Lilmike's Cinema F-20 - Page 60 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1771 of 1799 Old 03-29-2015, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post
Like tsloms, I chuck the tap into my cordless drill and chase each insert. I only chase mine after they're installed in the baffle though.

With my cordless, I set the clutch pretty loose so that I don't snap the tap if it binds.

Installation is really easy once you have a properly-sized pilot hole and a use proper sized hex tip on a drill or impact driver.
When I am working with new type of ply or a new size of inserts, I always test-install a few on some scrap, that way I can get the pilot hole diameter just right.
When you use those style threaded inserts with the flange, which side of the panel do you install them into? Do you use them so the bolt is inserted from the flange side or the non-flange side? I don't really know the best way to phrase that question so hopefully you get my meaning.

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post #1772 of 1799 Old 03-29-2015, 05:44 PM
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Install 'em from the back. That way the shoulder will pull it tighter into the baffle when the bolts are installed.
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post #1773 of 1799 Old 03-29-2015, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan.lynch View Post
Install 'em from the back. That way the shoulder will pull it tighter into the baffle when the bolts are installed.
That's the way I've done it in the past, and for the same reason. The only problem I've run into doing it that way is if the the threads aren't totally clean and the insert sticks to the bolt it unscrews the insert out of the panel. I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this.

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post #1774 of 1799 Old 03-29-2015, 07:47 PM
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Hence the reason for the tap and putting a dab of PL on the insert before you put it in. If you do those two things you shouldn't have any issues unless you happen to cross thread the bolt.
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post #1775 of 1799 Old 07-05-2015, 11:48 PM
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I have Baltic birch plywood for two F-20's cut, one has been sitting partially assembled on the work bench for a month, other pile standing patiently.


#2 waiting:



Got some bracing done today, went with the Swiss cheese I saw a few pages back.





Mounting is a single steel ring tapped with 8 holes.





With the JBL 1514 test fit.




No promises when I get back to it. Still need to cut the access, and buy paint to get inside the mouth done before I close up the other side panel.
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post #1776 of 1799 Old 07-06-2015, 12:20 AM
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Looking good!

Using the steel ring for a mounting flange in an interesting way to do it. It looks very nicely done.

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post #1777 of 1799 Old 07-08-2015, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
is there a post with the "drivers that work"?

another guy raised a question about the Dayton hf and the jbl gt1514 which sent me back looking at this.

we discussed that driver a while ago, but here it is again with voltage levels set for 1 watt.

black line is 1514d, gray line is mfw


[/IMG][/URL]
I have a build with the JBL 1514 started, with the above modeled response - where do you suggest crossing the subs to the mains?

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post #1778 of 1799 Old 07-08-2015, 01:45 PM
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answered in your other thread.

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post #1779 of 1799 Old 07-10-2015, 08:51 PM
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Well it's going to be another black box.
I tried the Restore 4x, so far very impressed with the finish.
This is one coat, applied with a foam roller. Used up maybe a quart or so.

I'll see how it sets up overnight, tomorrow give it a light sand to get off the gnats and mosquitoes that are dried into it, and give it a 2nd coat. But one coat is good coverage already.





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post #1780 of 1799 Old 07-11-2015, 02:14 AM
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ha! nice.

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post #1781 of 1799 Old 07-12-2015, 10:33 AM
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Love the tapped steel mounting ring, no worries about a threaded insert spinning out.

Good to see another F-20 build.

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post #1782 of 1799 Old 07-12-2015, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
Love the tapped steel mounting ring, no worries about a threaded insert spinning out.

Good to see another F-20 build.
It's the most bullet proof way I could think of to install a driver. My only downside I thought of was that if I do want to upgrade/change the sub and the basket holes are far off, I am screwed trying to drill and tap new threads. Two or three of the holes are so close to the side panels that I couldn't get a drill in there square.

