Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers - Page 156 - AVS Forum
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Old 10-19-2014, 12:34 AM
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Ok, so I took off the top board to see what was up with the lower board.

This is the top board channel A (which I believe to be OK).



Underneath we have board for chB.



Fobar.



It looks like the whole thing overheated! The thermostat is only hooked up to the heat sink of channel A.



So I guess the moral of the story is, do not get the home theater version with thermostat.

What would you guys do? I'm absolutely going to disable that thermostat if I get to buy a new board. I can never imagine they replace it at no cost, lol.

DAC/Preamp: miniDSP 4x10 HD and Mytek 192 Stereo DSD DAC
Speakers: JBL 4343B, JBL 4430 and JBL 120Ti
Amplifiers: Emotiva XPR-1, Denon POA 1500, QSC GX5 and Sanway's LabGruppen FP14000 clone
Sub: DIY LMS Ultra 5400
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Old 10-19-2014, 04:02 AM - Thread Starter
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That's not a thermostat problem. Something shorted. Contact Johnson. Looks like the fuses might have popped, cracked, then arced to the board.
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Old 10-19-2014, 01:52 PM
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You're probably right. I've removed the board to inspect further. There are two obvious places where it has been damaged.



Closeups






and here



Rare side of the board seems scratched up etc.





I have contacted Mr Johnson @ Sanway for aid. To me it seems to have been compromised from the get go (all the scratches and rails on board has been compromised). It seems to me like I need to buy a new board. Hopefully it'll run smoothly.

DAC/Preamp: miniDSP 4x10 HD and Mytek 192 Stereo DSD DAC
Speakers: JBL 4343B, JBL 4430 and JBL 120Ti
Amplifiers: Emotiva XPR-1, Denon POA 1500, QSC GX5 and Sanway's LabGruppen FP14000 clone
Sub: DIY LMS Ultra 5400
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Old 10-19-2014, 02:42 PM
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an amp with this kind of draw, should i run 10/3 romex to a panel and get the 240v version?
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Old 10-19-2014, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
That's not a thermostat problem. Something shorted. Contact Johnson. Looks like the fuses might have popped, cracked, then arced to the board.
I agree, the amp would typically shutdown well before there is any permanent damage.

Hopefully, you can get it sorted out through a quick board swap.


Last edited by jpmst3; 10-19-2014 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 10-19-2014, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post
I agree, the would typically shutdown well before there is any permanent damage.

Hopefully, you can get it sorted out through a quick board swap.
Yes, hopefully it's not something else that made it pop. Got my hopes up seeing all the scratches on the faulty board. If all fails I'll have to fork out for a new one, :,(

DAC/Preamp: miniDSP 4x10 HD and Mytek 192 Stereo DSD DAC
Speakers: JBL 4343B, JBL 4430 and JBL 120Ti
Amplifiers: Emotiva XPR-1, Denon POA 1500, QSC GX5 and Sanway's LabGruppen FP14000 clone
Sub: DIY LMS Ultra 5400
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Old 10-19-2014, 04:39 PM
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My 10000Q gave up the ghost in rather spectacular fashion at my show yesterday. I smelled something funny coming from the area of the amp rack but couldn't isolate it. About an hour later I heard a few loud pops and looked over at the amp rack and saw smoke and flames inside the 10000Q. All my amps were bought a year ago almost to date. See pics below.

Just wanted to update the forum. I have a email in to Johnson and will follow up with how he handles it.
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Old 10-19-2014, 10:53 PM
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Sanway and Mr Johnson is determined to help me, and they will send me a new board at their expense because the amplifier is so new. We're now in the process of checking if the other board is ok.

So Sanway is keen to keep their customers happy, which is great news for everyone who contemplates a clone. Knowing I'm in good hands: As soon as this issue has been resolved I will order a FP10000Q for my 4 midbass modules.

DAC/Preamp: miniDSP 4x10 HD and Mytek 192 Stereo DSD DAC
Speakers: JBL 4343B, JBL 4430 and JBL 120Ti
Amplifiers: Emotiva XPR-1, Denon POA 1500, QSC GX5 and Sanway's LabGruppen FP14000 clone
Sub: DIY LMS Ultra 5400
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Old 10-20-2014, 02:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GizzeGutten View Post
Sanway and Mr Johnson is determined to help me, and they will send me a new board at their expense because the amplifier is so new. We're now in the process of checking if the other board is ok.

So Sanway is keen to keep their customers happy, which is great news for everyone who contemplates a clone. Knowing I'm in good hands: As soon as this issue has been resolved I will order a FP10000Q for my 4 midbass modules.
That, to me, sounds like a "warranty" from Sanway.

Hummm...

We need to find out how long this "warranty period" is....

I tried to talk Sanway (Johnson) into letting me ship them one of my old broken amps for them to replace it with a new one... I was even willing to cover the shipping and throw in $300 for the trade in...

It sounded logical to me...Johnson, on the other hand, didn't entertain it for a second. Like he forgot how to speak english that day...lol.
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Old 10-20-2014, 03:06 AM
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Hehe, I have asked him many questions and he has always been very polite and helpful. They sent me FP10000Q when I ordered the first FP14k, and I did him a favor that time by offering to sell it for him here locally, or ship it to his next customer so as to avoid excessive shipping cost for them. He ended up sending me a FP14k, then I held onto the FP10000Q and shipped it to his next customer at his request, then he paid me back shipping expenses. He was very great full that I helped him out on that one, so it might be an influence in his decision here?

