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Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers

1M views 8K replies 554 participants last post by  jmilleril 
#1 · (Edited)
DO NOT MESSAGE ME ABOUT THESE AMPS. I have nothing to do with Sanway or purchasing these amps. Any information I have is in this thread. If you have questions, CONTACT THE MFR. The information is in this thread.

So in my quest for even more power, I ended up looking for the biggest amp I could find. That ended up to be the Lab Gruppen FP14000. However, I would need four of them, and a cost of $6500 a piece put them out of my range. Fortunately, the fine PRC of China does not care much for intellectual property, and has produced a magnificent clone. Actually, they produced many clones. The problem was finding a good one.

Tasso, CVR,and a few other companies will resell busted or QC failed amps, or even clones from another source. Many other companies will resell another company's amp and claim it as their own (shocking).

In my search, I found two suppliers who were producing their own units. These were Gisen and Sanway. I ended up purchasing from Sanway for a few reasons. First, they use higher capacity capacitors. Second, their heatsinks are actual copper. The only downside is that each amp has four fans that I will have to replace or put a resistor inline to quiet them down. I'm in the process of doing this now as I have a bunch of test fans. The fans in the amp are 24v. The amps are priced at $726 a piece. Quite the bargain if you feel comfortable wiring money to China with no recourse if your goods don't show up. It cost a little over $400 to ship them DHL to NY.


If someone wants to try one of the Gisen, be my guest. When I was going to order a sample to compare anyway, they told me they didn't have the parts on hand to build it. Two days later they told me they were good to go, but after that I didn't even want to risk it. If someone else wants to order one from there and compare, that would be cool, but the Sanway amps are great.

Anyway, onto the good stuff. These amps are monsters. My subs go so much louder now. Easily +6db over the MA-5050s in stereo mode at 4ohms (tested at 10hz). When the bass hits, it literally dims the lights in my house. I have 200a service. The amps are connected on four 30a breakers at 120v. The displays on these are nice. They will not blind you, and have nice level meters.

Now for the bad stuff. The amps weren't exactly perfect. The one issue I've seen so far is that one of the voltage protection switches when set to "hard" will cause the VPL light to light. This is only on one amp and I am going to contact Sanway about it. It's not a feature I'm using, so I don't really care. UPDATE: I have contacted Sanway. They have supposedly isolated the issue and are sending me a replacement part to fix the power supply board. I will update further when I receive more information. They said it was damaged by Franklinism which cracked me up. Franklinism is static electricity =]


UPDATE2: I have replaced the fans. The amp went from 75db to 52db at the front panel. They are nice and quiet now. However, the cooling is greatly reduced. I pummeled these for a few hours and could not get them to overheat in anything resembling a normal condition. I was running these HARD, very heavy dubstep at levels that became physically uncomfortable to be in the same room. They didn't come close to overheating. The only way I was able to get the temperatures to spike was to run them full out for over 10 minutes. Let me tell you, this wasn't fun. I turned off three of the amps, so I only had one enclosure and one amp running. The lights for -4 were on, and I turned up the knob another 3db. I finally was able to push it into uncomfortable territory. Beating on them for hours, I was only able to push it up to 73C at most. I was able to push it over 90 going flat out. The unmodified amp was on average 15-20C cooler. I didn't notice any performance decreases during any of this, and I would have pushed the amp further if I wasn't worried about melting the VC's of my very expensive drivers.

So, 300-400ohm resistor (using wire wound 5w) and 60mm fan and then an 80mm fan. It takes two of each of those per amp. Pics here, writeup here.


Here are some pics I've accrued from Sanway, and some pics of what I received. They shipped the amps DHL and they got here in 3-4 days. You can see their other clones on their alibaba page which also links to their real page. You can also email them at sanway.audio@gmail.com .

Pics from me:
























Pics from Sanway:























(older version)


Price List





Pictures of the 10000Q were also posted. It is very similar and looks to possibly use the same power supply with different amp modules.

I'm relinking the pictures here. Thanks DL86.



 
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#3,780 ·
Should be fine as long as you're not going to try to perform continuous high power tests and as long as the circuit doesn't already have a bunch of load on it.
 
#3,781 ·
I've decided to sell my horns and move to a IB with 4 IB318. I know the 14000 clone has a very low roll off (2.5hz?), do you guys know if the 10000q performs as well? A few members seem to have had good luck with theirs. I don't need much power, but I like the idea of putting my mains on the spare channel.


