Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers - Page 166 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #4951 of 5026 Old 03-23-2015, 01:58 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
Each channel has a level control on the front and gain dip switches on the back.
Then FB10k is perfect! Saves me the cost of a tiny amp.
ronny31 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4952 of 5026 Old 03-23-2015, 01:58 AM
Senior Member
 
Bassfeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: British Living & Working In Indonesia
Posts: 231
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 15
If you using Horn Speakers i highly suggest ATI Amplifiers. I had 101 DB horns in the past every single amp made a hissing noise except the ATI amplifier. They sound cleaner too.

3 X Quested LT20 Total: $11,700.00 For all 3!
2 X Quested LT10 Total: $4,800.00 for Pair
4 X Quested LT8 Total: $4,000.00 ALL 4 SOLD!!!
3 X Quested AP1550 Amplifiers with Filter Cards Installed used as Mono Blocks for the LT20 Loudspeaker $5700.00 for all 3 Amplifiers.
2 x Quested AP750 Amplifiers $ $2450.00 for both amplifiers.
Bassfeen is offline  
post #4953 of 5026 Old 03-23-2015, 05:05 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassfeen View Post
If you using Horn Speakers i highly suggest ATI Amplifiers. I had 101 DB horns in the past every single amp made a hissing noise except the ATI amplifier. They sound cleaner too.
Any reported hissing from the FP/FB10k clone from Sanway? These horns are 112db 1w/m in a 90x40 horn (and 100w rms so 130db theoretical continuous db).
ronny31 is offline  
post #4954 of 5026 Old 03-23-2015, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 5,449
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 783 Post(s)
Liked: 815
Dude, you don't need a 10kw amp for 112db sensitivity horns. I'd definitely recommend against it. Look at some of the Emotiva stuff.
brettus likes this.
notnyt is online now  
post #4955 of 5026 Old 03-23-2015, 11:44 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
Dude, you don't need a 10kw amp for 112db sensitivity horns. I'd definitely recommend against it. Look at some of the Emotiva stuff.
Don't NEED any of this, do we? :P
The MFs are two pairs 8ohm 500w 12" 101db 2.83v 1m (200hz to 2000hz, then tapering off at both ends). To go with one pair of horns. Then doubling up in numbers over time, adding amps as required (can probably fit like 10 pairs of horns on one pair of FP10k channels, haven't really done the math yet). Eventually to include a pair or two of 18" 1500-2000w high efficiency LF drivers. If I go for a cheaper amp next to a good amp for the MFs then its more expensive than just going for one good FP10k. And I'd get worse S/N and less thermal overhead, and less future headroom (I can add horns to these two channels for quite some time without needing another amp).
ronny31 is offline  
post #4956 of 5026 Old 03-23-2015, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 5,449
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 783 Post(s)
Liked: 815
s/n is generally best near max output, you really need something with a low noise floor for horns like that. I don't know the performance of the fp10k in this regard.
notnyt is online now  
post #4957 of 5026 Old 03-23-2015, 12:50 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
s/n is generally best near max output, you really need something with a low noise floor for horns like that. I don't know the performance of the fp10k in this regard.
That's why I asked if there has been reported any hiss at HF. If its an inaudible noise floor, its not a problem.
ronny31 is offline  
post #4958 of 5026 Old 03-23-2015, 07:35 PM
Senior Member
 
johnson636's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
I know someone local with one, will see if they want to volunteer it for abuse.
Is there any rhyme or reason as to how one user/s say they absolutely punish their clone without a single problem and others say they run theirs at moderate levels and have all sorts of board and power supply issues; User error, bad batch, etc. If it is indeed user error, I and I'm sure others would like to avoid such errors. Don't get me wrong, replacing boards and power supplies is a part of my job description, but I'd rather not do that once I make it home; I'd rather enjoy a functioning piece of equipment
johnson636 is offline  
post #4959 of 5026 Old 03-23-2015, 07:47 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I don't know anything beyond AVS as far as the clones, but they appear to be making almost constant improvements on them....

The newer clones seem to be able to do lower OHM, which I would still not recommend below 4 Ohm until a new unit is on a bench and beaten hard.

