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Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers

1M views 8K replies 554 participants last post by  jmilleril 
#1 · (Edited)
DO NOT MESSAGE ME ABOUT THESE AMPS. I have nothing to do with Sanway or purchasing these amps. Any information I have is in this thread. If you have questions, CONTACT THE MFR. The information is in this thread.

So in my quest for even more power, I ended up looking for the biggest amp I could find. That ended up to be the Lab Gruppen FP14000. However, I would need four of them, and a cost of $6500 a piece put them out of my range. Fortunately, the fine PRC of China does not care much for intellectual property, and has produced a magnificent clone. Actually, they produced many clones. The problem was finding a good one.

Tasso, CVR,and a few other companies will resell busted or QC failed amps, or even clones from another source. Many other companies will resell another company's amp and claim it as their own (shocking).

In my search, I found two suppliers who were producing their own units. These were Gisen and Sanway. I ended up purchasing from Sanway for a few reasons. First, they use higher capacity capacitors. Second, their heatsinks are actual copper. The only downside is that each amp has four fans that I will have to replace or put a resistor inline to quiet them down. I'm in the process of doing this now as I have a bunch of test fans. The fans in the amp are 24v. The amps are priced at $726 a piece. Quite the bargain if you feel comfortable wiring money to China with no recourse if your goods don't show up. It cost a little over $400 to ship them DHL to NY.


If someone wants to try one of the Gisen, be my guest. When I was going to order a sample to compare anyway, they told me they didn't have the parts on hand to build it. Two days later they told me they were good to go, but after that I didn't even want to risk it. If someone else wants to order one from there and compare, that would be cool, but the Sanway amps are great.

Anyway, onto the good stuff. These amps are monsters. My subs go so much louder now. Easily +6db over the MA-5050s in stereo mode at 4ohms (tested at 10hz). When the bass hits, it literally dims the lights in my house. I have 200a service. The amps are connected on four 30a breakers at 120v. The displays on these are nice. They will not blind you, and have nice level meters.

Now for the bad stuff. The amps weren't exactly perfect. The one issue I've seen so far is that one of the voltage protection switches when set to "hard" will cause the VPL light to light. This is only on one amp and I am going to contact Sanway about it. It's not a feature I'm using, so I don't really care. UPDATE: I have contacted Sanway. They have supposedly isolated the issue and are sending me a replacement part to fix the power supply board. I will update further when I receive more information. They said it was damaged by Franklinism which cracked me up. Franklinism is static electricity =]


UPDATE2: I have replaced the fans. The amp went from 75db to 52db at the front panel. They are nice and quiet now. However, the cooling is greatly reduced. I pummeled these for a few hours and could not get them to overheat in anything resembling a normal condition. I was running these HARD, very heavy dubstep at levels that became physically uncomfortable to be in the same room. They didn't come close to overheating. The only way I was able to get the temperatures to spike was to run them full out for over 10 minutes. Let me tell you, this wasn't fun. I turned off three of the amps, so I only had one enclosure and one amp running. The lights for -4 were on, and I turned up the knob another 3db. I finally was able to push it into uncomfortable territory. Beating on them for hours, I was only able to push it up to 73C at most. I was able to push it over 90 going flat out. The unmodified amp was on average 15-20C cooler. I didn't notice any performance decreases during any of this, and I would have pushed the amp further if I wasn't worried about melting the VC's of my very expensive drivers.

So, 300-400ohm resistor (using wire wound 5w) and 60mm fan and then an 80mm fan. It takes two of each of those per amp. Pics here, writeup here.


Here are some pics I've accrued from Sanway, and some pics of what I received. They shipped the amps DHL and they got here in 3-4 days. You can see their other clones on their alibaba page which also links to their real page. You can also email them at sanway.audio@gmail.com .

Pics from me:
























Pics from Sanway:























(older version)


Price List





Pictures of the 10000Q were also posted. It is very similar and looks to possibly use the same power supply with different amp modules.

I'm relinking the pictures here. Thanks DL86.



 
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#3,827 ·
Concentrating only on left side dip switches 1-4, If I understand correctly I am now bridged with 44DB gain (amp set to max gain) correct?


Now moving to the dip switches on the right from 1-8 they are actually divided 1-4 and 5-8 so as pictured they are currently set to 195v and soft correct?


