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post #1 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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I know that Epik represents a great value in the sub world.
I would like to further that value and make a diy clone..
Has anyone already done this?
I am looking at utalizing the Dayton rf 15 driver(s)
Wanted to keep the price below the already great price that you can pick up the (empire) for..
Any ideas? References to projects already completed would be most helpfull.
Thanks guys.

My first DIY project. A dual, dual opposed setup

www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1345494
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post #2 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 09:24 AM
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I would check out the dual opposed MFW-15 builds that are happening right now. Probably a good driver to consider and you can get them for $77 plus shipping each.
You could actually buy 4 of the drivers and make 2 dual opposed subwoofers powered by an EP2500/4000 and come in around $700.
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post #3 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Dual opposed in one box? That sounds sweet, but to better the room response wouldnt it be more advantagous to build two separate boxes? I understand, 2 amps instead of one, and double the wood.
Anyone else got anything to suggest?

My first DIY project. A dual, dual opposed setup

www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1345494
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post #4 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 01:01 PM
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I vote for 4 mfw-15 in separate enclosures, 90l each. Ep2500/EP4000 to power all 4, 2 on each channel.
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post #5 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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One in each of the four corners of the room eh?
It could work for sure, but wouldnt that end up being a 2ohm load? On each channel?
I am supposing that if all the boxes are sealed, then that would make them more (musical) which is great for me, since my music/ht spilt is 80/20.
I was (and still are) considering the epik empire, but the diy idea surely has taken hold.
I am a machine builder by trade, so i enjoy working with my hands, and being able too (hear) the fruits of my labor definatly appeals to me..
Thanks for all your suggestions.
I am still thinking on it so keep them coming...

My first DIY project. A dual, dual opposed setup

www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1345494
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post #6 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 01:50 PM
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Th ep2500 should handle a 2ohm load. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post10755537
I think you will easily hit >110db@20hz with 4 of those drivers in a corner.

or build two of lilmikes F-20 horns using the mfw-15 driver.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1329971
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post #7 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Correct me if I wrong, but isnt a horn more for spl, rather than sq? Or can i get good tight punchy bass from a horn as well? If you could link the horn design, that would be appreciated. You guys are really helping me out here...

My first DIY project. A dual, dual opposed setup

www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1345494
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post #8 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 03:00 PM
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2 Drivers would go in each enclosure. 4 MFW-15 drivers and 1 EP2500/4000 to power it all. The good thing is the EP4000 would power twice as many drivers if you wanted to build more down the road

Dual opposed means 2 drivers in one box on opposite sides. Having them opposed to each other helps cancel out vibration.
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post #9 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 03:02 PM
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If you wanted to build a THT you could still be within' your budget. Check out the design HERE

Exceptional output down to 20hz but not alot below. Just depends what you're looking for...
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post #10 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
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So a dual opposing would be just like the empire. If i was to use four drivers I would be building two enclosures.. that seems like it might be the way to go. But how would ine figure out size requirements for for a dual opposing? Just double the volume?

My first DIY project. A dual, dual opposed setup

www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1345494
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post #11 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile34 View Post

So a dual opposing would be just like the empire. If i was to use four drivers I would be building two enclosures.. that seems like it might be the way to go. But how would ine figure out size requirements for for a dual opposing? Just double the volume?

Yes, just like the Empire which is why I suggested it because you wanted a clone

You could save yourself some money and just build one and use a smaller, less expensive amp or give yourself the flexibility of being able to add more down the road and even build 2 of them to start by using the suggested amp. If you're looking for size requirements I would head over to that thread and see what his are. It's somewhat flexible and you can do some modelling with WinISD.
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post #12 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Who is his in that statement? What thread? Totally digging this idea with the dual opposing, and dual encolosures. That would be sweet...

My first DIY project. A dual, dual opposed setup

www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1345494
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post #13 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 03:51 PM
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Sorry my mind was in another thread when I wrote that. It's THIS thread
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post #14 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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That looks like it might be the winner. Is there any pros/cons with the dual opposed vs single sealed other than more, or less floor area?

So Ep4000 329$ Amazon
4 MFW-15 drivers 320$ Apx
2 4x8 sheets of .75 mdf 60$
For a grand Total of 709

The look on my wifes face when I fire these puppies up.. Priceless

My first DIY project. A dual, dual opposed setup

www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1345494
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post #15 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 06:15 PM
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I'm no expert but you gain more or less 6db in a dual opposed setup compared to 2 enclosures. With more subs spread out in the room you can flatten the frequency response. I have read that a horn is the best when it comes to sound quality, Low distortion and sensitivity.
How big of an enclosure do you want? I can model 2 drivers for you in winisd.
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post #16 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile34 View Post
That looks like it might be the winner. Is there any pros/cons with the dual opposed vs single sealed other than more, or less floor area?

