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Old 06-17-2017, 11:48 AM
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12ga should be fine unless you want to make a run all the way across your house
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Old 06-18-2017, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

The only reason why China is able to clone anything is because
we give them the blueprints and say to them "build this for a dollar a day";
and then we wonder why they clone it on the blackmarket... (LOL What did you expect was gonna happen? )

Question: Who's fault is that?
Answer: The person giving them the blueprints!

Design and build here, in-house. Problem solved!

Actually... it is FAR from problem-solved. If you built it here nobody would buy the $12000 Powersoft X8 because it would cost too much... Unless your name happens to be Adele or Katy Perry or whatever (and they only rent them for an hour here and there ).
As usual you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Most SMPS is garbage, and when good units do show up they are they are half the price of a car. There was the powerlight series fowl up , the crown itech foul up. and many many more, even including the introduction of behringer.

That being said if I was doing a lot of pro audio work and travel, regardless, even i would not be stupid enough to drag 20 cv 5000k around. I would just have to pick the best smps i could, and made sure i had spares. The biggest benefit of smps is weight, and that is why despite the huge constant blunders, Smps still persists in pro audio


Big Iron has always served me well , and in my home, I do not need any smps amps nor amps capable of 20000k

Would not surprise me if nynot sent one of his for cloning................... LOL, so even what you say is no protection. They take the amp apart and like the american spy plane that went down, they will send it back in a million pieces and say thanks for the spy plane plans.

If one is going to analyze the benefit of more power, one needs to separate power from displacement and power from venting. One could take two Orion hcca 15 5000 watt models and do a test of power in sealed box condition.
Soon as you increase displacement you are no longer comparing power alone anymore, and as soon as you change to vented you are no longer just comparing power and displacement. At this point i can permanently damage anyones ears with bass, just it will not be enjoyable to listen to at that level. Anyway all these factors come to play and fair comparison of power, cannot include extra drivers and porting. Many forget it just is not that simple

I could also take out a few ear drums with my 4 pioneer pro tsb 400 pro audio bullet tweeters. 105 db sensitivity
and 500 watts max each. They never get anywhere near that, but they are a nice touch to go with low, bass. I enjoy augmenting the extreme highs just a touch. They are higher than my two pair klipsh reference 5

A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are least under rated if at all.

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Old 06-18-2017, 07:13 PM
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Bragging about supporting any company that rips off another is disgusting; hopefully karma comes to roost.

This simply cannot be justified, it is the same selfishness about "me" getting a deal regardless of the impacts that kills 1st world manufacturing....the same mentality of shopping at Walmart and then winning about where all the good paying manufacturing jobs have gone....

Display - Panasonic PT-AE8000 & Grandview 135" 16x9 curved screen
Processing/power - Yamaha CX-A5100 & MX-5000
Player - Oppo 203
Speakers - Polk RTIA9 x 6, RTIA25 x 4, CSIA6
Subs - Velodyne Optimum 12 x 2
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:03 PM
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I don't think anyone here has any right to a holier than thou attitude if you have a cell phone or any other similar product in your possession. We know very well that the people that make those things are literally dying to get a day off work. Don't tell me you don't know about suicide nets and bought a phone anyway. Compared to that I don't think a few bucks out of the pocket of a major corporation is even morally wrong. Besides, what did LG actually invent anyway? They borrowed the tech, ideas and circuits from those that came before. Don't whine about 1st world problems - we have it much better than our slaves in disadvantaged countries that we pay pennies a day so we can have all our modern luxuries. The entire world economy and the way we happily take advantage of the disadvantaged is disgusting, copying a simple collection of circuits doesn't even register on the morality meter in comparison. Don't forget that WE happily created the conditions for this to happen in the first place. And when China demands $1 more per unit we'll happily move on the next disadvantaged country to save our few pennies. It's not anyone's fault but our own that we exported our jobs and this is what happens.
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by johnplayerson View Post
The biggest benefit of smps is weight, and that is why despite the huge constant blunders, Smps still persists in pro audio