It sure seams the newer clone FPs are capable of taking a beating in all but road crew / outdoor situations. But I don't have much info. I would not be afraid of using a few in my local carp band shows, but I am getting old and am now looking at cheaper Class D as I don't like hauling around heavy gear anymore. I am even looking at going lighter for my bass guitar amp and cabinet if I can find a good replacement sound.

Getting a good e.q.ed sound out of anything can take a good deal of time. Time is seems so much more valuable as we get older, even doing something we enjoy
brettus likes this.
cellarnoise is offline  
post #4960 of 5026 Old 03-24-2015, 03:51 PM
Senior Member
 
GizzeGutten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 257
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Has anyone uninstalled the thermostat (fan) control in FP14000 home theater version before?

DAC/Preamp: miniDSP 4x10 HD
Speakers: JBL 4343B, JBL 4430 and JBL 120Ti
Amplifiers: Emotiva XPR-1, Denon POA 1500, QSC GX5 and Sanway's LabGruppen FP14000 clone
Midbass modules: 4x DIY JBL 2226
Sub: 4x DIY LMS Ultra 5400
GizzeGutten is offline  
post #4961 of 5026 Old 03-27-2015, 02:23 AM
Member
 
Monkeys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Need advice. I'm trying to repair a power cycling FP10K with the variable resistor fix. I've added a variable resistor set to 2.5k ohms to the specified points and the amp seems to be staying stable, however it has once tripped my power circuit break, and when I check the voltage at the 220V and 153V point, I get 270V and 170V respectively!?

Should I try setting it to an even higher resistance?

This is the first time I've tried working with something like this so I'm scared to make the problem worse..
Monkeys is offline  
post #4962 of 5026 Old 03-27-2015, 03:14 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 5,449
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 783 Post(s)
Liked: 815
notnyt is online now  
post #4963 of 5026 Old 03-27-2015, 03:21 AM
Member
 
Monkeys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Yes I've contacted Johnson and am awaiting a reply.

I've managed to get the 153V points stable at roughly 153V with the resistor set to around 6k ohms, but the 220V points are still reading at around 280V??
Monkeys is offline  
post #4964 of 5026 Old 03-27-2015, 02:25 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeys View Post
Yes I've contacted Johnson and am awaiting a reply.

I've managed to get the 153V points stable at roughly 153V with the resistor set to around 6k ohms, but the 220V points are still reading at around 280V??
Whats Johnson email? I only have Anne. I want info for where to put my adjustable resistor on my FB14K
MagnumMafia05 is online now  
post #4965 of 5026 Old 03-27-2015, 04:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 868
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 309 Post(s)
Liked: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumMafia05 View Post
Whats Johnson email? I only have Anne. I want info for where to put my adjustable resistor on my FB14K
sales@china-sanway.com
dwaleke is offline  
post #4966 of 5026 Old 03-28-2015, 12:27 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Hello everybody, my name is Nic

Bit of a long post but if you bought these amps you really wanna read this, trust me.

I have recently purchased an FP 14000 from Sanway (220V) which I'm going to use to run four RCF LF18G401 speakers into two horn loaded cabinets.

I haven't had the opportunity to run both at full power for now as only one of the two cabs is ready, but I have some doubts.

1) The power cord has a Schuko connector which, as far as I know, should be able to hold up to 16A. However, the FP 14000 should definitely pull more than that, say 30A+ so am I missing something or they have built an amplifier with a connector not capable to hold up its current draw?
If that is the case what would the amp do? Would it still draw 30A from a 16A socket through a 16A connector?