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post #1783 of 1799 Old 07-12-2015, 02:33 PM
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post #1784 of 1799 Old 07-13-2015, 10:50 AM
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Just now getting around to building this sub. I have most of the pieces cut and rabbited. Also have the folds drawn on. Going to start assembly in the next day or so. I have a tempest x2 that I was going to use but it seems like a waste of a really capable sub (since this design was using a very 'cheap' sub, I can use the tempest in another build). What can I buy that is currently available (the mfw 15 is not available) that models similarly?
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post #1785 of 1799 Old 07-13-2015, 12:09 PM
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I actually built my F-20 a little over a year ago, and it was a bit different than most, but turned out to be a great sub.
I used a 12" Dayton Titanic MK II. I'll attach the specs below. It turned out to be a great fit. Even though I have it slightly underpowered at the moment, it's more than enough volume. My current home is too small and it's not a good look for a fridge size box in there. It's been at a friend's house in his son's room. I still occasionally get compliments on how cool it is from his friends. I make sure to give all the credit to lilmike.
I built it (per lilmike's recommendation) at 13" wide on the internal parts, and cut the driver hole approximately 1.5" closer to the end for the 12" driver. Everything else was used just like the basic F-20 plans.

That's groundplane 1M spl at 500 watts. In-band, the driver is within xmech, just over xmax.




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post #1786 of 1799 Old 07-13-2015, 12:31 PM
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Mostly done in these pics, but at least there won't be any "Pics or it didn't happen" posts.
We just left it unpainted/finished.
Driving it with a BASH 300 from PE. Speakon connectors and cable are super simple to wire up and use.
Very exceptional for an under $300 sub! Barely more $$ than my BIC H100 and flat out destroys it (except for size).






Can we expect anymore lilmike designs coming up anytime soon?
Giving some serious thought about building a lilwrecker next.

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post #1787 of 1799 Old 07-15-2015, 08:08 AM
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Figured I'd show off the progress for my f-20, we're putting in a tempest x2 and it will be powered by a crown xls1000.
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post #1788 of 1799 Old 08-24-2015, 07:41 AM
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Anyone know where I can buy a driver that will work well with this? I currently have the tempest x2 installed in my f-20 and would love to use that driver in another build.
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post #1789 of 1799 Old 08-24-2015, 08:54 AM
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JBL GTO 1514D Seems to be a very good match for this design.
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post #1790 of 1799 Old 09-19-2015, 09:52 PM
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here is the 390HF driver (black) vs. the original design mfw (gray). definitely a plug-n-play. probably already covered, but I didn't have it in hornresp and was curious so figured I'd share just in case... :-)


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post #1791 of 1799 Old 11-28-2015, 07:07 PM
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Tested and approved driver list for the F-20

Hey all, I just finished my second Picowrecker using the Alpine SWS-10D2 drivers. Love the subs and now am thinking about building a single F-20!for my media room. Now I need to find a suitable driver. I know this was designed around the now discontinued MFW driver and the PE DVC 15" has been discontinued. I searched through this thread and found a few other drivers mentioned, but nothing too specific. Lilmike, is there a tested or approved driver list for this design? Not looking for the cheapest driver (necessarily), just want a driver that will allow the enclosure to work to its potential.

Thanks all in advance
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post #1792 of 1799 Old 11-28-2015, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brookhart995 View Post
...Now I need to find a suitable driver. I know this was designed around the now discontinued MFW driver and the PE DVC 15" has been discontinued. I searched through this thread and found a few other drivers mentioned, but nothing too specific. Lilmike, is there a tested or approved driver list for this design? Not looking for the cheapest driver (necessarily), just want a driver that will allow the enclosure to work to its potential.

Thanks all in advance
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
yes. surprisingly, the jbl models slightly better than the mfw15 in the f20, so it should work well.
I went with the JBL GTO 1514. Very happy, a monster. I believe it is also now discontinued. But a quick ebay and online search still shows them available for purchase.
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post #1793 of 1799 Old 11-28-2015, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brookhart995 View Post
Hey all, I just finished my second Picowrecker using the Alpine SWS-10D2 drivers. Love the subs and now am thinking about building a single F-20!for my media room. Now I need to find a suitable driver. I know this was designed around the now discontinued MFW driver and the PE DVC 15" has been discontinued. I searched through this thread and found a few other drivers mentioned, but nothing too specific. Lilmike, is there a tested or approved driver list for this design? Not looking for the cheapest driver (necessarily), just want a driver that will allow the enclosure to work to its potential.

