How to set gain structure properly? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 80 Old 04-23-2011, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
pbc
AVS Special Member
 
pbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,357
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Keep meaning to get to setting the gain structure in my system but haven't found the time to research how to do it correctly. Figured I'd start a thread to help me (and hopefully others) who are using pro-amps and EQ devices like the MiniDSP or Behringer products with their subs. Here are a few quotes from Warpdrv's dual opposed LMS thread which got me started thinking about it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

I have a bit more time now....

Basically what we did was play the WOTW scene which is pretty well documented for having really heavy low bass over and over again (we probably could have used test tones for this). First we turned off all the amps (subs and speakers) and set the D2v at the highest volume it would ever go to, which is adjustable, I can set it to what ever I want. (0db to +20db, or whatever) Then we adjusted the sub out gain to get the DCX input clip lights to just about red. Then we adjusted all the DCX outputs to the same and then the Sub amps gains to show the same so we are getting max non clipping output.

I'm not sure how you would do that with an AVR, but it looks like they covered some of that in the post I linked. Are you using the DCX?

Then after that we started EQing individual subs from that point

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Yes, using the DCX. But simply left it's gain/level control on "0", and then used the gains on the pro-amp to get to 72 to 73db with pink noise on the AVR and the AVR's sub level slightly below 0 (has a range of -10 to +10 IIRC or thereabouts).
Yeah, didn't follow that thread overly well!

Hmmm ... let's see if I have this right:

1. Remove all the speaker wire from the terminals on the back of the AVR (as I don't think I can just turn them off?)
2. Turn the pro-amp for the sub off
3. Play a low test tone (20hz/40/60hz??) over and over
4. Turn up the main volume knob on the AVR (I assume you mean the main "volume" knob?)
5. Use the sub trim level in the AVR and adjust upwards until the DCX input lights clip to almost red

Wait, what does "adjust the DCX outputs to the same" mean?

Clearly I'm missing a few steps!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

I'm not sure about what test tone, help anybody ? (maybe REW's internal test tones?)

Ok
#5 Sub outputs trim set - then

#6 Push the Input 1 button on DCX, adjust gain to just about clip if it wasn't already with the sub trim.

#7 Push the #1 output button (gain screen), you can see the same screen as the input - where you can adjust the gain, dial it to the point where its outputting basically the same led's as the input, same with the #2 output if thats indeed how you have it setup. (ie Input 1 goes to output 1 & 2)

#8 When you have those levels set, then go to the sub amp with speaker wires disconnected, dial the gain to be just before clip.

Now turn the volume knob down on the receiver, turn it off and reconnect everything and try that out and see how the performance is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

pbc,

This is taken from the Home Theater Shack forum, under the BFD section. In the description they are talking about the Behringer 1124p, but the same applies to your DCX (just a slightly different method). This all needs to be performed with the DCX settings all at factory zero (stock) and with no EQ filters applied (needs to be performed BEFORE EQ):

"SETTING THE INPUT LEVELS ON THE BFD

After powering on the unit you will need to set the input level. The BFD is more commonly used in recording studio's and concerts, etc. It was not really designed for use in home theater systems nor for equalizing home audio subwoofers. When setting up a studio or concert, the level is usually the same. Most concerts I've ever been to keep the volume level the same (very loud!) during the entire event... they set it and forget it. At home we vary our volume level because we have several different input sources and different listening levels at different times. Our sources (DVD Players, CD Players, Tuners, etc.) usually have fixed outputs and they are in the audio chain prior to the pre/pro or receiver. The BFD is in the chain after the pre/pro or receiver. Plus we are not setting this on auto pilot and letting it search out frequencies to destroy feedback as the name of the unit would imply. It can cut a feedback frequency by up to 48db. We are using it as a parametric equalizer to tame subwoofer frequency response peaks... we surely don't want to eliminate them completely. Thus, we have to set the input level on the BFD so that during our maximum listening volume, it doesn't clip.