... Maybe you've heard of this thing called efficiency... maybe not... I'm leaning towards not...
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by mlah384 View Post
What size speakon cable are y'all using with the clone 14k, speakerpower 12k, k10/k20, etc? And where do you get them? PE seems to max out at 12ga
My secret is I use power wire. 600v 6/10. Mine are used a little differently from most here however. But it makes a difference..
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by mlah384 View Post
What size speakon cable are y'all using with the clone 14k, speakerpower 12k, k10/k20, etc? And where do you get them? PE seems to max out at 12ga
I'm using "Ultra-Flexible Neoprene Rubber Power Cable 300V AC (SJOOW), 12 Gauge, 4 Wires, Black" that I bought from McMaster-Carr to connect my slave subwoofer cabinet to the SP1-4000 in the master. It's .48" in diameter. The 600V SOOW power cable is too fat to put into a Speakon at .65" diameter. The Speakerpower SP1's Speakon connector parallels 1+/1- and 2+/2- and I did the same inside my slave cabinet bringing them back together so I'm effectively using two 12ga runs in parallel, which is effectively like 9ga wire.
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Old 06-20-2017, 12:49 PM
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... Maybe you've heard of this thing called efficiency... maybe not... I'm leaning towards not...
As usual you make me laugh, with your vague statements. of amplifier efficiency, as if that is going to change actual output for most people.

Power in and of itself, even if we assumed we could hear everything produced by audio, ie, spl equals loudness, We still need an incredible 4 times power to double spl, and when you are already at 2000 watts , this means 6000 more watts to accomplish 6db, and for this to be valid one must also remove displacement from the issue, and use all the power in a single driver. If efficiency is wasting 6000 watts of power like this, i would hate to see inefficiency. Then we have the waste of time of constant amplifier failure of which, zero power equals zero output. Like my friend Randy Slone has always said, the industry would be better off concentrating on speaker efficiency. This is where the real output is. 10db of efficiency alone puts you up in Loudness one whole jump. This moves us into the loudness of 100000 watts, with zero extra amplifier power.

LIke i simply stated before, extra driver gets you 3db, extra amp on top gets you 6. So you can accomplish way more simply by increasing displacement, and using an extra amp that only need be 1000 to 2000 watts for bass.

IF power ever had any real value, we would all not be sitting here with so many drivers.

Now i realize people on the forum such as you, think and talk like you are the electricity itself that is passing
from the amplifier to the driver, but you really need to take a step back and look at yourself, if your really think your are godlike, and superior to me, because you can purchase an amplifier.

With vague statements like, I have put more power and thrust into a sub than any of you........ one could think you were on craiglist in the personal section, and by accident posted on this forum.

A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are least under rated if at all.

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Old 06-20-2017, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by johnplayerson View Post
As usual you make me laugh, with your vague statements. of amplifier efficiency, as if that is going to change actual output for most people.

Power in and of itself, even if we assumed we could hear everything produced by audio, ie, spl equals loudness, We still need an incredible 4 times power to double spl, and when you are already at 2000 watts , this means 6000 more watts to accomplish 6db, and for this to be valid one must also remove displacement from the issue, and use all the power in a single driver. If efficiency is wasting 6000 watts of power like this, i would hate to see inefficiency. Then we have the waste of time of constant amplifier failure of which, zero power equals zero output. Like my friend Randy Slone has always said, the industry would be better off concentrating on speaker efficiency. This is where the real output is. 10db of efficiency alone puts you up in Loudness one whole jump.

LIke i simply stated before, extra driver gets you 3db, extra amp on top gets you 6. So you can accomplish way more simply by increasing displacement, and using an extra amp that only need be 1000 to 2000 watts for bass.