Thanks all in advance
From memory (stock width):

MFW-15*
Dayton DVC 385-88
Exodus Tempest X2 15
Dayton RSS390-HF
Dayton Ultimax 15*
JBL GTO 15

* denotes a driver I have personally tested.

Though, I'll be honest, I'd build 4 PicoWreckers...
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post #1794 of 1799 Old Yesterday, 02:02 PM
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Back from the dead...Literally

I cooked my poor DVC 385-88 in "Macho Nacho" over a year ago. There it sat, dead, taking up space in my garage. Finally, I decided to dive in and replace the driver. Argh..the DVC 385-88 was discontinued!

I gave my wife the sad eyes, and she let me get the RSS390-HF. I installed it this weekend, and am back to rattling paint cans off the shelves.

Just wanted to thank lilmike again. I really love this speaker.

If (when) I cook this driver, I'll be here for lilmike's latest designs.



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post #1795 of 1799 Old Yesterday, 03:25 PM
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I was bummed to see that speaker discontinued too. I just fired up my Adire Tempest that had been sitting for almost 10 years. The Dayton is based on that driver, and I thought if I blew it I could replace it with the Dayton. Well....
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post #1796 of 1799 Old Yesterday, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad1377 View Post
Back from the dead...Literally

I cooked my poor DVC 385-88 in "Macho Nacho" over a year ago. There it sat, dead, taking up space in my garage. Finally, I decided to dive in and replace the driver. Argh..the DVC 385-88 was discontinued!

I gave my wife the sad eyes, and she let me get the RSS390-HF. I installed it this weekend, and am back to rattling paint cans off the shelves.

Do you have any thoughts on which driver sounded better? Any measurements? How much juice did it take to cook the DVC? I have one in a THTLP and have been testing it aggressively. I am considering trying out the HF just to see how it compares.

The new specs that Dayton released for the DVC are not nearly as good as the old specs. Not a good thing for THT lovers. I'm not sure how that effects the F20 though.
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post #1797 of 1799 Old Today, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samps View Post
Do you have any thoughts on which driver sounded better? Any measurements? How much juice did it take to cook the DVC? I have one in a THTLP and have been testing it aggressively. I am considering trying out the HF just to see how it compares.

The new specs that Dayton released for the DVC are not nearly as good as the old specs. Not a good thing for THT lovers. I'm not sure how that effects the F20 though.
Hmm - my garage is not really a critical listening environment, and a year between listening to the two drivers makes it tough to do an A-B comparison. Maybe the RSS390-HF doesn't seem to go as deep, but it's not really broken in, I'm using a different amp, crossover etc. etc. I'm not much help here, maybe after a few weekends I'll have a better feel for it.

I ran the DVC with an old Electrovoice AP2600a pro amp (300 WPC into 8 ohms.) I abused the heck out of the DVC, and often ran with the clipping lights flashing frequently. Honestly, I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. The speaker, when I pulled it, still looked new and there was no grunchy scraping in the voice coil as I've had with other blown speakers. I can't quite bear to cut it apart just yet to see what really got cooked inside.

The RSS390-HF is visually a much better speaker. Better frame, bigger/deeper motor, bigger surround, more power handling (at the cost of some efficiency) - but I'm now running it with a Crown XLS1500, so I'm guessing chances of cooking it are about the same. Ill just need to be more carefull with the volume and gain after a few drinks.
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post #1798 of 1799 Old Today, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad1377 View Post
I ran the DVC with an old Electrovoice AP2600a pro amp (300 WPC into 8 ohms.) I abused the heck out of the DVC, and often ran with the clipping lights flashing frequently. Honestly, I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. The speaker, when I pulled it, still looked new and there was no grunchy scraping in the voice coil as I've had with other blown speakers. I can't quite bear to cut it apart just yet to see what really got cooked inside.
Is there anyone that could fix it?
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post #1799 of 1799 Old Today, 03:55 PM
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I'm wondering if it failed mechanically either by something just falling apart from lots of use or by bottoming out. 300 watts wouldn't normally cook it I don't think.
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