Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 01:54 AM
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Upsides : Price, power output.

Downers....
No UL approval certification
No FCC approval certification
No CSA approval certification
Questionable CE certification? Could be just a fake silkscreen ( hey, it IS China )

If it is found to have caused a fire, who will be on the hook? Food for thought.



Question for Notnyt: did you match the gain to the gain of the Marathon 5050 when you say that the new amp has 6 db more output?

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post #32 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 02:37 AM
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These sound very interesting indeed. My EP4000 with a modded fan running two ohms stereo cuts out very quickly when running 10hz frequencies through it. Really f*** annoying.
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post #33 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 04:02 AM
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Hope you don't mind this notynt. It's older (2007) but thought I'd throw a couple vid links in your thread. Some may of missed these or find them interesting.

Behringer factory part 1
Behringer factory part 2

Sanway is located in the same province, probably also around the corner from Cannon and many other equipment manufacturers.

Good find.

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post #34 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gperkins1973 View Post

These sound very interesting indeed. My EP4000 with a modded fan running two ohms stereo cuts out very quickly when running 10hz frequencies through it. Really f*** annoying.

How quick, minutes or seconds?

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post #35 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 05:27 AM
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Penngray,

Were talking I reckon about 5 minutes tops. The fan I have modded is a 34 CFM rating so not mega low. I know my dual 1 ohm drivers (my error as I was a complete noob when I got into diy) wired into 2 ohms isn't the best way to do it.

The track was opus dei and make it drop bassotronics.

If this is perfectly normal then cool I need to look at something else. I have read loads off threads where people have been knocking these tracks out without any issues and some off these are running 2 ohms. I really don't want to put the stock fan back in as its too too noisy as the amp is only 10 feet away from the LP and I can't put it anywhere else.

An amp that can run 2 ohms stable is mega bucks which I can't afford.

I am open to suggestions.

cheers

Graham
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post #36 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 05:46 AM
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Quote:


Were talking I reckon about 5 minutes tops. The fan I have modded is a 34 CFM rating so not mega low. I know my dual 1 ohm drivers (my error as I was a complete noob when I got into diy) wired into 2 ohms isn't the best way to do it.

lmao, I remember this discussion now. Those are very important details

Sorry for the OT, back to deciding if the FP14000 clone and all the risks with it are worth it.

Two things jump out. Mr. Hurds comments scare me and the fan modification sounds complex.

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post #37 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 05:54 AM
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Have you tried comparing the marathon on a 30 amp circuit? You're at 20 amp before the amplifier change.
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post #38 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 05:58 AM
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No UL approval certification
No FCC approval certification
No CSA approval certification
Questionable CE certification? Could be just a fake silkscreen ( hey, it IS China )



What?
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post #39 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 06:11 AM
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Thanks again for taking the time notnyt - you put in alot of ground work for these amps, and your taking quite a leap of faith - appreciate you spilling forth all the effort to post up the info here for all to see...

Hope they last....
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post #40 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stgdz View Post

Have you tried comparing the marathon on a 30 amp circuit? You're at 20 amp before the amplifier change.

The marathon was running on a 30a circuit before I swapped, so yes, I compared directly before changing. Also, the marathon is fused at 20a.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michael hurd View Post

Upsides : Price, power output.

Downers....
No UL approval certification
No FCC approval certification
No CSA approval certification
Questionable CE certification? Could be just a fake silkscreen ( hey, it IS China )

If it is found to have caused a fire, who will be on the hook? Food for thought.


Question for Notnyt: did you match the gain to the gain of the Marathon 5050 when you say that the new amp has 6 db more output?

They're CE approved apparently. They at least sent me the docs for that. I didn't repost all that info since I didn't think most people would care. I have circuit diagrams as well.

I wasn't comparing sensitivity, I was comparing output before clipping, so that isn't relevant.
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post #41 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 07:49 AM
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So would it be a no go with a 15 or 20 amp circuit?
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post #42 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

So would it be a no go with a 15 or 20 amp circuit?

If its 220v, they rated at 16a.

15a120v won't cut it. 20a120v will work, but you may trip the breaker depending on how loud you have it.
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post #43 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 07:58 AM
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Question regarding fuse boxes etc... as I know zero about electrics. I am here in the UK and on my main fuse boxe for my sockets there is a 32 amp fuse. Does this mean that I can run the following amount off watts.

