Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers - Page 179 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5341 of 5431 Old 01-13-2016, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by cubalis2

Even though we could possibly boost the low end back up through eq, and our systems could handle it, there is no one here who would do it (KW maybe being an exception, RIP)..

Don't let Beast or Popalock see this.

Forgive me guys I'm reading through this whole thread still, just hit 100. In talking about creating bass on tracks where there isn't much lfe. Didn't Audiocontrol create the Epicenter to do just that?
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post #5342 of 5431 Old 01-13-2016, 01:49 PM
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I used to be a dealer for Audio Control. Still have a couple custom pieces I got from them. One is an Epicenter. I only knew them to offer it for car audio use. Don't think it was built into any of their home audio gear. Maybe that has changed.
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post #5343 of 5431 Old 01-13-2016, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
I used to be a dealer for Audio Control. Still have a couple custom pieces I got from them. One is an Epicenter. I only knew them to offer it for car audio use. Don't think it was built into any of their home audio gear. Maybe that has changed.

The home version is called the Phase Coupled Activator.


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post #5344 of 5431 Old 01-13-2016, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbclamper View Post
can someone post a a picture of where to set the dipswitches for 2 lms ultras. thanx in advance
100 volts (into each) is pretty safe for the LMS-18's.

Anything above that is "at your own risk", especially when booming stuff below 40hz.

Personally I set mine all the way up (195V), but I'm crazy so...

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post #5345 of 5431 Old 01-14-2016, 07:25 AM
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For the guys that are using 30 amp dedicated... Are you using a 30 amp breaker at the panel and a 20 amp receptacle in the wall or a 30 amp with an adapter of some sort? Or did you cut the plug off the amp and put on a 30 amp?
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post #5346 of 5431 Old 01-15-2016, 03:17 PM
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I'm ready for some beer, bass, and Jager. With the VPL lights blinking like this, I'm about where I was, maybe a hair louder than it was. I guess until I add my others speakers in, what I gained was the low end, not really noticeable in most music. Since these lights are blinking that is as far as I can safely push the amp? The speakers are handling it fine.


I don't know how to embed the video, sorry. Sorry for the noise its my wall vibrating.

OK, I take it back it is definitely louder, after listening to more tracks.

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post #5347 of 5431 Old 01-15-2016, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evoryder View Post
For the guys that are using 30 amp dedicated... Are you using a 30 amp breaker at the panel and a 20 amp receptacle in the wall or a 30 amp with an adapter of some sort? Or did you cut the plug off the amp and put on a 30 amp?
You don't cut the cable, you can unscrew it and put a new one on.
A 30a socket would be to code. Few do it though.
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post #5348 of 5431 Old 01-15-2016, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by evoryder View Post
Since these lights are blinking that is as far as I can safely push the amp?
If it's at 195V dips and hardclip, yep that's as far as it goes.

That said, that is only 1 channel.
With 2 channels it will be 6db louder.
and with both amps going full tilt, another 6db louder than that.

After that point, to get another 6db would require double the number of amplifiers and subs. (Loudness costs money...)
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post #5349 of 5431 Old 01-15-2016, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
If it's at 195V dips and hardclip, yep that's as far as it goes.

That said, that is only 1 channel.
With 2 channels it will be 6db louder.
and with both amps going full tilt, another 6db louder than that.

After that point, to get another 6db would require double the number of amplifiers and subs. (Loudness costs money...)
Yes I have ten more in the garage not being used. I spent the money, just not sure how to implement it. I was going to do 4 dual opposed in 16 cubes but then I saw not's conversion to ported and now I don't know. I really like the way the IB sounds, don't know how a box whether sealed or ported will compare.

I will say this 4 hours later and the amp has cutout 3 times before my speakers give up, which doesn't make sense the way everyone talks on this thread... I'm expecting my speakers to blow way before the amp gives up, but that isn't the case. Could be cause I'm on a 20 amp circuit still, but the breaker hasn't tripped yet.
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post #5350 of 5431 Old 01-15-2016, 08:55 PM
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Let me think about this, before I had 6 speakers on 3 channels of 3 xls 2500v and now I have 6 speakers on one channel of the clone and its immensely improved. Obviously I just need to add the extra speakers, I'm not trying to slam this amp, because it definitely kicks the $#^*^ out of what I had before... But my thoughts now are I should try this amp bridged to the 6 in IB, If that's the case I will need a few more amps once I put them in a box.
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post #5351 of 5431 Old 01-15-2016, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evoryder View Post
Yes I have ten more in the garage not being used. I spent the money, just not sure how to implement it. I was going to do 4 dual opposed in 16 cubes but then I saw not's conversion to ported and now I don't know. I really like the way the IB sounds, don't know how a box whether sealed or ported will compare.

