Paradigm Sub 2 Clone? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 42 Old 04-22-2011, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Has anyone ever attempted to create a Paradigm Sub 2 clone with TC Sounds Epic 10 drivers? 6 of those in a 5 ft^3 box outputs a tad bit more than a single LMS 5400 in a 4 ft^3 box @ 5Hz and about 1.3dB more at 50Hz+ all with lower group delay. Both enclosures are fed 1500W to keep excursion limited down 3Hz. The cool thing with this is that it could be expanded to hold 9 drivers by just increasing the enclosure height. This will give performance 1.5 times that of a single LMS 5400 and good for someone looking for something between 1 and 2 LMS 5400.

Cost:
Epic 10
6 x $161.73 = $970.38
9 x $161.73 = $1455.57

LMS 5400
1 x $899 = $899
2 x $899 = $1798

Not to mention, the hexagonal enclosure would look unique and be rock solid stable.
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post #2 of 42 Old 04-22-2011, 07:43 PM
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With that many drivers, it would be better to build multiple enclosures and place them throughout the room.

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post #3 of 42 Old 04-22-2011, 11:13 PM
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Sometimes people will accept only one sub in the room

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post #4 of 42 Old 04-23-2011, 01:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Well this would be a cost no objective build where eventually more subs will be added. In terms of value, space, and viability, I feel this build works.

How does a Sub 2 compare with an LMS 5400? Are there any other drivers that would work better than the TC Sounds?
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post #5 of 42 Old 04-23-2011, 05:54 AM
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FWIW, going from 6 to 9 isnt really going to give you that much more headroom.

You have to ask if 6 will give you max SPL beyond your needs or not.

I would say build two Sub2 clones, 6 drivers each.


Yes, someone needs to clone that design. Its a very, very impressive sub for its size.

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post #6 of 42 Old 04-23-2011, 07:32 AM
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Did I see this chart right, 110db at 20hz with around 2.5% THD?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcUIo...1&feature=fvwp
That's good regardless if it's a consumer product or not.

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post #7 of 42 Old 04-23-2011, 07:35 AM
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Just build a dual opposed LMS, it should come close to putting out 3-4 times what the Sub 2 will with surface area and stroke... I looked at doing something like a Sub 2 clone before I went with my XLERATORS.

You could build 2 of those for less then the price of a Sub 2...


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post #8 of 42 Old 04-23-2011, 10:31 PM
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If anything, a sub 2 clone would just be a cool project to do.

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post #9 of 42 Old 04-23-2011, 11:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Just build a dual opposed LMS, it should come close to putting out 3-4 times what the Sub 2 will with surface area and stroke... I looked at doing something like a Sub 2 clone before I went with my XLERATORS.

You could build 2 of those for less then the price of a Sub 2...

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

If anything, a sub 2 clone would just be a cool project to do.

Yea, it would be something unique, at least the first one will.

I wonder how the Epic 10 compares to the LMS 5400 in the 80 to 150Hz range. The Epic 10 has a higher Le, but it's also a smaller driver...

I'm really curious if it would sound different than an LMS 5400.
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post #10 of 42 Old 12-09-2011, 03:07 PM
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As I'm not handy enough myself I had someone build me one, more pictures soon. The drivers will be 6 - JL audio 10W3V3 with a behringer iNuke 3000DSP as amplifier
LL
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post #11 of 42 Old 12-09-2011, 03:32 PM
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Nice cabinet work. What's the internal volume?
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post #12 of 42 Old 12-09-2011, 04:32 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexagonal_prism

probably around 3 cubic feet.