IF power ever had any real value, we would all not be sitting here with so many drivers.
You completely miss the point, and disregard things anyone with common sense takes for granted while rambling about nonsense. You are not forced to use all of the power in a single driver as you state. That's just absurd.

If you can power 4 drivers off a single amp better than you can power 4 drivers off 4 individual amps, it makes sense to do so.

Now to put this in an example you likely will still fail to grasp.

Running an SP2-12000 and powering 4 LMS-U 5400s off that single amp will have at least the following benefits compared to running 4 of the CV5000s.

1) more power output
2) increased efficiency (this has many benefits, less load on power source, less voltage drop, etc)
3) less ambient noise
4) less heat
5) less wasted space
6) 22 lbs vs 333 lbs
7) less points of failure
8) less idle power draw

Regarding efficiency, if you only have a 20A circuit for example, and are running an amp like the CV which is around 55-60% efficient, for every amp you pull from the source, almost half of that is being given off as heat. You use 20A, 8-9A of that is going to heat. If you're limited by your power source, you just lost 3db of potential output as heat. Compare to the SP amps, which I've tested at 93% efficiency. You use 20A, you're only converting 1.5A to heat. FP14000 will be 4A wasted as heat, which is still twice as good as the CV.

I can't really make this any more basic for you. This is not my limitation in explanation, but yours in understanding.
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
You completely miss the point, and disregard things anyone with common sense takes for granted while rambling about nonsense. You are not forced to use all of the power in a single driver as you state. That's just absurd.

If you can power 4 drivers off a single amp better than you can power 4 drivers off 4 individual amps, it makes sense to do so.

Now to put this in an example you likely will still fail to grasp.

Running an SP2-12000 and powering 4 LMS-U 5400s off that single amp will have at least the following benefits compared to running 4 of the CV5000s.

1) more power output
2) increased efficiency (this has many benefits, less load on power source, less voltage drop, etc)
3) less ambient noise
4) less heat
5) less wasted space
6) 22 lbs vs 333 lbs
7) less points of failure
8) less idle power draw

Regarding efficiency, if you only have a 20A circuit for example, and are running an amp like the CV which is around 55-60% efficient, for every amp you pull from the source, almost half of that is being given off as heat. You use 20A, 8-9A of that is going to heat. If you're limited by your power source, you just lost 3db of potential output as heat. Compare to the SP amps, which I've tested at 93% efficiency. You use 20A, you're only converting 1.5A to heat. FP14000 will be 4A wasted as heat, which is still twice as good as the CV.

I can't really make this any more basic for you. This is not my limitation in explanation, but yours in understanding.
Actually all the failures are yours, where you simply only want to look at your side of the equation with your opinions and views, and say , everything is better your way.

Firstly speaking of what amplifier one owns means nothing, as you change your amplifiers all the time, for whatever
reason, and as I said in another 10 years you will probably change a few more times before I do. The amp will die or you will sell before that happens.

Old school value................ Im still using 3 Yamaha mx 1000 all my pairs of main speakers, whichever i choose to operate at any point in time. This will be 30 years in use in another five years lol. Now they may be only 260 watts per channel, but they power any speaker I have ever owned to the max no problem, and usually i need not use more than 35 watts. Because I have always owned amps with digital output meters, I have always understood what power level i was using at any point in time and what DB level that corresponded to. Unfortunately most simply turn the dial, and thing they are using more power than they really are........... Now when you compare this to smps which would be lucky if they all averaged 7 years. This is a savings of 4 amplifier replacements.

Now going to subs. I have never ever needed to 2 ohm load and never will. Simply never did require the power. Maybe with only a couple subs in sealed condition i managed to use full power on two bridged cv 2800. Now that they are ported..... A move you made with all your subs despite all your raves of , I GOT POWER. Because i bridge load, as i have posted before the result is like explained at leonard audio..... The most efficient way to use an amplifier is in 8 ohm bridge mode. For a small sacrifice in watts produced, you get a XXXX load of power, with only half the voltage on the rails. The amplifiers never break out a sweat this way.