On the top right front of the unit you will see the "IN/OUT" button. Press and hold this button for a moment until the button light blinks. You are now in the "BYPASS" mode with no filtering active. You can only monitor the setting of the input level in the "BYPASS" mode. The input level is monitored by the LED's in the far left section of the display window. If the unit is not in the "BYPASS" mode then the LED's will monitor the "output" level. We want to monitor the "input" level. Play a CD or DVD with some good deep bass (U-571 with the depth charge scenes is a good one to use if you have it). Play the source at the maximum level you would listen to it. You should notice the green LED's moving up and down. You may only see part of or all of the green LED's lit or you may see all of them lit up along with the yellow and the red LED at the top lit (they will vary with input). The red LED at the top is labeled "CLIP". Your goal is to see the yellow LED close to the top blink on loud bass sections of the music or movies. It is okay if the red LED blinks occasionally as well... as long as it's not constantly lit. Remember... there's a reason it's labeled "CLIP". To adjust how far up the LED's blink you will adjust your sub output level on your pre/pro or receiver's speaker level menu or sub level control. (Your volume control on your sub has nothing to do with the input level.) On one of my pre/pros I had my sub level set to zero initially. After I connected my BFD I raised the sub output level to +3. This allowed the yellow LED and occasionally the red LED to blink during the loudest scenes of movies. Remember, the input level of the BFD should be set in the "BYPASS" mode (the "IN/OUT" button will be blinking). Once you have set the output level on your pre/pro or receiver you can then adjust the output level (volume control) on your sub to equal your mains. I used the AVIA DVD to match the levels of my speakers. AVIA instructions are easy to follow and the DVD will give you a host of other tools to use for video and audio calibrations. There are other DVDs and CDs available for this... such as DVE (DIGITAL VIDEO ESSENTIALS). You will also need to repeat the reset of the sub vs. main levels once you later complete the filter setups. You may find that once you have smoothed out peaks that your sub level doesn't seem loud enough. I had to turn my sub volume up for my taste. Remember not to adjust the volume of your sub via your pre/pro or receiver after you have set the input level... use you sub volume or the volume on the amp connected to your sub, which should be inline after the BFD.

NOTE: Something that you should remember to do when you are setting up your BFD is add a foot to the value you enter for sub distance in your pre/pro or receiver set up. The 1 msec DSP processing delay in the BFD would account for approximately a foot in distance."


 

My DIY Subs ...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

pbc is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 80 Old 04-23-2011, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
pbc
AVS Special Member
 
pbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,357
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Okay, so first Q. Is there any consensus on what bass material or test tone to use to set the gain structure?

I was using the infamous FOTP scene, and had to set trim level on my AV7005 to -5 for it to hardly ever clip red (it still did once or twice). But if I use WOTW, I can set the trim level up to +2 for the same effect?

 

My DIY Subs ...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

pbc is offline  
post #3 of 80 Old 04-23-2011, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
pbc
AVS Special Member
 
pbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,357
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Warp, not sure I'm understanding this last step?

#8 When you have those levels set, then go to the sub amp with speaker wires disconnected, dial the gain to be just before clip.

I.e., once you've set the subwoofer trim level in the AVR to where the input gain on the DCX is just before clipping, then you set the output gain on the DCX to approx. the same level, isn't the gain on the sub amp the only thing you have left to adjust the subwoofer level relative to the mains? I.e., if you also set it to where it is just below clipping, how would you then ensure it is "level" with your mains as you would have to adjust something?

Further, if you then were to run Audyssey, which would also play with your subwoofer trim level in your AVR, do you then go into your AVR or processor, readjust the trim level to what it was when you gain matched it, then you have to adjust gain on the sub amp to compensate no?

 

My DIY Subs ...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

pbc is offline  
post #4 of 80 Old 05-25-2011, 07:05 AM
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,394
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 443 Post(s)
Liked: 705
im interested in resurrecting this topic as Ive read differing opinions around and I also know that smokarz is going to be needing some additional info as well, if anyone can drop some bombs of knowledge for us on doing this using AVR-->Minidsp--->pro amp-->sub please dont hesitate

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is online now  
post #5 of 80 Old 05-25-2011, 07:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
smokarz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hartford, CT USA
Posts: 3,261
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 63
and also for AVR -> Pro Amp -> Sub, sorry i don't have an EQ, and probably might not need one.
smokarz is online now  
post #6 of 80 Old 05-25-2011, 07:57 AM
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,394
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 443 Post(s)
Liked: 705
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post
and also for AVR -> Pro Amp -> Sub, sorry i don't have an EQ, and probably might not need one.
hmm, for the 125-145 tag on the mini, it might still be nice for some added flexibility should you want to level the response out even further, but of course it's up to you getting one is a necessity for me since i need the HPF