Or maybe they realize that they will win big on keeping customers happy?

DAC/Preamp: miniDSP 4x10 HD and Mytek 192 Stereo DSD DAC
Speakers: JBL 4343B, JBL 4430 and JBL 120Ti
Amplifiers: Emotiva XPR-1, Denon POA 1500, QSC GX5 and Sanway's LabGruppen FP14000 clone
Sub: DIY LMS Ultra 5400
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Old 10-20-2014, 05:29 PM
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I would not suggest ever running these amps without any forced air cooling. Arterial they like 110 watt without a load?

I think the resistor cluster that burned on your amp board is a cluster that gets hot even without a load. I have measured on a fp 140 00 about 140 F on both channels of the 14000 around that location. No airflow on hot parts is bad for electronics.

Anyone know if an fp 140 00 with fans ever goes into high-speed speed mode? Mine has never gone into high speed mode though I am only using one channel so far with the Not fan mod.
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Old 10-23-2014, 11:21 PM
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I'm in the process of checking out board B (the one that doesn't look fried) with the help of Sanway. They sent me this image and are asking me to measure the voltage at points A, B, C and D.



Do they mean I should put the multimeter at point (A and B) and then (C and D) to read the voltage?

So one prong at point A and the other one on B, it should read 11V, then one prong at point C and another one on point D and it should read 198V?


DAC/Preamp: miniDSP 4x10 HD and Mytek 192 Stereo DSD DAC
Speakers: JBL 4343B, JBL 4430 and JBL 120Ti
Amplifiers: Emotiva XPR-1, Denon POA 1500, QSC GX5 and Sanway's LabGruppen FP14000 clone
Sub: DIY LMS Ultra 5400
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Old 10-24-2014, 03:02 AM
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Wish I could help you. I hope Not finds this post and is able to help you out.
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Old 10-24-2014, 04:00 AM
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LOL, yes, not ready to die just yet.

In lack of being able to describe it, here's what I'm asking:

(1) Should I measure AC or DC?
(2) Point A and B is not really easy to make out. Probably base of the cap there, but not sure.
(3) Should I measure like this:

(3.1)


or (3.2)


DAC/Preamp: miniDSP 4x10 HD and Mytek 192 Stereo DSD DAC
Speakers: JBL 4343B, JBL 4430 and JBL 120Ti
Amplifiers: Emotiva XPR-1, Denon POA 1500, QSC GX5 and Sanway's LabGruppen FP14000 clone
Sub: DIY LMS Ultra 5400
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Old 10-24-2014, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PorkchopExpr3ss View Post
an amp with this kind of draw, should i run 10/3 romex to a panel and get the 240v version?
I ran #6 for a 3x20amp sub panel. Outlets are just below the sub panel so made use of running the #6 for three outlets.
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Old 10-24-2014, 08:50 AM
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Dbl post
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Old 10-24-2014, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GizzeGutten View Post
I'm in the process of checking out board B (the one that doesn't look fried) with the help of Sanway. They sent me this image and are asking me to measure the voltage at points A, B, C and D.



Do they mean I should put the multimeter at point (A and B) and then (C and D) to read the voltage?

So one prong at point A and the other one on B, it should read 11V, then one prong at point C and another one on point D and it should read 198V?



I work on electronic equipment in a semiconductor wafer fab that manufactures IC's, and that question that you asked here on that PC board is a great question! I would highly recommend asking that exact question to Sanway to get clarification on the voltage measuring reference points. The question I would ask is, are these measurements between these combination of these points, or are these measurements in reference to chassis ground, or on some other reference point, or both. If you don't get the right reference point, the measurements won't mean a thing! There might be a slight English translation problem here. Most likely this is a DC voltage reading, but you should also get that clarified.

One other observation: That wire that is floating in the air above the two fuse holders on that pitcher of the bad PC board that you posted a ways back looks like a trace that popped up off the PC board during that catastrophic short circuit you had on that bad board. I've seen this happen in the past on some of the PC boards that I've had to repair in that wafer fab. It's surprising what kind of damage a catastrophic short circuit on a PC board can cause, and where it travels to. Especially in light of how much current this amplifier uses and puts out.
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Old Yesterday, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GizzeGutten View Post
LOL, yes, not ready to die just yet.

In lack of being able to describe it, here's what I'm asking:

(1) Should I measure AC or DC?
(2) Point A and B is not really easy to make out. Probably base of the cap there, but not sure.
(3) Should I measure like this:

(3.1)


or (3.2)

*
*
*
*
*
Hi GizzeGutten,

In regards to your questions....

There technically is no + or - when reading AC since by AC's nature the signal is always transitioning between the two. The -11V is a DC voltage. Johnson could have said "-11VDC". The point on the copper is the heatsink and that would be your ground.
Hope this helps.

*
*
*
*
*

In regards to *MY* issue posted just before yours, Johnson suggested I replace both octocoupler IC's on my "B" channel. He was 100% right. I ordered them from Mouser. got them today and swapped them out. Issue RESOLVED!

See the Supercharged 10second II here :
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3131345
See the ConcreteBunker Build w/8x18" IB subs here:
coming soon......

Last edited by rms8; Yesterday at 08:35 AM.
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