32 amps * 230 watts = 7360 watts.

Obviously you would have to allow what ever draw was being taken from the TV, receiver etc.... but am I correct in saying I could easily put 4000 watts through that circuit without any issues?
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post #44 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 08:20 AM
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Question--What typically makes an Amp 'Last'?
I've read some amps are built like tanks, while others not so much.

Whats typically the first thing to break in an amp like this?




Finally, I live in an apartment and I can't upgrade any wiring. However, my current location is 220Vs. Does that mean that I'll have double the practical amps with the same cables?

EG--The 20 Amp cables you have are '40 amps' when running 220vs. No, yes?
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post #45 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 08:43 AM
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I'm still waiting for the turn about when Behringer develops their own cool new toy, and they get knocked off at a fraction of the price in China.

I have no problem with companies wanting to do something better/cheaper, but blatant copying is just plain intellectually laziness, not to mention riding the marketing coat tails. They copied everything but the LAB GRUPPEN logo. I don't even see the Sanway name on the faceplate. Of course I doubt we will see anyone importing them until patents run out, as selling them in the US would likely run into infringement issues.

BTW, the CE mark is effectively a self-certification, not something which has to be sent out for. I don't doubt they meet it, as it was all designed out for them by Lab Gruppen.

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post #46 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 08:45 AM
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Sounds like something to steer clear off then. What warranty do you get with these amps from china and if something goes wrong what back up would you get.
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post #47 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gperkins1973 View Post

Question regarding fuse boxes etc... as I know zero about electrics. I am here in the UK and on my main fuse boxe for my sockets there is a 32 amp fuse. Does this mean that I can run the following amount off watts.

32 amps * 230 watts = 7360 watts.

Obviously you would have to allow what ever draw was being taken from the TV, receiver etc.... but am I correct in saying I could easily put 4000 watts through that circuit without any issues?

Volts * Amps = watts. The amp requires 16a at 240v

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkson View Post

Question--What typically makes an Amp 'Last'?
I've read some amps are built like tanks, while others not so much.

Whats typically the first thing to break in an amp like this?


Finally, I live in an apartment and I can't upgrade any wiring. However, my current location is 220Vs. Does that mean that I'll have double the practical amps with the same cables?

EG--The 20 Amp cables you have are '40 amps' when running 220vs. No, yes?

No, this amp has a different input module depending on the power. 220v will run at 16a, 120v will run at 30a. Also, wtf would you do with an amp like this in an apartment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gperkins1973 View Post

Sounds like something to steer clear off then. What warranty do you get with these amps from china and if something goes wrong what back up would you get.

None. That's the drawback. However, I sent in a Marathon MA-5050 two month's ago and still haven't seen it back or heard of any progress. At least with Sanway, they have troubleshot a problem for me and are sending me a new component to fix it. Granted, I will have to remove and replace it from the PCB, but I could care less about that.
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post #48 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 08:56 AM
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None. That's the drawback. However, I sent in a Marathon MA-5050 two month's ago and still haven't seen it back or heard of any progress. At least with Sanway, they have troubleshot a problem for me and are sending me a new component to fix it. Granted, I will have to remove and replace it from the PCB, but I could care less about that.

Your right, at the end off the day you can buy stuff in your own country with a warranty and have more grief. Its pot luck with most things.

Quote:


Volts * Amps = watts. The amp requires 16a at 240v

That would be fine then.
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post #49 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Also, I'm not condoning or advertising for anyone here. People wanted the info I have, so I posted it. Doing this is not for everyone, or even most people.

Also, the test fans I ordered can't get here soon enough.
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post #50 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 09:07 AM
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I am well impressed with the specs though. How stable are they at running 2 ohms stereo in comparison to the EP4000 amps. I know you have no need to test as you are not running 2 ohms but would be good to know if poss.
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post #51 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 09:14 AM
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<edit>

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post #52 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 09:45 AM
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post #53 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 09:46 AM
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Thanks for the writeup bossobass

On my main circuit breaker outside the apartment, it says

10(40)a ????
2400 imp/ kwh ??

220 @ 50 hz.


can someone translate that and apply it what is the maximum I can draw from this grid?