I will be here on AVS with all my amplifiers in 20 more years they will be 30 years, and they will all be working. Not to mention they will probably be worth more in scrap metal by then than i paid. 800.00 an amplifier is dirt cheap.

With 20 subs now and over 1500 lbs of amplifiers lol. I can tell you that in my room, because of the amount of displacement i am using. I need not go anywhere near full power on any amplifier. Something else that comes into play when deriving longevity. I have simply overdone it. I need a bigger room lol.

All the time you brag about your smps, of which 96 percent are bad, just like the other guy posted........ when ditching out 6 smps amplifiers in one sentence. I do use 6 lines to power my amps and as much as i would like them all to be 20 amp. I have zero worries about breaker blowing. Two ohm loaders can accomplish that, but as i explained many times I will not have 1db extra output switching from 8 ohm bridge loading to 4 ohm, which is really 2 ohm loading.

Obviously everything I have done, i have not done by following some other persons way of thinking, and we need not forget that Insane people that go this far in audio, just to do some bass in the home, are definitely one in a few hundred thousand at least.

My audio has always been good...... I sold all my internet stock two months before the nasdaq crash of 2002. I purchased 10 homes in depressed real estate markets with that, that are now with 10 times what I paid. As far as I am concerned I am doing things right, and if lots did what i did for their home audio, they would save a fortune, is not be stuck with dead clones , and dead smps and might have some extra cash to put in the nasdaq at the right time.

A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are least under rated if at all.

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Old 06-20-2017, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnplayerson View Post
As usual you make me laugh, with your vague statements. of amplifier efficiency, as if that is going to change actual output for most people.

Power in and of itself, even if we assumed we could hear everything produced by audio, ie, spl equals loudness, We still need an incredible 4 times power to double spl ...
Really? REALLY!?!

I just got done explaining this to you. I'll put it in bold caps, maybe you'll read it this time.

THE FM CHART CLEARLY SHOWS THAT IT DOES NOT TAKE 4 TIMES MORE POWER TO DOUBLE PERCEIVED LOUDNESS AT SUBWOOFER FREQUENCIES, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU GET UP TO AROUND 100 DB.

Our perception of loudness, especially at subwoofer frequencies, is only loosely tied to measured spl or perhaps better stated it is not even close to a linear relationship.

YOU CAN GET GREATER THAN 6 DB PERCEIVED LOUDNESS FROM LESS THAN 6 DB INCREASE IN POWER AT SUBWOOFER FREQUENCIES.

If you don't understand what that means, you can achieve a doubling of perceived loudness with LESS than a doubling of power.

This 10 db = perceived doubling of loudness crap that you keep spewing is ONLY applicable in the midrange frequencies.

Let's look at this again.



The blue lines are the FM curves, the red lines are the RD curves that ISO 226 is based on.

According to the RD curves (red), 2 db at 1 kz is equally as loud as 72 db at 20 hz.
BUT 100 db at 1 kz is equally as loud as 128 db at 20 hz.
That's a difference of 98 db at 1 khz but only 56 db at 20 hz.
The 10 db per doubling of perceived loudness IS applicable to 1 khz but NOT at 20 hz.

According the the FM curves the difference is WAY more obvious.
0 db at 1 khz is equal to 62 db at 32 hz.
BUT 100 db at 1 khz is equal to 101 db at 32 hz.
That's a difference of 100 db at 1 khz but only 39 db at 32 hz.
Again, the 10 db per doubling of perceived loudness IS applicable to 1 khz but NOT at 32 hz.

PERCEIVED LOUDNESS AT SUBWOOFER FREQUENCIES RAMPS UP A LOT FASTER (WITH LESS POWER INPUT) THAN AT MIDRANGE FREQUENCIES.

