Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 4612 Old 06-02-2011, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kibe29 View Post

I can attest to the improvement in notnyt's subs. I have been fortunate enough to hear the before and after. I didn't think it could get much better. Boy was I wrong! The bass is so much stronger, louder cleaner etc. I say go for it Scott!

Can you say if it sounds any better at a power level that's, say, half the max of the previous amps?

IOW does it sound better because the previous amps were pushed too hard.

Noah
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post #272 of 4612 Old 06-02-2011, 05:54 PM
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That I couldn't answer. We only listened at higher levels for the most part. I'm sure notnyt could elaborate. At high levels the marathons were maxing out. Not the case with these amps.

Btw even when everything was quiet I never heard the fans.
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post #273 of 4612 Old 06-02-2011, 06:46 PM
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A 6db increase from a box would of course require a quadrupling of power (I mention a "box" as you indicated a stereo comparison, so I'm assuming either channel goes to one of the drivers in each box).

Don't the marathons deliver "x",x00's per channel?

Regardless of the specific number, 4x'ing it seems unreachable. Have you measured this 6 db increase?

Of course if you're talking a 6db increase overall from all 4 cabs combined thats a whole nother story and certainly not indicative of a quadrupling of power into four cabs.

Thanks,

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #274 of 4612 Old 06-02-2011, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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No, I'm just guessing and pulling db numbers out of thin air. Of course I measured it. I couldn't push the drivers any further as they would bottom out at the point, hence why I say at least 6db. The ma5050 could not put out the required voltage in 4 ohm stereo mode and would clip. The fp14000 does not have this problem.
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post #275 of 4612 Old 06-02-2011, 07:12 PM
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Lmao...yeah, because precisely that doesn't go on perpetually all over this site.

Again. If you're talking about 6 more dbs from 4 cabs that's obviously a huge distinction from a single unit and the former would not require an exponential increase in power to realize. But in the same breath of course it's perfectly reasonable to believe these put out more clean power.


James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #276 of 4612 Old 06-02-2011, 07:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Lmao...yeah, because precisely that doesn't go on perpetually all over this site.

Again. If you're talking about 6 more dbs from 4 cabs that's obviously a huge distinction from a single unit and the former would not require an exponential increase in power to realize. But in the same breath of course it's perfectly reasonable to believe these put out more clean power.


James

You might want to check your math.

Replacing one MA5050 with an FP14000 yielded +6dB gain. Replacing them all yields +6dB as well. There is no distinction.

The 4ohm bridged "rating" is 2.8x higher, so it's not unrealistic to believe a +6dB real world difference considering the MA5050 had trouble sweating out 4ohm stereo.
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post #277 of 4612 Old 06-02-2011, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiGBADDABOOM View Post


You might want to check your math.

Replacing one MA5050 with an FP14000 yielded +6dB gain. Replacing them all yields +6dB as well. There is no distinction.

The 4ohm bridged "rating" is 2.8x higher, so it's not unrealistic to believe a +6dB real world difference considering the MA5050 had trouble sweating out 4ohm stereo.

My math is fine, thanks. I was not privy to the precise ratings (nevermind actual, measurable output) and so I made a "guess" of about 4X...it appears it's closer to 3.
To be perfectly honest, I thought this was an apples to apples stereo comparo...just caught the last two pages or so.

Seeing that's not the case, yeah I guess it's reasonable, sorry for missing the stereo vs mono distinction.

And just so we're clear: surely you're not stating that a 6db increase with one cab yields an identical in-room spl as all four being raised 6dbs?

My larger point was that gaining 6dbs from four cabs doesn't take nearly the amount of power per cab as it does with a single unit.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #278 of 4612 Old 06-02-2011, 07:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

My math is fine, thanks.

I'm talking about this "math":

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Again. If you're talking about 6 more dbs from 4 cabs that's obviously a huge distinction from a single unit and the former would not require an exponential increase in power to realize.

There is no distinction, much less a huge one.
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post #279 of 4612 Old 06-02-2011, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiGBADDABOOM View Post


I'm talking about this "math":

There is no distinction, much less a huge one.

YES, there IS. The distinction lies just how I noted it above. 4 cabs would require just a nominal increase in power to each cab to achieve a total 6db increase while a single unit would require about 4x the power it "saw" before to make the 6db jump.

That is a distinction.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #280 of 4612 Old 06-02-2011, 08:09 PM
 
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You're living up to your signature.

If his four cabs only saw a nominal increase in power, he'd only get a nominal increase in output.

Since he's getting +6dB from a single cab, all four cabs seeing this new power results in a total system output increase of +6dB.

There is no distinction.

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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

My larger point was that gaining 6dbs from four cabs doesn't take nearly the amount of power per cab as it does with a single unit.

This is incorrect.
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post #281 of 4612 Old 06-02-2011, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Lmao...yeah, because precisely that doesn't go on perpetually all over this site.

Again. If you're talking about 6 more dbs from 4 cabs that's obviously a huge distinction from a single unit and the former would not require an exponential increase in power to realize. But in the same breath of course it's perfectly reasonable to believe these put out more clean power.


James

I'm talking about from a single unit. I tested with one amp, one cab.

bigbadaboom is correct.

to gain +6db system wide, or on a single cab, it requires 4x the total power. Please stop filling my informational post with rubbish, thanks.
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post #282 of 4612 Old 06-02-2011, 08:12 PM
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Well, if you had read what I typed above I wasn't sure if he was talking about a 6db increase from one cab or all four.

NO ONE is debating the 4x requirement...just stating it's easier to meet over 4 amplifers instead of one.