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post #13 of 42 Old 12-09-2011, 04:52 PM
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Good choice of driver. I'm also using Epic10s but in a pair of dual opposed, side firing base bins. Try/simulate a smaller box volume and yours will take more power without bottoming out. QTC of .635 is what I settled on. With 2000W into a pair, they cross Xmax-linear at 22 Hz and never get near Xmech. I chose Epic10s because they needed the least volume. Anything else of comparable or better performance needs >= 2x the volume and costs a good bit more. With boundary reinforcement and room gain, the Epic10s should be more than good enough. I got mine at the PE Black Friday sale for $139. ea.
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post #14 of 42 Old 12-10-2011, 06:10 AM
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Around 3 cubic feet is correct. And I'm not using the TC epic 10, i'm using the JL 10W3V3 btw. The epic 10 is more powerful but I'm confident the JL's will do fine in this enclosure as they don't need much internal volume to work well. Also even with the JL's the sub will still have as much displacement as one with two high excursion 15" units. Plus it looks cool
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post #15 of 42 Old 12-10-2011, 07:38 AM
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re' reducing volume I was referring to the original post and should have said so, given the context. I ran a quick simulation for the JL's and I confrm your conclusions - 3 cu.ft. is good and the results, with corner reinforcement and equalization, will be impressive! The biggest difference between the Epic10's and the JLs is that the almost 2x higher excursion capability of the Epics make them almost immune to damage from overexcursion. With the JLs you may need the peak limiters on the iNuke for protection.
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post #16 of 42 Old 12-10-2011, 12:01 PM
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q is a little high at 0.87, but that is within the realm of reason. give up a little extra spl in the ulf for much better driver protection. not a bad strategy.

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post #17 of 42 Old 12-11-2011, 04:42 AM
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more pictures
LL
LL
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post #18 of 42 Old 12-13-2011, 07:31 AM
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first coat + sanding
LL
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post #19 of 42 Old 12-13-2011, 10:18 AM
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Wow TimVG, that's looking pretty nice.
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post #20 of 42 Old 12-14-2011, 01:08 PM
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Thanks, although I shouldn't take credit as I'm not building it myself :x

The goal is usable output to somewhere between 16-20hz. It's a pretty compact subwoofer for housing 6 ten inch drivers. I don't know if it'll match a single LMS 5400 down low (could someone simulate?), but it should perform good nonetheless.
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post #21 of 42 Old 12-17-2011, 01:40 PM
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It's up and running, I need some boosting below 30hz because of my room, and because of that I'm going to need a bigger amp. I'm going for the iNuke 6000DSP. I have it filtered at 20hz now or the amp starts clipping pretty soon with loud -20hz content. But the sub itself has power to spare, the cones were hardly moving when the amp went into safety.
LL
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post #22 of 42 Old 12-17-2011, 03:41 PM
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SWEET - now post all parts costs so you can throw that in the faces of all the Paradigm Sub 2 owners!



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post #23 of 42 Old 12-17-2011, 04:19 PM
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does the sub 2 really put out 9000w and digs down to 7hz?

or is it just the typical marketing bs?
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post #24 of 42 Old 12-17-2011, 05:02 PM
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hey tim, that is a really cool looking sub. nice!

"...or is it just the typical marketing bs?"

for a long time paradigm has been using pseudo in room responses, not complete bs, but not comparable to ground plane.

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post #25 of 42 Old 12-18-2011, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

SWEET - now post all parts costs so you can throw that in the faces of all the Paradigm Sub 2 owners!


Hehe, well the difference is substantial, even though I had the cabinet made for me. I could probably have 4 of these and still save money over a sub 2.

You have to realize that this sub isn't the most cost efficient design as well, the drivers alone cost about $900 on their own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

does the sub 2 really put out 9000w and digs down to 7hz?

or is it just the typical marketing bs?

The extension will depend on the room it's placed in. But the drivers in the real sub 2 are probably more capable than the ones' I used, and the iNuke3000 is too little to fully power it. The Sub2's amp is 4500rms so I don't think they're lying.
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post #26 of 42 Old 04-27-2012, 07:52 AM
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I'm now powering my clone with another clone, an FP14000+. The iNuke provided way too little power to drive this sub. It works great now, with usable response well into the single digits (with a 12hz/24db HPF) and enough reserve to play even the heaviest of bass flicks with -10 on the receiver. As I also have a captivator S2 on order, it'll be fun to compare and later integrate both in my setup.
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post #27 of 42 Old 04-27-2012, 07:49 PM
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That is one really nice looking sub.

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post #28 of 42 Old 04-27-2012, 07:57 PM
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Very nice! Audioholics just recently reviewed the Sub 2, here's something you can compare your sub to



http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...sub-2-analysis


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post #29 of 42 Old 04-27-2012, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
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Very nice! Audioholics just recently reviewed the Sub 2, here's something you can compare your sub to

That's some pretty heavy compression at reasonably low levels!
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post #30 of 42 Old 04-27-2012, 08:51 PM
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Why not just build a tapped horn and make the Sub 2 cry like a little girl?
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