This has been explained to you WITH PICTURES a bunch of times already. If you still don't understand it it's either willful negligence or a lack of ability to understand. Either way, this is your issue, not a problem with the people explaining it to you. But rest assured, you are very incorrect.

At this point I'd like to thank you for drifting back on topic, but you are still as incorrect as you were when you started.

Your assertion that we "can't hear everything produced by audio" is ridiculous. The fact that our ears do not perceive loudness in a linear fashion is well known. And things are much different in the bass than at mid frequencies. You are the only one that doesn't seem to know about this.

Regardless, if the application calls for a specific amount of power, that's how much power you should provide. Let me remind you, you are using a fairly big amp yourself. Arguing that there's no point in ever having more power than you have is ludicrous. You simply are not making any sense.
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by diy speaker guy View Post
Really? REALLY!?!

I just got done explaining this to you. I'll put it in bold caps, maybe you'll read it this time.

THE FM CHART CLEARLY SHOWS THAT IT DOES NOT TAKE 4 TIMES MORE POWER TO DOUBLE PERCEIVED LOUDNESS AT SUBWOOFER FREQUENCIES, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU GET UP TO AROUND 100 DB.

Our perception of loudness, especially at subwoofer frequencies, is only loosely tied to measured spl.

YOU CAN GET GREATER THAN 6 DB PERCEIVED LOUDNESS FROM LESS THAN 6 DB INCREASE IN POWER AT SUBWOOFER FREQUENCIES.

If you don't understand what that means, you can achieve a doubling of perceived loudness with LESS than a doubling of power.

This 10 db = perceived doubling of loudness crap that you keep spewing is ONLY applicable in the midrange frequencies.

Let's look at this again.



The blue lines are the FM curves, the red lines are the RD curves that ISO 226 is based on.

According to the RD curves (red), 2 db at 1 kz is equally as loud as 72 db at 20 hz.
BUT 100 db at 1 kz is equally as loud as 128 db at 20 hz.
That's a difference of 98 db at 1 khz but only 56 db at 20 hz.
The 10 db per doubling of perceived loudness IS applicable to 1 khz but NOT at 20 hz.

According the the FM curves the difference is WAY more obvious.
0 db at 1 khz is equal to 62 db at 32 hz.
BUT 100 db at 1 khz is equal to 101 db at 32 hz.
That's a difference of 100 db at 1 khz but only 39 db at 32 hz.
Again, the 10 db per doubling of perceived loudness IS applicable to 1 khz but NOT at 32 hz.

PERCEIVED LOUDNESS AT SUBWOOFER FREQUENCIES RAMPS UP A LOT FASTER (WITH LESS POWER INPUT) THAN AT MIDRANGE FREQUENCIES.

This has been explained to you WITH PICTURES a bunch of times already. If you still don't understand it it's either willful negligence or a lack of ability to understand. Either way, this is your issue, not a problem with the people explaining it to you. But rest assured, you are very incorrect.

At this point I'd like to thank you for drifting back on topic, but you are still as incorrect as you were when you started.

Your assertion that we "can't hear everything produced by audio" is ridiculous. The fact that our ears do not perceive loudness in a linear fashion is well known. And things are much different in the bass than at mid frequencies. You are the only one that doesn't seem to know about this.

Regardless, if the application calls for a specific amount of power, that's how much power you should provide. Let me remind you, you are using a fairly big amp yourself. Arguing that there's no point in ever having more power than you have is ludicrous. You simply are not making any sense.
I know............... nynot really does need all the help he can get.............................. I am sorry if you think I am doing everything wrong. Even my Broker was telling me it was wrong to sell all my nasdaq stock, and even my dad, thought the properties i was buying where complete garbage. Save money at home people. Old school will always keep you happy at home.

All the subs used in pro audio use stamped steel baskets for a reason also. Weight lol

A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are least under rated if at all.

