happy with the ported sub too.
Thanks M,

I guess after all I've read I feel comfortable that a sealed box will give me the extension and smoothness, but being in my space when other guys talk about how monster the horns performed in their LARGER spaces I become concerned that I would build something that would blow me out of the water. But I suppose I could always tame it in the EQ if it ever got to the point that the performance was disassembling my house.

Another way of confirming what I am thinking would be for me to ask: does there ever come an instance where the sealed box is preferable given these priorities I listed before to the horn or martysub designs due to the room's size being too small?

A follow up questions: Microwrecker drops off right there around 20hz. From a guy that currently owns a single M&K V-1250 THX sealed subwoofer, which I believe drops off well above that, am I going to care? Will I simply be blown away by the extension to 20? Martysub not as attractive to me for some reason? Martysub more responsive than horns make for better HT sub?
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post #1715 of 1717 Old 07-18-2014, 05:32 PM
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You could go all the way with a gjallerhorn

It's a total monster. And usable output at 10hz.
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post #1716 of 1717 Old 07-19-2014, 05:26 AM
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Micro Wrecker is a fun sub. Needs a Hpass at 17hz and can get very loud. While it rolls off at 20hz with room gain you wont notice it. Ported subs are a good option also. Just a matter of how much room you have. If you have the room and want 15hz and up go horned. If your limited on room go ported. If you have minimal room sealed. I like the sensitivity of horned subs. BUT power is cheap these days so that doesnt mean much to all.
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post #1717 of 1717 Old 07-19-2014, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
Micro Wrecker is a fun sub. Needs a Hpass at 17hz and can get very loud. While it rolls off at 20hz with room gain you wont notice it. Ported subs are a good option also. Just a matter of how much room you have. If you have the room and want 15hz and up go horned. If your limited on room go ported. If you have minimal room sealed. I like the sensitivity of horned subs. BUT power is cheap these days so that doesnt mean much to all.
Thank you,

I have tried to read so many threads. About horned and ported and sealed. I feel like I have learned so much. But ultimately, I am no expert, and figuring out which fit is best for me is so hard. Unless I had the resources to try them all, which I do not. So with that caveat, I think that I like the idea of the tapped horn. Clearly there are some designs that are definitive in their capabilities. I am currently hung on one snag; room.

I am redesigning the equipment and trying to go all DIY as much as possible in this existing home theater room that is in a home I purchased last year. The room sitting area is 16' wide x 14' deep. Not the size I would like but it's what I've got. On the screen wall there is a bump out on the right corner to frame in a chimney running from the fireplace on the 1st floor. the depth of that bump out is 23". I think that I would like to create a screen wall in this depth and let it hide the subs and LCRs. So since I'm a n00b I don't feel comfortable designing my own enclosures, and wondered if there is something out there somebody is aware of that is only 23" deep at whatever height or width?

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Last edited by skipford; 07-19-2014 at 09:45 AM.
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