 
#3,829 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by 316  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3800_50#post_24163675


Concentrating only on dip switches 1-4 If I understand correctly I am now bridged with 44DB gain correct?

Right row of switches change 4 and 8 to up position
 
#3,831 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by 316  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3800_50#post_24163742


Perfect...you now have full power.


Don't worry...you said you were driving 8 SI's...no problem for the SI's

I'm driving 2500Watts to 2x SI's with a 10000Q though and they handle it no problem.


Enjoy!
 
#3,833 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by 316  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3800_100#post_24163577


Mine has the medical plug, good advice on the previous owner. I'm assuming 120v but I don't want to assume anything with this amp. I want to make sure I have everything correct before I even plug it in which brings me to my other question,


Pictured are my current settings on the amp. I will be using it in bridged mode for a 4ohm load (eight SI 18" subs). From what I understand I want hard start for the subs after that its all a big blurry mess with all these settings! UGH!!

Careful...
 
#3,834 ·
Yes sir... Are you referring to the amp or drivers?


I was reading and if I remember correctly the debate was whether or not a problem can occur with a 2ohm load right? But a 4ohm load is okay with the FP14000....Not sure about bridged 4ohm but I seem to remember it being okay.


I'll have to dig back a little bit, I'm not in a rush to power it up in fact I was thinking of running the amp in stereo mode first at 8ohms just to make sure the amp and speakers are okay, break in the drivers and then switch over to max power.


My next step is to verify proper settings with the UMC-200 LFE filters before applying any power.
 
#3,837 ·
Few questions about the SANWAY FP14000. Where can you buy the FP14000? Can you use this amp with a receiver that got the LFE rca out for Subwoofer?


Click the picture to enlarge?





I looked at the back of the FP14000 and I do not see any RCA connection. I am thinking of buying this amp to drive 2 separate 18" subwoofers. Maybe this amp is not made to connect with a regular A/V receiver. My receiver does not have XLR connection.
 
#3,839 ·
#3,840 ·
Sorry guys cant remember but can only go by Not's pictures, do these have a hard wired power plug?


I don't think they are IEC and after seeing AV mention medical grade I wondered about this. I still have not purchased one yet but in about 4months if I cant get a Peavey 7500 then I am going to probably buy one of these finally.
 
#3,841 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3810#post_24166540


Sorry guys cant remember but can only go by Not's pictures, do these have a hard wired power plug?


I don't think they are IEC and after seeing AV mention medical grade I wondered about this. I still have not purchased one yet but in about 4months if I cant get a Peavey 7500 then I am going to probably buy one of these finally.

Yes, the cord is attached to the amp.
 
#3,845 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3800_100#post_24166377


Basically, if I want to run a dual subwoofers, I need to get a Y Splitter and buy 2 of the XLR Male to RCA Male which will connect to the back of the FP14000. Is that how everyone is doing it?

I don't. But I live on the moon...
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3800_100#post_24167591


If i recall, to achieve full power output at 4ohms requires a 30 amp outlet. How much could be expected for a 20amp outlet? Talking sustained not peak.

I already answered this back on page #9999999999999999999
but.... 120v x 20a = 1200watts x2 sustained. Assuming 100% efficiency (which is impossible).
 
#3,848 ·
I need to buy 7 clone amps, and sell all of my other amps, except my iTech8000 (I'm keeping that).

In the end I will have 4 FP10k's and 3 FP14k's plus my iT8k; and I will need to use every single channel of that.


movie-mode: 68000 burst-watts @ 4ohms, and 89000 burst-watts @ 2ohms (in-theory)


music-mode: 51200 burst-watts @ 4ohms, and 69000 burst-watts @ 2ohms (in-theory)


Going to 16 subwoofers and 7 SEOS's.


That might dim some lights (in the whole-block!!!!!!!)



It will also require all the channels of 3 DCX's (of which I currently have 2 of them).


I checked my usage readings as of today:

24amps RMS @ 120volts RMS: 1 of 3 rows of lights + full AV system + space heater = 2880watts RMS (if I turned on the Projector, popcorn maker, and all lights it might be another 52% higher, maybe).

15amps RMS @ 120volts RMS : 1 of 3 rows of lights + full AV system at a good volume = 150w RMS + 1650watts RMS

13amps RMS @ 120volts RMS : 1 of 3 rows of lights + full AV system at idle = 150w RMS + 1410watts RMS


My theater has a 200amp panel, 24000watts RMS and of that 20400watts RMS is wired for the AV system circuit breakers.