Last edited by johnplayerson; 06-20-2017 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 06-20-2017, 02:02 PM
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I know............... nynot really does need all the help he can get.............................. I am sorry if you think I am doing everything wrong. Even my Broker was telling me it was wrong to sell all my nasdaq stock, and even my dad, thought the properties i was buying where complete garbage. Save money at home people. Old school will always keep you happy at home.
Yes, I agree, it can be difficult for one person to point out all the errors you are making. Correcting you is not his paid day job but it could take a full work week to do.

Your investments are another dalliance into OT land. Nobody gives a flying turd about your finances or you luck in the stock market. And having success in one area (even if it was just pure luck) does not translate to knowledge in another area. Do you hear me saying I know the alphabet and therefore it's common sense that I know quantum mechanics? They don't relate.

Your basic premise is ok. Tons of power and tons of displacement equals happiness and there are some known failures regarding clone amps. But as soon as you try to get into anything more technical than that simple statement you go completely off the rails into complete nonsense and OT babbling.

Anyway, why don't you comment on the actual information I present instead of just insisting that we are ganging up on you for no reason?

You posted a reply quoting my post 6 minutes after I posted it. There's no way you actually read it. This is the problem. You are not considering or even reading anything that disagrees with you.

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Old 06-20-2017, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by johnplayerson View Post
Actually all the failures are yours, where you simply only want to look at your side of the equation with your opinions and views, and say , everything is better your way.

Firstly speaking of what amplifier one owns means nothing, as you change your amplifiers all the time, for whatever
reason, and as I said in another 10 years you will probably change a few more times before I do. The amp will die or you will sell before that happens.

Old school value................ Im still using 3 Yamaha mx 1000 all my pairs of main speakers, whichever i choose to operate at any point in time. This will be 30 years in use in another five years lol. Now they may be only 260 watts per channel, but they power any speaker I have ever owned to the max no problem, and usually i need not use more than 35 watts. Because I have always owned amps with digital output meters, I have always understood what power level i was using at any point in time and what DB level that corresponded to. Unfortunately most simply turn the dial, and thing they are using more power than they really are........... Now when you compare this to smps which would be lucky if they all averaged 7 years. This is a savings of 4 amplifier replacements.

Now going to subs. I have never ever needed to 2 ohm load and never will. Simply never did require the power. Maybe with only a couple subs in sealed condition i managed to use full power on two bridged cv 2800. Now that they are ported..... A move you made with all your subs despite all your raves of , I GOT POWER. Because i bridge load, as i have posted before the result is like explained at leonard audio..... The most efficient way to use an amplifier is in 8 ohm bridge mode. For a small sacrifice in watts produced, you get a XXXX load of power, with only half the voltage on the rails. The amplifiers never break out a sweat this way.

I will be here on AVS with all my amplifiers in 20 more years they will be 30 years, and they will all be working. Not to mention they will probably be worth more in scrap metal by then than i paid. 800.00 an amplifier is dirt cheap.

With 20 subs now and over 1500 lbs of amplifiers lol. I can tell you that in my room, because of the amount of displacement i am using. I need not go anywhere near full power on any amplifier. Something else that comes into play when deriving longevity. I have simply overdone it. I need a bigger room lol.

All the time you brag about your smps, of which 96 percent are bad, just like the other guy posted........ when ditching out 6 smps amplifiers in one sentence. I do use 6 lines to power my amps and as much as i would like them all to be 20 amp. I have zero worries about breaker blowing. Two ohm loaders can accomplish that, but as i explained many times I will not have 1db extra output switching from 8 ohm bridge loading to 4 ohm, which is really 2 ohm loading.

Obviously everything I have done, i have not done by following some other persons way of thinking, and we need not forget that Insane people that go this far in audio, just to do some bass in the home, are definitely one in a few hundred thousand at least.
Rofl, you'll only be here if you don't get banned like you did on speakerplans. Changing from sealed to ported has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of power an amp is making or how loud the speaker plays in any range but that affected by the port, its irrelevant to this discussion in every way.