2) This one's a bit more frightening, after hearing and seeing so much PA equipment I could remember hearing some speakers from the brand "AdMark" few years ago. The setup I heard had 3*Line Array boxes and two double 18" reflex subs, the quality was very good and the power was surprising.
I knew their products were built in China but the whole thing LITERALLY disappeared from the web. Their products, website, reviews and whatnot have suddenly gone missing and I couldn't find them anymore.
But then, after 3 years I have found something really creepy: youtube [dot] com/watch?v=OtSE8iYOR6k
(replace [dot] with . as I am new here and couldn't post links for the first 5 posts)
This is an old showcase video of Admark and guess what you can see at minute 2:07? That's right, the same exact copies that Sanway is producing nowdays. The internals are IDENTICAL to the four-channel version (FQ10000?), the frontal plate has the exact same amount of LEDs and inscriptions as Sanway's, other copies from other brands have different labelling and LED layout, the back of the amplifier is IDENTICAL in every aspect be it labelling nor connectors and such.
The video was uploaded in 2010 and the specs state that these amps were class H so is Sanway ripping us off with the TD class thing and all the other stuff aswell?
Dubcore is offline  
post #4967 of 5026 Old 03-28-2015, 01:21 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 5,449
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 783 Post(s)
Liked: 815
The 220v amp is rated at 16a.

The 120v is rated at 30a.

These amps use a regulated switch mode power supplies, they call it class TD, or a tracking class D since the rail voltage varies and tracks the audio signal. They couple this with an AB output stage, so technically it's a class H Amp.

http://support.labgruppen.com/entrie...TD-technology-
notnyt is online now  
post #4968 of 5026 Old 03-28-2015, 09:26 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
The 220v amp is rated at 16a.

The 120v is rated at 30a.

These amps use a regulated switch mode power supplies, they call it class TD, or a tracking class D since the rail voltage varies and tracks the audio signal. They couple this with an AB output stage, so technically it's a class H Amp.
Thanks for replying.

You made a good point, didn't see it there, although I start to wonder how close to the operation of these copies are. I mean... They made these 5 years ago for a GOOD brand, I don't see that much point in turning them into LG copies.

One last question though, isn't 220V @ 16A about 3500W? Is that really the most current the FP14000 is gonna draw?
Dubcore is offline  
post #4969 of 5026 Old 03-28-2015, 10:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 4,269
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 791 Post(s)
Liked: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronny31 View Post
Any reported hissing from the FP/FB10k clone from Sanway? These horns are 112db 1w/m in a 90x40 horn (and 100w rms so 130db theoretical continuous db).
There is hiss, but I can't hear it beyond 2ft above the stock fans at 10ft.
If you modded the fans for low noise or move the amp out of the room, then you'd hear the hiss, but only when music isn't playing.

I like having amps with output LED indicators, I refuse to run a system without them. Which means either: pro-audio, or Emotiva/McIntosh (and maybe a few others that I don't know about).

Nothing wrong with Emotiva, it's just that they take up 2 or 4 times the rack space and are usually heavier.

The clones have limiters and adjustable sensitivity and gain, (HiFi audio doesn't), it basically has everything you need (except QC and good warranty LOL!)
BassThatHz is offline  
post #4970 of 5026 Old 03-28-2015, 10:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 4,269
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 791 Post(s)
Liked: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubcore View Post
1) The power cord has a Schuko connector which, as far as I know, should be able to hold up to 16A. However, the FP 14000 should definitely pull more than that, say 30A+ so am I missing something or they have built an amplifier with a connector not capable to hold up its current draw?
If you look at the thickness of the fuse wire, you'll see that it is much weaker than the socket/power cable. So I'm sure that the fuse will blow first.

If it were an issue a lot more people would be complaining about their power cable and sockets melting, which clearly is not the case. (I don't know of any.)

One of our members clipped their clone to death, and it tripped a 40amp 240V breaker.
The socket and power cable were fine, but the fuse totally exploded to the point of making the board unusable.
I think that's because their clone was massively defective. Very few have encountered a clone death of that extent... if at all.
(The replacement boards are cheap to replace if so.)

If you wanted high QC and craftsmanship, you'd buy a powersoft K10 or K20. Their products are fully tested in all aspects before leaving the factory floor.

Last edited by BassThatHz; 03-28-2015 at 10:40 AM.
BassThatHz is offline  
post #4971 of 5026 Old 03-28-2015, 10:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 4,269
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 791 Post(s)
Liked: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubcore View Post
isn't 220V @ 16A about 3500W? Is that really the most current the FP14000 is gonna draw?
The amplifiers store power in the form of capacitors, they use these to lessen the load on the breaker for burst power.
Additionally, breakers can handle 2-10 times their rated RMS power between Start Time and Trip Time (about 1 to 60 seconds, depending on how much pedal-to-the-metal you give it.)
Which is 7kW to 35kW (in-theory...)