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is online now  
post #7 of 80 Old 05-25-2011, 08:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
smokarz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hartford, CT USA
Posts: 3,261
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 63
i might look at one down the road, just not now as i have a few other projets going on and trying to squeeze the most out of every pennies....
smokarz is online now  
post #8 of 80 Old 05-25-2011, 08:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 4,675
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 300 Post(s)
Liked: 538
I'm not an expert at this, but I would:

Set your receiver volume to reference (0db or what ever);
Set the trim to it's lowest (-10db or whatever);
Set the amp gain to minimum;
Set the minidsp to 0db or flat or whatever is neither boost or attenuate;

Ok, now using white noise, increase trim until the amp clips then back off 1 or 2 db;
If you max trim and don't clip, add gain to the mini, and if the amp clips without any trim, attenuate the mini;
Now channel match to the sub by adding gain to the amp until your spl meter reads the desired channel levels (most people use 10db hotter than the other channels);
Eq the sub with the mini;
Reset the gain in the step before eq;

Let me remind you that I'm no pro here. Just have some basic experience with PA and have heard a few PA guys go on about it. If someone can make any corrections to my sequence, I'd be open to it.
tuxedocivic is offline  
post #9 of 80 Old 05-25-2011, 09:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,509
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 607
bossobass is offline  
post #10 of 80 Old 05-25-2011, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
pbc
AVS Special Member
 
pbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,357
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

I'm not an expert at this, but I would:

Set your receiver volume to reference (0db or what ever);
Set the trim to it's lowest (-10db or whatever);
Set the amp gain to minimum;
Set the minidsp to 0db or flat or whatever is neither boost or attenuate;

Ok, now using white noise, increase trim until the amp clips then back off 1 or 2 db;
If you max trim and don't clip, add gain to the mini, and if the amp clips without any trim, attenuate the mini;
Now channel match to the sub by adding gain to the amp until your spl meter reads the desired channel levels (most people use 10db hotter than the other channels);
Eq the sub with the mini;
Reset the gain in the step before eq;

Let me remind you that I'm no pro here. Just have some basic experience with PA and have heard a few PA guys go on about it. If someone can make any corrections to my sequence, I'd be open to it.

These steps seem different from the ones posted above re: setting the gain on the DCX first. In this case you have the mini being set last instead of first. Which means I'm more confused (was stuck at the question I posted above ages ago).

Bosso - in the Rane document, is the "active crossover" section applicable to people using a MiniDSP or DCX2496? I.e., would those be considered the active cross overs?

Was hoping to get to a simple "step by step" instruction by creating this thread. I.e., "gain structure for dummies" .... or in my case, idiots!

 

My DIY Subs ...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

pbc is offline  
post #11 of 80 Old 05-25-2011, 12:13 PM
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,394
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 443 Post(s)
Liked: 705
to answer one question, yes, the DCX or miniDSP would be the active crossover/eq

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is online now  
post #12 of 80 Old 05-25-2011, 12:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 4,675
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 300 Post(s)
Liked: 538
Sorry I've confused you more

I only skimmed over the quotes from your OP. In PA, the only EQs,gates, etc. I've used have gains from -50 to +10 or something like that. I've never set a DCX although I have one in a rig I use at my church. I could take a look. I always set these devices to 0db unless necessary. That seems to lead to the best S/N ratio for me. Maybe I'm doing it wrong?
tuxedocivic is offline  
post #13 of 80 Old 05-25-2011, 12:16 PM
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,394
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 443 Post(s)
Liked: 705
it also makes much more sense to set the gains in order of the chain, not skip around, otherwise, you will be undoing previous settings behind ones that are already set!

My main concern is doing this for subs then level matching with the mains afterwards. While it is good to know how loud you can turn the system to get the subs max output, that wont do much good if it doesnt blend with the rest of the system. since my last part of the chain is actually not a gain knob but a limiter, i dont really know how to go about this.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is online now  
post #14 of 80 Old 05-25-2011, 01:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 4,675
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 300 Post(s)
Liked: 538
Just read that article. Quote:

all outboard compressors, limiters, equalizers, enhancers, effects, or what-have-you need not provide gain beyond that required to offset the amplification or attenuation the box provides.

This would suggest the mini or dsx should be 0db or flat, unless required to correct the eq unit (unlikely to be needed, however, I have heard on these boards that the dsx adds gain, so attenuating the gain may be required).