Running in bridged mode may improve your crest factor with higher voltage potential, but it will not improve the overall output capabilities of your amplifier. The cost of one of your amps is greater than an FP, and it will take like 4 of them to match it. The cost of 4 of your amps is still greater than the cost of a speakerpower amp.

this is a waste of keystrokes.
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Old 06-20-2017, 03:07 PM
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Rofl, you'll only be here if you don't get banned like you did on speakerplans. Changing from sealed to ported has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of power an amp is making or how loud the speaker plays in any range but that affected by the port, its irrelevant to this discussion in every way.

Running in bridged mode may improve your crest factor with higher voltage potential, but it will not improve the overall output capabilities of your amplifier. The cost of one of your amps is greater than an FP, and it will take like 4 of them to match it. The cost of 4 of your amps is still greater than the cost of a speakerpower amp.

this is a waste of keystrokes.
lol. The only reason speaker plans banned me is because levyte ran to a moderator for help when he was so embarrassed at being made a fool of. IF you check you will see on another thread the same guy kept talking about pictures of amplifiers, and was bashing the AA 6001. Evenually he recants and says he has no proof the amp is bad, nor knows anyone that does. Then under a set up from me, he ran to the cerwin vega thread to bash that amp. Guess he didnt know they were the same. I waited two months for him to come, check the dates. The very second i posted, in he ran. You and him would get along great.

This is exactly your style, You deliberately insult others to try and make them do something to get banned. You deliberately go as vague as you can, and usually ten others respond to anyone before you do. Now again you resort to speakerplans for a second time, thinking I am somehow embarrassed?. I will be slapping a like on your next sale of amplifiers lol. if they make it that far, and I feel sorry for all the people with failed and bad clones, but i will not be sorry for you lol. Nor will i ever run to any moderator in any forum for help.

Oh i least i forget based on other privates, everyone says you, ALWAYS HAVE TO HAVE THE LAST WORD.....
Somebody buy this guy a mirror.

A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are least under rated if at all.

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Old 06-20-2017, 03:58 PM
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Oh i least i forget based on other privates, everyone says you, ALWAYS HAVE TO HAVE THE LAST WORD......
Either post the private messages or stop talking about them. They are either private or they are not. Quit pretending you have an army behind you that prefers to remain in the shadows.

To these alleged people sending this guys PMs - post publicly if you have something to say. Apparently you all have made some very contentious claims, grow up and say it out loud. Here's what I have to say - people that think alike tend to group together, so I'm not surprised that you might be getting PMs aligned to your point of view. But since your point of view has been consistently technically wrong, how much value do your PMs have?

This might make sense if you think about it. It takes two (or more) people to have a disagreement. So far neither you or NOT have quit responding. Calling him out on the EXACT same thing you are doing is disingenuous and hypocritical. At least he's staying on topic and demonstrating technical proficiency.

NOT provides a lot of value to this forum. What have you provided other than demonstrating a refusal to learn from information that's being hand fed to you?
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Old 06-20-2017, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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lol. The only reason speaker plans banned me is because levyte ran to a moderator for help when he was so embarrassed at being made a fool of. IF you check you will see on another thread the same guy kept talking about pictures of amplifiers, and was bashing the AA 6001. Evenually he recants and says he has no proof the amp is bad, nor knows anyone that does. Then under a set up from me, he ran to the cerwin vega thread to bash that amp. Guess he didnt know they were the same. I waited two months for him to come, check the dates. The very second i posted, in he ran. You and him would get along great.

This is exactly your style, You deliberately insult others to try and make them do something to get banned. You deliberately go as vague as you can, and usually ten others respond to anyone before you do. Now again you resort to speakerplans for a second time, thinking I am somehow embarrassed?. I will be slapping a like on your next sale of amplifiers lol. if they make it that far, and I feel sorry for all the people with failed and bad clones, but i will not be sorry for you lol. Nor will i ever run to any moderator in any forum for help.