The EP amps are well known, proven/used and benched tested units->

EP4000 1 side driven into heavy clipping:



FP14k clone 1 side driven into heavy clipping:



and that is only 50% power, powering an inefficient sealed woofer: Now bridge it!

Both were on a dedicated 30amp/120v breaker.

Just in case you don't believe me: video or it never happened!

Any questions?

Last edited by BassThatHz; 03-28-2015 at 10:59 AM.
BassThatHz is offline  
post #4972 of 5026 Old 03-28-2015, 12:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
blah450's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,040
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 130
Bass...great vids. It happened! Thx.
blah450 is offline  
post #4973 of 5026 Old 03-28-2015, 12:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
blah450's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,040
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 130
In summary, and outside of reliability/better QC/warranty and a higher credit card bill, what should someone expect performance-wise from a K10 versus a clone 14000 when used for sub duty?
blah450 is offline  
post #4974 of 5026 Old 03-28-2015, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 5,449
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 783 Post(s)
Liked: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubcore View Post
Thanks for replying.

You made a good point, didn't see it there, although I start to wonder how close to the operation of these copies are. I mean... They made these 5 years ago for a GOOD brand, I don't see that much point in turning them into LG copies.

One last question though, isn't 220V @ 16A about 3500W? Is that really the most current the FP14000 is gonna draw?
No, it's not the most current it will draw. That's the RMS current it's meant to be able to sustain up to for a length of time. Fuses and breakers don't trip the instant you pull more than X amount of amps. There are profiles that illustrate their behavior. These are called time-current curves. Basically, if you draw 10x the rated power it will pop or trip much quicker than if you were to pull 2x it's rated power, which can be sustained for upwards of 30 seconds depending on the fuse or breaker.

Here's an example of this. With 2X the rated current, this breaker will trip somewhere between 22 and 120 seconds depending on temperature and other factors.

notnyt is online now  
post #4975 of 5026 Old 03-28-2015, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 5,449
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 783 Post(s)
Liked: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by blah450 View Post
In summary, and outside of reliability/better QC/warranty and a higher credit card bill, what should someone expect performance-wise from a K10 versus a clone 14000 when used for sub duty?
Langston Holland tested these. I archived it here.
notnyt is online now  
post #4976 of 5026 Old 03-28-2015, 03:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
blah450's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,040
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
Langston Holland tested these. I archived it here.
Going there now. Gracias!
blah450 is offline  
post #4977 of 5026 Old 03-28-2015, 07:19 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
There is hiss, but I can't hear it beyond 2ft above the stock fans at 10ft.
If you modded the fans for low noise or move the amp out of the room, then you'd hear the hiss, but only when music isn't playing.
Thanks for info. Seems I have found my amp of choice. I'll be having the amp rack in the next room.
ronny31 is offline  
post #4978 of 5026 Old 03-28-2015, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 5,449
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 783 Post(s)
Liked: 815
these are good for sub duty, but there are much better choices for mains.
notnyt is online now  
post #4979 of 5026 Old 03-28-2015, 07:53 PM
Advanced Member
 
kingpin111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan CANADA
Posts: 722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 166 Post(s)
Liked: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
these are good for sub duty, but there are much better choices for mains.
like....

Quote:
MKtheater -I just saw 300 tonight, great movie. I literally wanted to spear people after the show
My speaker build PROJECT OVERKILL WWMTMSS
Photobucket link to build photos
Photobucket link to Project Overkill cut down
kingpin111 is offline  
post #4980 of 5026 Old 03-28-2015, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 5,449
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 783 Post(s)
Liked: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpin111 View Post
like....
In the same price range? Emotiva comes to mind first.
notnyt is online now  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Tags
Lab Gruppen Fp 14000 , Sanway Fp 10000q
Gear in this thread - 10000q by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off