I'd say this is not apart of the last section on active XOs as you're using the mini or dsx as an eq.
tuxedocivic is offline  
post #15 of 80 Old 05-25-2011, 01:14 PM
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,394
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 443 Post(s)
Liked: 705
i would be using it as a HPF as well however... not that it really changes the point you made

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is online now  
post #16 of 80 Old 05-25-2011, 01:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 4,675
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 300 Post(s)
Liked: 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post


My main concern is doing this for subs then level matching with the mains afterwards. While it is good to know how loud you can turn the system to get the subs max output, that wont do much good if it doesnt blend with the rest of the system. since my last part of the chain is actually not a gain knob but a limiter, i dont really know how to go about this.

you do need to level match and it's more important than max output I think. I was applying my steps with a PA system in mind, but you could never clip a pro amp on minimum gain, so my steps don't work. I don't think they do at least. The trim should probably be set to 0db and saved until last to set level. Hmm.... Maybe:

Set trim to flat;
Set mini/dsx to flat (or correct it if it needs it);
Set the amp to minimum;
Increase amp until clipping occurs;
Trim to level match;
Adjust amp gain again as required;
You could almost do iterations of trimming and gain?

I dunno. In PA I always set my slider near 0db (I think that would be like trim) then bring up input gain until the board clips. then the down stream stuff I leave flat, and the amp gain is increased until it clips. It's probably bad practice, but I leave the amps alone and decrease input gain and leave the sliders near 0 to get all channels close, Then I tweak with the sliders last. Eq happens last and a little slider tweaking happens along the way. Not sure how that would translate to an AVR
tuxedocivic is offline  
post #17 of 80 Old 05-25-2011, 02:10 PM
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,394
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 443 Post(s)
Liked: 705
yea kinda two different mediums, my plan is to set the avr right at reference, mini level, set the sub level at +5 in avr to start, then adjust the limiter on the amp until i get good mix AND/OR clip, in which case I will go back to the AVR and adjust sub level output (trim?) accordingly. I would run audyssey once sub placement is set, then re-eq the low end using the MiniDSP

Eq first front sub, then rear, then tweak with both together. once that is done, even though the tempest will alllow the limiter to go to full, i should be relatively matched with the R/L speakers for good music listening

Once i go through this entire process, i should be in decent shape, might after eq just run some sweeps to make sure all is still kosher

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is online now  
post #18 of 80 Old 05-25-2011, 11:56 PM
Senior Member
 
Russell Burrows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: no mans land aka mexican dmz
Posts: 422
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
And what about folks that just have budget equipment?

I.e. I have a Sherwood receiver (will be replaced for a Yamaha or Onkyo in July) and I have four bash 300 watt amps from PE.

The way I set my gain structure is all four amps volume knob set to five and receiver subwoofer gain to 0 .

I play a few songs from Base Mechanik and slowly increase the volume on the receiver until 70.

Then if no distortion then I change my subwoofer gain on the Sherwood to plus five and redo the listening tests as I slowly increase the main volume on the Sherwood.

My final settings were subwoofer channel plus 7, L 0, R 0, C +2, Rs +5, Ls+5 and the volume knobs on all four bash 300 watt amps set to seven.

As a test I let the wife play with the volume as She sampled some mixed drinks with vodka while listening to Tiesto and some trance tracks.

The volume was increased until 65(on the Sherwood) with no distortion but the cheap chinese subs did get a bit hot with that much power hitting them with no letup for 30 minutes from the four bash 300 watt amps.

In my limited experience I guess seven is the magic number for me as its above five so it gets plenty of juice to the inputs of the next component but does not risk an input over drive on a component??

But then what do I know as I have no clue and my only guideline is give it juice until it begins to sound distorted then back off the inputs a tiny bit and its set for that component.

Thats per component as the main volume knob is a whole *nother story???

As long as I can feel my forearm hairs move then its all good.