Oh i least i forget based on other privates, everyone says you, ALWAYS HAVE TO HAVE THE LAST WORD.....
Somebody buy this guy a mirror.
Again, complete post without any technical merit. But let me point out some further hypocrisy in bold. I will continue to debunk the rubbish you post, as I do with anyone else who posts rubbish. There's just more of it from you than most others.
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I wonder why it is that some people don't have a moment of clarity to ask themselves why there is not a single person they get along with or why there is always 100% friction with all of their interactions. Everyone is wrong and they are the only one who is right. I can't imagine ever believing that.
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Old Yesterday, 08:16 PM
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I wonder why it is that some people don't have a moment of clarity to ask themselves why there is not a single person they get along with or why there is always 100% friction with all of their interactions. Everyone is wrong and they are the only one who is right. I can't imagine ever believing that.
Not that I'm supporting him, but it does happen. Ever watch Twelve Angry Men? I've actually been a juror in a court case that actually played out that way. I was the lone hold out against the other 11 and eventually convinced them to see things my way.
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Old Yesterday, 08:35 PM
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Not that I'm supporting him, but it does happen. Ever watch Twelve Angry Men? I've actually been a juror in a court case that actually played out that way. I was the lone hold out against the other 11 and eventually convinced them to see things my way.
It's about the friction in all interactions, on all forums, on all topics. I can disagree with everyone and maintain poise and respect.
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12 angry men is a FANTASTIC movie even if the isn't any bass at all in it ☺
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Old Today, 06:29 AM
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12 angry men is a FANTASTIC movie even if the isn't any bass at all in it ☺
You watch movies without any bass? We're going to have to ask you to leave this subforum.
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Originally Posted by SpinMonster View Post
I wonder why it is that some people don't have a moment of clarity to ask themselves why there is not a single person they get along with or why there is always 100% friction with all of their interactions. Everyone is wrong and they are the only one who is right. I can't imagine ever believing that.
Because: http://25cognitivebiases.com/
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I know............... nynot really does need all the help he can get.............................. I am sorry if you think I am doing everything wrong. Even my Broker was telling me it was wrong to sell all my nasdaq stock, and even my dad, thought the properties i was buying where complete garbage. Save money at home people. Old school will always keep you happy at home.

All the subs used in pro audio use stamped steel baskets for a reason also. Weight lol
Typical approach of the impoverished intellect. Rather than actually dealing/refuting a clearly laid out argument, you totally deflect in order to mislead.

Actually, perhaps I am being unfair. An intellectually dishonest approach would avoid acknowledging information that clearly illustrates where and how one's assumptions fail. However, Dunning and Kruger's work shows how individuals with high levels of incompetence (perhaps because they are incapable of truly understanding information before them) can suffer from an illusory sense of superiority when they mistake their cognitive ability as being greater than it actually is. Not sure if your posts reflect you being a troll, intellectually dishonest, or are merely a manifestation of what is generally referred to as the Dunning–Kruger effect.
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Old Today, 04:34 PM
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Not that I'm supporting him, but it does happen. Ever watch Twelve Angry Men? I've actually been a juror in a court case that actually played out that way. I was the lone hold out against the other 11 and eventually convinced them to see things my way.
You shouldn't confuse persuasiveness with being right
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You shouldn't confuse persuasiveness with being right
Jonny-player is great!
Who can argue with bass-a-lism?
We don't recognize we have a problem until we recognize we have a problem! Bass heads...
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Old Today, 10:20 PM
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You shouldn't confuse persuasiveness with being right
There was no confusion there. I, in no way, was supporting johnplayerson nor saying that he was right. I was only commenting on SpinMonster's statement that "...Everyone is wrong and they are the only one who is right. I can't imagine ever believing that."
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