As for the amps and the apartment, I won't get THESE amps, but I will try a clone or two. I am on the top floor, and its a two story duplex, and the subs will go on the 2nd floor of the apartment, so I have some space.
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post #54 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

This is the kind of stuff Group Buys were made for!

Yep!

thank for your inquiry about FP14000 switching amplifier, which is a 2x2350w@8ohms amplifier, its sound quality and reliability are same as LABGRUPPEN. Our export price is usd726 or RMB4700 per unit; for more than 50pcs order, the best price is usd704.00 or RMB4560.00 per unit; for more than 100pcs order, the best price is usd680.00 or RBM4400.00 per unit. My quote is on EXW basis.


BTW, I have their catalog and prices for other amps. I WILL be buying from them, its in my neighborhood. I just need to figure out which models are suitable for 1000 RMS x 2 x 18" drivers in 2 subs (total of 4 drivers).
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post #55 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkson View Post

I WILL be buying from them, its in my neighborhood.

Win.

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

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post #56 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkson View Post

Thanks for the writeup bossobass

On my main circuit breaker outside the apartment, it says

10(40)a ????
2400 imp/ kwh ??

220 @ 50 hz.


can someone translate that and apply it what is the maximum I can draw from this grid?


The numbers in bold represent a potential 400% difference. So, more specifics are needed for that.

But, circuits serving amplifiers (or any typical circuits) that are fed off of a breaker, can pass many times their rated amount prior to interruption. Disregarding continuous test tones, typically the current demands of an amplifier are transient in nature. This means that huge amounts of current can flow, for relatively brief periods of time, from the breaker. They are designed to allow items such as motor startup currents to pass, as to not cause nuisance tripping. These momentary currents can be several times the rated interruption amperage of the device.

Translation; under normal music or movie usage, the breaker tripping from current being needed from the amplifier, isn't typically an issue. Now, a by product of current flow is heat (I squared (R)). And associated with huge currents over time is heat and voltage drop. With voltage drop comes higher currents. This scenario can get away from you and trip a breaker. It's addressed via oversizing conductors supplying these branch circuits.

However tripping a breaker from a kick drum beater in music, or big transients with special effects explosions etc in films, isn't typically a problem.


Good luck

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post #57 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 11:01 AM
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One of the big worries for me in purchasing these is how do I even know that I am getting the same components as not.


Chineese have been know to use cheaper components as a lot of people have found out when doing business with them.
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post #58 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 11:14 AM
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Re: Bosso's post # 51.

Thanks for all of the information. I am curious about a few things. You said a 50% failure rate. That does not seem too good for an amp that you have no warranty for. Is this accurate to say that you have had a few of these fail in your application of LT'd boosted sealed subs operated at sometimes very high levels? The inability to drive 2ohm loads well... Is that what condition some of the amps failed under? What problems were encountered, early clipping/limiting or shutdown?

Any amplifier with 4 fans is going to be very loud. No way around it. This is part of the reason why I sold the PL9.0's. They also had 4 large fans and were loud. I don't believe in fan modding either. The K10's do have a much quieter fan system so I lucked out there.

I had thought that the LG's were universal voltage? I see that they are not and you select either one or the other range from the factory, or could convert it yourself in all likelyhood, but universal voltage is something that is on my amplifier check list. I prefer to be able to plug the amp in and have it recognize and adjust itself. Granted this isn't something that most here would need worry about. I wouldn't personally even worry about getting the bigger amplifiers unless I was planning on running 240v.

I am in need of 2 more big honkin amps at some point. I had planned on 2 more K10's but unfortunately that hook up sailed before I could get the finances together for the second pair. I'd rather not buy these for the reasons cited by Mark and personal prinicpal, plus the no warranty thing or US repair center in case something does happen and I would really like to have universal voltage input, plus Bosso's mention of some failures is concerning, but at the same time it is very hard to ignore these when they are a 3rd to a 1/4 of the price that I can get on a comparable amp from one of the established amplifier brands. Gah! Decisions.
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post #59 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 11:16 AM
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I would not think you would be able to confirm (before hand) the same parts are going to be used.

I would also think that if people get these they know how to troubleshoot an amp. If Bosso had a 50% failure rate (from Sanway) and that holds true for other folks, there is going to be a few broken amps floating around.

On a side note, I just looked at the Lab site for these amps and man can they have some power available.

James
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post #60 of 4619 Old 05-11-2011, 12:24 PM
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