I'll be using oppo 103d for my source through a balanced minidsp, so as long as the 10000q is good to 5hz, I'll pull the trigger!
 
#3,783 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3780#post_24110506


I believe he 10Q is good down to 6.8hz. That is what the original one is spec'd out to.

Bummer. I could live with -3 at 5hz, but 6.8 is a deal breaker



Anybody know off their head the oppo 103 and minidsp 2x4's -3? I seem to recall they were so low that it's a non-issue...
 
#3,784 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by paskal9  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3750#post_24093312


indeed there's a test. a properly carried out bench test with scope, current draw and all.

and yet it's dismissed as not properly done and not conclusive enough. maybe the result doesn't please everyone.


some things we know for certain,

the clone isn't using the same parts as the original product.

the clone have an efficiency of around 60% at best.

Link?
 
#3,785 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumbo  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3780#post_24110831


Bummer. I could live with -3 at 5hz, but 6.8 is a deal breaker



Anybody know off their head the oppo 103 and minidsp 2x4's -3? I seem to recall they were so low that it's a non-issue...

I am pretty sure the Oppo was almost flat to DC. The Mini I thought had a roll of at 3hz. BUT I could be wrong. That being said it is a matter of what else do you have in your signal chain that is the worry. Most people I know that want UULF are fine with -3db at 6hz.
 
#3,786 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3780#post_24112054


I am pretty sure the Oppo was almost flat to DC. The Mini I thought had a roll of at 3hz. BUT I could be wrong. That being said it is a matter of what else do you have in your signal chain that is the worry. Most people I know that want UULF are fine with -3db at 6hz.

My chain will be oppo-minidsp-Amp, so the amp will be the deciding factor... The minidsp and 10000q would probably equate a 8hz -3db
 
#3,787 ·
All this talk of roll off at 5hz being a deal breaker etc just makes me laugh. It's so unimportant in every regard imaginable, it's just laughable. -3dB at 8hz? LOL common man, if thats a deal breaker, any peaks and valleys in your response should make you give up the hobby completely....
 
#3,788 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3780#post_24113863


All this talk of roll off at 5hz being a deal breaker etc just makes me laugh. It's so unimportant in every regard imaginable, it's just laughable. -3dB at 8hz? LOL common man, if thats a deal breaker, any peaks and valleys in your response should make you give up the hobby completely....

You're right. Selling everything in classifieds right now.
 
#3,789 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3780#post_24113863


All this talk of roll off at 5hz being a deal breaker etc just makes me laugh. It's so unimportant in every regard imaginable, it's just laughable. -3dB at 8hz? LOL common man, if thats a deal breaker, any peaks and valleys in your response should make you give up the hobby completely....

Seriously though, I have heard mention the idea of adding a very low ULF boost to compensate for the amp/electronics rolloff. If the rolloff is ahead (in the signal chain) of your minidsp, you don't even lose headroom; you just put back what you lost. Of course you have to get creative to build an eq point below 10 hz, but I assume it can be done with a high pass/high shelf combo.



@Stumbo, if you don't need much power, a clone seems like the wrong tool for the job. Just get a known-flat medium-watt amp and save some money. Somewhat related: I have a FP10000q and it was *significantly* flatter than my inuke 6000. I don't know exactly by how much and don't have the electronics to tell properly, but I did a REW sweep before and after amp swap changing no other variables, and the clone went way lower. However, by tweaking eq points I was able to get matching graphs in practice. I may be giving up headroom, but try as might, in practice I can't find real
 
#3,790 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy497  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3780#post_24114028



@Stumbo, if you don't need much power, a clone seems like the wrong tool for the job. Just get a known-flat medium-watt amp and save some money. Somewhat related: I have a FP10000q and it was *significantly* flatter than my inuke 6000. I don't know exactly by how much and don't have the electronics to tell properly, but I did a REW sweep before and after amp swap changing no other variables, and the clone went way lower. However, by tweaking eq points I was able to get matching graphs in practice. I may be giving up headroom, but try as might, in practice I can't find real
 
#3,791 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3780#post_24113863


All this talk of roll off at 5hz being a deal breaker etc just makes me laugh. It's so unimportant in every regard imaginable, it's just laughable. -3dB at 8hz? LOL common man, if thats a deal breaker, any peaks and valleys in your response should make you give up the hobby completely....

How about it?!?!?!


The insanity never sleeps! Too funny!
 
#3,793 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by triplington  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3780#post_24120764


Why not just buy 2 FP14000, there's a deal on now that makes them cheaper than 1 FP10000. It's an unknown supplier, but I've got 1 on the way.