I will say this 4 hours later and the amp has cutout 3 times before my speakers give up, which doesn't make sense the way everyone talks on this thread... I'm expecting my speakers to blow way before the amp gives up, but that isn't the case. Could be cause I'm on a 20 amp circuit still, but the breaker hasn't tripped yet.

Could definitely be b/c you're on a 20-amp circuit. Amp is straining to pull more current b/c it has more to give, but the mains won't support it. Or (unlikely) it's overheating. You haven't done any fan mods and this isn't the middle of August, so overheating is unlikely.
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post #5352 of 5431 Old 01-16-2016, 07:55 AM
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The 20 amp breaker is not a factor unless you are tripping it. If you are not tripping it switching to a 30 amp will get you nothing.

However it is possible that the gauge of the wire (and length of run) could be leading to voltage droop. Not as common with a 20 amp circuit which would be 12 gauge wire minimum.

I ran my clone amp off a 20 amp breaker (10 gauge wire) shared with everything else driving a 6 ohm bridged load running six SI 18s. I could never max out the amp to where it would trip the breaker.

Make sure you optimize your gains between all your equipment.

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post #5353 of 5431 Old 01-16-2016, 08:17 AM
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Next cool weekend Ill be running a couple of 30 amp dedicated runs. If I had known I was getting into these amps, I would have done it when I ran my atmos speakers last month.
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post #5354 of 5431 Old 01-16-2016, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evoryder View Post
I will say this 4 hours later and the amp has cutout 3 times before my speakers give up, which doesn't make sense the way everyone talks on this thread... I'm expecting my speakers to blow way before the amp gives up, but that isn't the case.
Well if it makes you feel any better, data-bass put 20kW into a single subwoofer when testing it
Which made the loudest SPL ever recorded on the site thus far: 141.2db @ 80hz
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=s...d=119&mset=131

So it's definitely possible for multiple subwoofers to absorb a lot of power.

If you don't want to be underpowered I would not recommend powering more than 2 premium 18's with a FP14k.

A 20a breaker is 1.2kW x2 (at 100% efficiency, which is impossible.)
More like: 0.8kW x2 long term

A 30a breaker is 1.8kW x2 (at 100% efficiency, which is impossible.)
More like: 1.2kW x2 long term

Short-Term can be multiples of that, but usually only for a few seconds.
The K10 puts out about 12kW for <1 second, the iTech 8k puts out 10kW for <1 second, the Gruppen 14k puts out 10kW for <1 second.

The clone is no different (and probably worse made.)

No idea what a K20 outputs, but they all drop down to <3kW after ~5 seconds, and 1-2kW after 30 seconds (and then they usually maintain that but with max fan RPM until it overheats or the breaker pops.)
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post #5355 of 5431 Old 01-16-2016, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by evoryder View Post
Next cool weekend Ill be running a couple of 30 amp dedicated runs. If I had known I was getting into these amps, I would have done it when I ran my atmos speakers last month.
If you want more power than a FP14k, buy 8 Sanway CA-30's, the 240V version, and put them on a 400amp breaker.
That is +800lbs of amplification by the way.

Or alternatively... you could buy 8 FP14k's and bridge them, that would work too. Only a fraction of the weight (but it would cost you more $$$ than the CA-30, and probably wouldn't be as powerful.)
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post #5356 of 5431 Old 01-16-2016, 02:20 PM
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Really I just need to get off my butt and build enclosures for the rest of my subs. That should solve my "problem", and from that point I can add more amps if needed. Trying to ring every last bit out of the 6 I'm using now is pretty dumb when I have more sitting in the garage collecting dust. Thanks for the information though. I will keep tat in mind.
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post #5357 of 5431 Old 01-17-2016, 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
The home version is called the Phase Coupled Activator.

I had both. The epicenter in my car and a phase coupled activator for my house. The epicenter was great fun and added some nice thump to rock music like ACDC back in black. Wish I hadn't got rid of the phase coupled activator though. I really didn't use it do it's potential. I now have a moded behringer unit waiting to go in the rack for buttkicker duty.
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post #5358 of 5431 Old 01-20-2016, 04:59 AM
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I am finally done reading through this thread, I have read every single post on every single page!!! Also picked up the wire, breakers and outlets I need for two 30 amp runs. I'm hoping to get that completed on Saturday, and then I can start figuring out enclosures. You can see how over the years the product seems to have improved and less people got bad units, which is cool.