Detail the rubbish.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #283 of 4612 Old 06-02-2011, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't know if it speaks more for the fp14000 or less of the ma-5050, but there is a huge difference between the amps. better power supply, better amplification stages, higher power handling, etc. It was a risk ordering these that paid off well so far.
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post #284 of 4612 Old 06-02-2011, 08:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Well, if you had read what I typed above I wasn't sure if he was talking about a 6db increase from one cab or all four.

It's irrelevant. There is no distinction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

NO ONE is debating the 4x requirement...just stating it's easier to meet over 4 amplifers instead of one.

You keep saying this, and it's hurting my brain. This is false.
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post #285 of 4612 Old 06-02-2011, 08:24 PM
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If you stack two subs ontop of one another in a room and calibrate each of them individually to play a 20hz tone at 100dbs at 2 meters, without altering anything, what's the spl at 2ms when both are turned on simultaneously?

Put it this way: if you calibrate a sub to 100dbs and then add a second sub does the first sub require the same, more, or less amplifier power to reach 100dbs assuming the seond sub is identical and level-matched with the first?

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #286 of 4612 Old 06-02-2011, 08:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

If you stack two subs ontop of one another in a room and calibrate each of them individually to play a 20hz tone at 100dbs at 2 meters, without altering anything, what's the spl at 2ms when both are turned on simultaneously?

James

+6dB. Add two more cabs, another +6dB.

If one cab is 100dB like you say, four cabs does 112dB with the MA5050's.

Not takes one cab, upgrades the amp to the FP14000, now this individual cab hits 106dB instead of 100dB. How does he get the entire system to gain +6dB?

Upgrades each cab's amp. In order to stack a second cab onto this upgraded one and gain +6dB it needs to have the same amp as the first. Same goes for adding two more cabs and gaining an additional +6dB.

Total output of the hypothetical FP14000 system is 118dB, +6dB over the MA5050 system.

One cab, +6dB. Four cabs, +6dB. There is no distinction.

If you need more, take it to PM. There's no need to f*ck up not's thread.
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post #287 of 4612 Old 06-02-2011, 08:48 PM
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I suppose an apology is in order...never posted under the influence before...for somre reason I was assuming that if you added just enought amplification to each cab to gain 1db per cab on their own that between the 4 and each pair being co-located, you'd gain around 6dbs total...again without having to sig increase the power to each cab.

Sorry, good for you notnyt.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #288 of 4612 Old 06-02-2011, 09:02 PM
 
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I suppose an apology is in order...never posted under the influence before...

Ah, this thread is your friend: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=153368
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post #289 of 4612 Old 06-04-2011, 05:48 AM
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wow wish I could afford one of these - great deal but still too much for my poor self
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post #290 of 4612 Old 06-04-2011, 06:19 AM
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I bought a DIY (DI-someone else) pb12+ woofer (not sure the version) with a 4 ohm load in a 48"x16" sonotube with variable tuning. It's basically a 16-46 or whatever that older passive model was.

Would a pyle pro PTA1400 even be an option?

I only am hoping for maybe 500w from it and need to keep costs down.

i would suggest starting a new thread for that instead of taking this one further off course.
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post #291 of 4612 Old 06-04-2011, 06:32 AM
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i would suggest starting a new thread for that instead of taking this one further off course.

I thought I did start one oops... meant to start one will delete
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post #292 of 4612 Old 06-04-2011, 04:38 PM
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Notnyt, at about what time in How To Train a Dragon did you almost bottom out your subs?

I have the BR for a few days and I don't think I'll watch it but want to check out the sceen.

God loves me, but everyone else thinks I'm an a$$hole.
My small dedicated theater.
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post #293 of 4612 Old 06-04-2011, 06:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNICRON-WMD View Post

Notnyt, at about what time in How To Train a Dragon did you almost bottom out your subs?

This should be the one, end of the film:

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Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

The most brutal scene in the movie is the giant dragon crashing into the ground. Not only does it pack a punch above 20 Hz, it has a simultaneous bottom that spans 2-15 Hz that would be demanding all by itself.


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post #294 of 4612 Old 06-05-2011, 02:26 AM
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Is now a good time for someone to explain to me what I am looking at in a graph like that. I sort of get it, I guess, just looking at it. But really I don't. Like, what is the bottom part of the picture compared to the top (not the blown up part)?
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post #295 of 4612 Old 06-05-2011, 07:02 AM
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<edit>
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post #296 of 4612 Old 06-05-2011, 12:18 PM
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Bosso, in you opinion is the Rat shack meter with the correction files good for rew sweeps? I realize its not a full calibrated mic.


The audessey guys didn't think to highly of it.
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post #297 of 4612 Old 06-05-2011, 12:30 PM
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'not tested a few rat meters recently. they aren't all exactly the same, but good enough for government work.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post20338792

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post #298 of 4612 Old 06-05-2011, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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rat shack meters seem to do best with just C weighting checked. Don't trust them above 1khz though.
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post #299 of 4612 Old 06-05-2011, 02:35 PM
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yeah thats what I thought, at the inlaws place i ran and audessey setup and after I was done with it I lost a lot of spl. I've always used test tones to set the levels on my systems and I understand that audyessey uses different tones to do everything but I have read conflicting reports around the diy setion on how good the calibration actually is.


I was always used to the room shaking effect of the ironhide flip but after I calibrated through audyessey it the output was barely there.
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post #300 of 4612 Old 06-09-2011, 07:11 AM
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I have one of these FP14000s on order, just shipped yesterday. At the moment, it will be powering a single lms ultra with passive radiators, wich I plans on getting a second Lms and passives. Until then, should I bridge the amp and turn the gain way down or just run it stereo off one channel?
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