When is it arriving? How was the purchasing process? What are you using them for? I know several people are eagerly awaiting your results.
 
#3,794 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by triplington  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3700_100#post_24120764


Why not just buy 2 FP14000, there's a deal on now that makes them cheaper than 1 FP10000. It's an unknown supplier, but I've got 1 on the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by laeriq  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3700_100#post_24121496


When is it arriving? How was the purchasing process? What are you using them for? I know several people are eagerly awaiting your results.

Yeah, let us know if that comes through ok.


If so, and they measure similarly to the Sanway clones, it could be a game changer....just ridiculous.
 
#3,795 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by triplington  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3780#post_24120764


Why not just buy 2 FP14000, there's a deal on now that makes them cheaper than 1 FP10000. It's an unknown supplier, but I've got 1 on the way.

I'm patiently waiting for your results
 
#3,797 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3780#post_24113863


All this talk of roll off at 5hz being a deal breaker etc just makes me laugh. It's so unimportant in every regard imaginable, it's just laughable. -3dB at 8hz? LOL common man, if thats a deal breaker, any peaks and valleys in your response should make you give up the hobby completely....

What do dips and valleys have to do with signal chain roll off?


"Unimportant in every regard imaginable"?


Always got a chuckle from the 'accuracy is laughable' crowd.


I didn't need a measurement to know the difference in replay between these 2 amps:

http://www.imagehousing.com/image/1175846


But hey, since it doesn't matter at all to some, the amp with the stupid roll off is for sale... cheap.
 
#3,798 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3780#post_24123140


What do dips and valleys have to do with signal chain roll off?


"Unimportant in every regard imaginable"?


Always got a chuckle from the 'accuracy is laughable' crowd.


I didn't need a measurement to know the difference in replay between these 2 amps:

http://www.imagehousing.com/image/1175846


But hey, since it doesn't matter at all to some, the amp with the stupid roll off is for sale... cheap.

I'm saying that -3dB at 8hz is nothing and shouldn't be worried about. I'm one of the biggest bassheads on these forums and -3dB at 8hz is laughable to be worried about that low to be a dealbreaker on an amp. Accuracy be dammed at 8hz because 99.99999% of peoples system can't do it properly even if it was flat to 5hz anyways. Room gain will likely bring that 3dB loss back or more and it will not be an issue.


peaks and valleys are used as an example of loss of spl, it was just an example and a joke.......
 
#3,799 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3780#post_24124612


I'm saying that -3dB at 8hz is nothing and shouldn't be worried about. I'm one of the biggest bassheads on these forums and -3dB at 8hz is laughable to be worried about that low to be a dealbreaker on an amp. Accuracy be dammed at 8hz because 99.99999% of peoples system can't do it properly even if it was flat to 5hz anyways. Room gain will likely bring that 3dB loss back or more and it will not be an issue.


peaks and valleys are used as an example of loss of spl, it was just an example and a joke.......

We aren't talking about percents of people's systems.


If an amp is -3dB @ 8 Hz, then it's -15dB @ 3 Hz. That's a 6dB difference @ 3 Hz from an amp that's -3dB @ 5 Hz. That would mean the difference between 4 x 18" and 8 x 18" or a 14KW amp that's -3dB @ 8 Hz vs a 4KW amp that's -3dB @ 5 Hz.


To throw drivers at the situation and/or rig some intricate EQ fix would seem the hard way to address the problem vs doing a bit of homework before the amp purchase.


IOW, it's a valid concern that hardly warranted the 'laughable' comment.
 
#3,800 ·
It's a concern to someone who has a system capable enough, the problem is, VERY few people do. Its about priorities, that would be very far down the list of what to worry about when buying a amp. Sure people do and will but thats their deal.

How bout you enlighten me on what amp you'd use? needing 3000 watts per channel..... and don't say powersoft, since not many will bother paying that much for a HT amp
 
#3,801 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3780#post_24125171


It's a concern to someone who has a system capable enough, the problem is, VERY few people do. Its about priorities, that would be very far down the list of what to worry about when buying a amp. Sure people do and will but thats their deal.

How bout you enlighten me on what amp you'd use? needing 3000 watts per channel..... and don't say powersoft, since not many will bother paying that much for a HT amp

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make...


Do you feel reference down to 5hz is excessive?


We'll I feel dual ghorns are excessive.... But I'm not laughing at you. I think it's awesome!
 
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