There is alot of information in here, and I probably should have read the whole thing before I ordered. You can see how over the years the product seems to have improved and less people got bad units, which is cool. I didn't know they had enhanced versions with more caps, but it doesn't look like those are Sanways to me, also that 20 K looks really cool too.
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post #5359 of 5431 Old 01-23-2016, 03:27 PM
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30 amp runs are complete, testing will follow

30 Amp Dedicated Breaker Install Pics
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post #5360 of 5431 Old 02-04-2016, 04:55 PM
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The 2015 version is 2-ohm stable, all the way to clipping (4-ohms bridged at least). It was only pulling 18a RMS from my circuit breaker (lightly clipping, not heavy clipping.)

The amp board is V5, the power board is V7, the fuse board is V4, and the output caps are V3.

3300uf x 10
2200uf x 4
300uf x 2

The rails measured 440v RMS in bridge-mode.


Do not touch the big aluminium heat sink, it has 26v RMS on it (at least mine does.)

It produces over 110v RMS, which is just over 3kW RMS in that mode for well over 5 seconds.
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post #5361 of 5431 Old 02-04-2016, 06:57 PM
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Hi Fellas,

I've just recently had a problem (big problem?) with my FP14000. When I power the unit on with or without input outputs being used the amp clicks itself on and off repeatedly. I've got a video file of it in action with the fault but not sure of where to upload the file for viewing?
I did notice on the amp that two or three of the 3300uf caps (x10) appeared swollen so am wondering if this would be the cause or attribute to the fault? I've tried numerous dip switch settings but the amp still powers on and off repeatedly...
I purchased the amp second hand and it has always been used in 4Ohm stereo and the 195V clip setting.
I have contacted a local amp repairer via email with pictures and the video so am just waiting for him to get back to me with whether or not he will take a look at it but just thought I'd throw it out there whether others have had this problem or not and if it had been repairable!

Cheers,
Brett

P.S. I will add that my amp is 240v and is run on a dedicated 15amp circuit in my house.
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post #5362 of 5431 Old 02-04-2016, 07:16 PM
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I've uploaded the video to my Google+ page for those that would like to view the fault-

https://plus.google.com/108328493320...ts/AzPNUe83puc

Cheers,
Brett
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post #5363 of 5431 Old 02-04-2016, 07:45 PM
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Email Johnson. He will give you troubleshooting steps to identify which components have failed.
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post #5364 of 5431 Old 02-04-2016, 09:59 PM
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Looks like you have an older 2010 model.

The good news is that the amplifiers look very easy to repair, any competent repair guy should be able to fix most of the components (if not all.)

Sanway can provide components if he can't source them for cheaper.

It does look like your capacitors have packed it in, they shouldn't have bulges or fluid coming out like that.
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post #5365 of 5431 Old 02-05-2016, 02:34 PM
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Thanks fellas. I'll let you all know the outcome once it's all done.
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post #5366 of 5431 Old 03-03-2016, 09:42 AM
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Anyone have experience with other amps from Sanway?

CA18/30,F5500?
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post #5367 of 5431 Old 03-03-2016, 10:40 AM
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Anyone have experience with other amps from Sanway?
CA18/30,F5500?
No but the CA-30 appears to have 26 transistors per channel, each rated for 125-200watts, and flipping huge toroid so it's gotta make more power than just about any other Class-H amp I've ever seen.

The only thing that scares me is their picture has 80V caps.
Which would limit it to 6.4kW bridged @ 4ohm, or 1.6kWx2 @ 4-ohm.
Still more power than a FP14k in terms of RMS (although it probably sucks back about 20% more power from the wall, so at least a 30a breaker should be used, maybe even a 50a...)

If they were 200V caps like the FP14k I'd sleep better at night. Sanway should be questioned on this and see what they say the reason is!

If they were running the caps in series at 160V that might make sense, and then it would make it's rated power.
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post #5368 of 5431 Old 03-03-2016, 10:48 AM
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BTH, you have one? Or only the FP?
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post #5369 of 5431 Old 03-03-2016, 12:51 PM
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CA-30 weighs 104 lbs. so shipping will be quite expensive.
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post #5370 of 5431 Old 03-03-2016, 01:39 PM
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I know, depends what it is.
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