So Ep4000 329$ Amazon
4 MFW-15 drivers 320$ Apx
2 4x8 sheets of .75 mdf 60$
For a grand Total of 709

The look on my wifes face when I fire these puppies up.. Priceless
You can get the ep4000 new on ebay for around 300, check out craigslist for a used ep2500, I found one for 200, couldnt pass it up so I bought it.

I think you will enjoy these, and you cant ask for a much simplier build.

Oh and dont forget some eq for these.

Wem
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post #17 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile34 View Post
That looks like it might be the winner. Is there any pros/cons with the dual opposed vs single sealed other than more, or less floor area?

So Ep4000 329$ Amazon
4 MFW-15 drivers 320$ Apx
2 4x8 sheets of .75 mdf 60$
For a grand Total of 709

The look on my wifes face when I fire these puppies up.. Priceless
4 mfw drivers gonna be around $400 shipped

i would suggest looking at some good ply. i just threw away a sheet of mdf. dust, dust, and dust everywhere....
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post #18 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 07:06 PM
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Birch plywood ftw, I wouldn't use MDF unless it was my only option..
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post #19 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 07:41 PM
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Birch plywood ftw, I wouldn't use MDF unless it was my only option..
Hey there are alot of good qualities about MDF. It's cheap, more dense, better for machining (routering) and also has a more consistent surface for veneering or painting.

Most MDF I've seen lately has no formaldehyde so the health concerns with the dust are far less than in years past.

The only reason I'd use Baltic Birch is that it's ready to stain, it's lighter and produces less dust.

If a person is veneering, bedlining or painting...is it really worth all that extra money just because it's lighter or produces less dust?

Sure Pro Audio popularized the use of plywood and it's understandable that nobody wants to lug around 150lb cabinets when you can make them almost half that. For the majority of DIY'ers in this forum who are building subwoofers that are gonna sit in the same spot in a living room for years to come you'll probably get alot more bang for your buck building with MDF and spending the money you save on more drivers, better amps or acoustical treatments for your room.

Birch Plywood FTW? I don't think so. MDF and Plywood both make equally excellent choices for building a subwoofer. I would choose based on what type of finish you're going for before I'd just blindly choose Baltic Birch because some other people in the forums use it.
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post #20 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile34 View Post
Is there any pros/cons with the dual opposed vs single sealed other than more, or less floor area?
Building dual opposed means less money spent on material, less time building, less cabling and less floor space needed.

Building 2 dual opposed would be a pretty sweet starting point and leave you a project to jump into down the road if you so choose

You're right about the look on your wife's face when you fire those things up!
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post #21 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Talked to erich, and got the price on the drivers shipped. It looks like this project will be a go in a few short weeks..
Mrkazador, I would really apprecaite you modeling them up for me.. I am very inexperanced with the program.
I am handy with tools, so the actual build process for me is going to be the easy part.
As far the size requirements, whatever it needs to sound good. I have a reasonably large living room to fill, 24*12*10 open to the kichten and ajoining hallways..
I am more of a music person than HT. So a nice tight, punchy bass is what i am looking for...
You guys truly are great for all the suggestions and ideas. Really looking forward to this, I promise a build thread once it all starts to happen.

My first DIY project. A dual, dual opposed setup

www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1345494
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post #22 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 09:31 PM
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That's awesome, looking forward to lots of pics from your build.
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post #23 of 33 Old 04-30-2011, 10:37 PM
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Build a 24" cube for 2 mfw-15 drivers, should be around 180 liters. 450w and xmax reached around 8hz. You don't have to build a cube, you can use sonotube or build a rectangle, whatever you want. Use this to calculate enclosure volume.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...me-calculator/
LL
LL
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post #24 of 33 Old 05-01-2011, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielson99 View Post

Hey there are alot of good qualities about MDF. It's cheap, more dense, better for machining (routering) and also has a more consistent surface for veneering or painting.

Most MDF I've seen lately has no formaldehyde so the health concerns with the dust are far less than in years past.

The only reason I'd use Baltic Birch is that it's ready to stain, it's lighter and produces less dust.

If a person is veneering, bedlining or painting...is it really worth all that extra money just because it's lighter or produces less dust?