DIY beats store purchased.
Russell Burrows is offline  
post #19 of 80 Old 05-26-2011, 07:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
exojam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 2,551
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

http://www.rane.com/note135.html

Bosso

Bosso,

In that article you linked, it points to a Ranegane device (link below). Could that device be used in a home setting as long as the processor and amps have XLR connections. Also, could it be used for subs and speakers? Thanks.

http://www.rane.com/ranegain.html

James
exojam is offline  
post #20 of 80 Old 05-26-2011, 07:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lennon_68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: All alone in northern MN...
Posts: 1,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 20
I found this to be an excellent read on properly setting gain structure when mixing consumer and pro audio components. I never did get around to going through the steps though

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ur-system.html


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
lennon_68 is offline  
post #21 of 80 Old 05-26-2011, 07:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,509
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by exojam View Post

Bosso,

In that article you linked, it points to a Ranegane device (link below). Could that device be used in a home setting as long as the processor and amps have XLR connections. Also, could it be used for subs and speakers? Thanks.

http://www.rane.com/ranegain.html

James

IMO, it isn't useful for HT subwoofers in a home system.

Bosso
bossobass is offline  
post #22 of 80 Old 05-26-2011, 08:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
exojam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 2,551
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Thanks Bosso.

I want to get this straight on my amp before I get that Bassis installed.

James
exojam is offline  
post #23 of 80 Old 05-26-2011, 09:43 AM
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,394
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 443 Post(s)
Liked: 705
Quote:
Originally Posted by lennon_68 View Post

I found this to be an excellent read on properly setting gain structure when mixing consumer and pro audio components. I never did get around to going through the steps though

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ur-system.html

that is a stellar article!!!!

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is online now  
post #24 of 80 Old 05-26-2011, 10:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ricci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 5,094
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 204
GAH!!!

I just wrote a long reply and my session timed out and I lost it. Oh well.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ricci is offline  
post #25 of 80 Old 05-26-2011, 10:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
exojam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 2,551
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Ricci,

At some time if you can write it out again that would be great.

James
exojam is offline  
post #26 of 80 Old 05-26-2011, 11:00 AM
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,394
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 443 Post(s)
Liked: 705
James, check that HTS article I referenced above, it has slightly different take than the rane article (although it is mentioned as well) and might be alittle more towards the HT/pro integrations scenario we typically look at.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is online now  
post #27 of 80 Old 05-26-2011, 11:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
exojam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 2,551
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
I have been reading through it (after Lennon linked it, thanks Lennon) and one of the interesting things in the write was setting speaker-sub trims to max and also the mv to max to obtain the voltage being sent.

I recently picked up a Fluke 115 and will try to get that done soon. I also downloaded the 1K and 60HZ files linked in that page.

The reason I had asked Ricci to write up his information (again if he choices to) is that actually asked him yesterday how he went about it since we have a similar Onkyo.

James
exojam is offline  
post #28 of 80 Old 05-26-2011, 11:20 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ricci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 5,094
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 204
James. What components are in your signal path? Are you using outboard amps for your speakers too? Sub amps are what? Eq box? Do the amps all have clipping indicators? Do you have a dmm? Do you have the ability to run REW? What sound card do you have?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ricci is offline  
post #29 of 80 Old 05-26-2011, 11:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
exojam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 2,551
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Ricci,

Below is how the complete chain. I also use other components but only the Toshiba for testing.

2 dedicated 20 amp lines each with a 2kva Equitech BTP (off of sub panel from the basement, 100 amps)

Toshiba XA2 (when using Omni Mic) - Onkyo 885 XLR - Marathon MA-5050 (one channel per AV15H)

Toshiba XA2 (when using Omni Mic) - Onkyo 885 XLR - QSC GX5 for L-R

Center and surrounds are run off of a Rotel RMB-1075 but this amp has not controls.

I placed a screen shot from Device Manager showing the sound information. I can use REW to generate tones but the sound card does not allow for me to connect to a SPL meter.

I have been using Omni Mic for all of my recent measurements.

Hopefully that covers everything you were asking about.

James
LL
exojam is offline  
post #30 of 80 Old 05-26-2011, 06:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
exojam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 2,551
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Well ain't that the cats pajamas.

I burned the files Wayne placed on his thread and my Toshiba XA2 does not play mp3's.

I dropped the disc in my Panasonic BDT-300 and with both left and right speaker trim maxed, master volume maxed, stereo mode, left and right full range and subwoofer to 120HZ I got 14.5 volts on the left and right channels.

Now the fun part, it will not produce any voltage on the subwoofer channel. I tried another (working) cable just to make sure and still did not get anything. I looked through the Panasonic manual and cannot see if it sends information to the sub channel with a mp3. I know in my XA2 with CD's or even the Omni Mic CD I do get a signal on that channel.

I will now have to see how I can get a signal done to the subwoofer channel.

James
exojam is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off