So I'm barely over 10% utilization as of today.
 
#3,849 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3840#post_24187881


I need to buy 7 clone amps, and sell all of my other amps, except my iTech8000 (I'm keeping that).

In the end I will have 4 FP10k's and 3 FP14k's plus my iT8k; and I will need to use every single channel of that.


movie-mode: 68000 burst-watts @ 4ohms, and 89000 burst-watts @ 2ohms (in-theory)


music-mode: 51200 burst-watts @ 4ohms, and 69000 burst-watts @ 2ohms (in-theory)


Going to 16 subwoofers and 7 SEOS's.


That might dim some lights (in the whole-block!!!!!!!)



It will also require all the channels of 3 DCX's (of which I currently have 2 of them).


I checked my usage readings as of today:

24amps RMS @ 120volts RMS: 1 of 3 rows of lights + full AV system + space heater = 2880watts RMS (if I turned on the Projector, popcorn maker, and all lights it might be another 52% higher, maybe).

15amps RMS @ 120volts RMS : 1 of 3 rows of lights + full AV system at a good volume = 150w RMS + 1650watts RMS

13amps RMS @ 120volts RMS : 1 of 3 rows of lights + full AV system at idle = 150w RMS + 1410watts RMS


My theater has a 200amp panel, 24000watts RMS and of that 20400watts RMS is wired for the AV system circuit breakers.


So I'm barely over 10% utilization as of today.

The 'cool' factor alone is worth all of it...



I remembered the first Imax I ever went to, and they announced 'Experience 10,000 watts of raw power'... I was so excited!!!


Now, 'meh'... what's 10,000???


Ok, here's my own experiment with power.. I bought a single FP10K to power my LCR Noesis.. it was for a time giving me the output i wanted which was more than what my old Marantz could do.


Then once I got my Onkyo 3009 which is stable to 4 Ohms, I was able to play as loud as i wanted without ever hitting the clip lights.


That means, (at 4 ohms the onkyo is probably putting out 280 watts)... 3x280 watts (4 ohms) = 840 Watts total was all I needed to equal the 10,000 watts from my FP 10,000...


As for subs, I guess that's another matter altogether... A couple of HSUs rated at 1000 watts each, and the OS with 6000watts (burstable to 12,000)
 
#3,850 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3800_100#post_24187881


I need to buy 7 clone amps, and sell all of my other amps, except my iTech8000 (I'm keeping that).

In the end I will have 4 FP10k's and 3 FP14k's plus my iT8k; and I will need to use every single channel of that.


movie-mode: 68000 burst-watts @ 4ohms, and 89000 burst-watts @ 2ohms (in-theory)


music-mode: 51200 burst-watts @ 4ohms, and 69000 burst-watts @ 2ohms (in-theory)


Going to 16 subwoofers and 7 SEOS's.


That might dim some lights (in the whole-block!!!!!!!)



It will also require all the channels of 3 DCX's (of which I currently have 2 of them).


I checked my usage readings as of today:

24amps RMS @ 120volts RMS: 1 of 3 rows of lights + full AV system + space heater = 2880watts RMS (if I turned on the Projector, popcorn maker, and all lights it might be another 52% higher, maybe).

15amps RMS @ 120volts RMS : 1 of 3 rows of lights + full AV system at a good volume = 150w RMS + 1650watts RMS

13amps RMS @ 120volts RMS : 1 of 3 rows of lights + full AV system at idle = 150w RMS + 1410watts RMS


My theater has a 200amp panel, 24000watts RMS and of that 20400watts RMS is wired for the AV system circuit breakers.


So I'm barely over 10% utilization as of today.


Whew! Now I don't feel so bad wanting another FP14000 for my eight 18's
Be careful, that fault line over here in California is pretty fragile !!
 
#3,851 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek  /t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/3800_100#post_24188420


That means, (at 4 ohms the onkyo is probably putting out 280 watts)... 3x280 watts (4 ohms) = 840 Watts total was all I needed to equal the 10,000 watts from my FP 10,000...

Your clone must have been broken then, cause I'm able to blow up two LMS's with one fp10k.



^^^^ This... still not clipping, and only 50% power output... Now multiply that times 14... that's how much power 69,000watts is.



Your Onkyo can beat this you say?
 
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