Sure Pro Audio popularized the use of plywood and it's understandable that nobody wants to lug around 150lb cabinets when you can make them almost half that. For the majority of DIY'ers in this forum who are building subwoofers that are gonna sit in the same spot in a living room for years to come you'll probably get alot more bang for your buck building with MDF and spending the money you save on more drivers, better amps or acoustical treatments for your room.

Birch Plywood FTW? I don't think so. MDF and Plywood both make equally excellent choices for building a subwoofer. I would choose based on what type of finish you're going for before I'd just blindly choose Baltic Birch because some other people in the forums use it.

The weight can be an issue but that is purely an individual situation.

The dust is an absolute nightmare and is probably the biggest reason why I do not use MDF on bigger projects. If someone has a proper dust collection system then this is not really a problem. MDF is definitely EASIER to cut, its smoother and takes far less time to finish.

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post #25 of 33 Old 05-01-2011, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielson99 View Post

Hey there are alot of good qualities about MDF. It's cheap, more dense, better for machining (routering) and also has a more consistent surface for veneering or painting.

Most MDF I've seen lately has no formaldehyde so the health concerns with the dust are far less than in years past.

The only reason I'd use Baltic Birch is that it's ready to stain, it's lighter and produces less dust.

If a person is veneering, bedlining or painting...is it really worth all that extra money just because it's lighter or produces less dust?

Sure Pro Audio popularized the use of plywood and it's understandable that nobody wants to lug around 150lb cabinets when you can make them almost half that. For the majority of DIY'ers in this forum who are building subwoofers that are gonna sit in the same spot in a living room for years to come you'll probably get alot more bang for your buck building with MDF and spending the money you save on more drivers, better amps or acoustical treatments for your room.

Birch Plywood FTW? I don't think so. MDF and Plywood both make equally excellent choices for building a subwoofer. I would choose based on what type of finish you're going for before I'd just blindly choose Baltic Birch because some other people in the forums use it.

Of course MDF has its qualities, and some people prefer it to plywood - but my answer was opinion based on personal preference... I'm a birch plywood fanboy

I like birch because its stiff, wont warp, wont swell, its light, and it has minimal acoustic absorption characteristics (especially when properly braced). Very forgiving, it takes screws and T-Nuts like a champ. No chips or dents here. How long will it last? If painted and not out in the elements - longer than you.

-D
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post #26 of 33 Old 05-01-2011, 06:27 AM
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Buy the EP2500 used. I bought 2 of them used on ebay for $450. You can easily find one for $200-$250 shipped.

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post #27 of 33 Old 05-01-2011, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Should I go with the ep2500? Will that be enough power for (4) drivers? If i decide to expand to 6 or 8 then i will need another one. was thinking bite the intial bullet and just get the ep4000.
What does the expercianced ones say requarding this matter?

My first DIY project. A dual, dual opposed setup

www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1345494
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post #28 of 33 Old 05-01-2011, 07:15 AM
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The ep2500 is the same as the ep4000 despite their different ratings. They both have the same amount of power. One of those amps will drive 8 MFWs, just not to their full ability. I believe wembley is using 1 EP for his 8 drivers.
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post #29 of 33 Old 05-01-2011, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile34 View Post

Should I go with the ep2500? Will that be enough power for (4) drivers? If i decide to expand to 6 or 8 then i will need another one. was thinking bite the intial bullet and just get the ep4000.
What does the expercianced ones say requarding this matter?

Same amp, different names. Also, check the amp tests in this forum, the EP2500/4000 does not produce it's rated watage. With your (4) 15s, wired to each channel at 2ohms. You would have 1,600 for all (4) drivers. You could also run 8.

I have (2) EP2500s pushing (8) sealed Dayton HFs just fine.

EDIT: Guess I was a little late. lol

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post #30 of 33 Old 05-01-2011, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNICRON-WMD View Post

Same amp, different names. Also, check the amp tests in this forum, the EP2500/4000 does not produce it's rated watage. With your (4) 15s, wired to each channel at 2ohms. You would have 1,600 for all (4) drivers. You could also run 8.

I have (2) EP2500s pushing (8) sealed Dayton HFs just fine.

EDIT: Guess I was a little late. lol

I think the Daytons can take about twice as much power as the MFW-15. 1 EP2500 should easily power 8 of them.

If it were me I'd just buy a brand new EP4000 since they are $300 shipped. But if a person is trying to pinch every dollar they can a used EP2500 could save you $50 or so.
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