Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 4795 Old 09-28-2011, 11:08 AM
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I'm trying to decide between one or the other. If I get 4) Mach 5 Pi 18s, I don't want to blow up the drivers so in that scenario 2 per channel at 8 ohms on an FP 14000 doin 2,350 is safe all day. If the 1200 watt rating is conservative and I can do 2100 watts for peaks with a 10000Q then it seems to utilize everything the drivers and amp would have to offer. The other problem would be trying to figure out quiet fans for 10000Q as I'm not sure if they are the same as the FP14000.
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post #632 of 4795 Old 09-28-2011, 11:09 AM
 
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How is the low end rolloff on the 10000Q ?
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post #633 of 4795 Old 09-28-2011, 11:11 AM
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Don't know off hand, but someone inquired earlier and I think the roll off was in single digit territory.
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post #634 of 4795 Old 09-28-2011, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

On a 20 amp circuit what kind of power could I expect continuously from a 10000q which is rated at 2100 x 4 at 4ohms?

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Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

As well, same scenario, what could be expected from an FP 14000?

Well from a 120V line you'll get 2400W RMS and 4400W RMS from a 220V line give or take. Not sure how long the breakers can hold at peak output from those amps. For HT, I don't think it should be a problem as the peaks would be transients and the breakers should be able to handle quite a bit of current draw before tripping. So I've read.
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post #635 of 4795 Old 09-28-2011, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiGBADDABOOM View Post

How is the low end rolloff on the 10000Q ?

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Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

Don't know off hand, but someone inquired earlier and I think the roll off was in single digit territory.

I'd like to know as well. Unfortunately, there is no 'for sure' answer. There is only speculation but the LG specs list the 10000Q as good to 7hz and the 14k good down to 2hz.

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post #636 of 4795 Old 09-28-2011, 11:25 AM
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We have Notnyt measurements of the 14K right? so we know its good!! We might be able to assume the 10000Q should be ok to 7Hz.

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post #637 of 4795 Old 09-28-2011, 11:29 AM
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We have Notnyt measurements of the 14K right? so we know its good!! We might be able to assume the 10000Q should be ok to 7Hz.

Yes we do! So at least we know the 14k will deliver allllll the goods.

If the 10000Q was flat to 7hz, I think I'd be fine with that depending on the rolloff slope. I mean, if it's ~3dB down around 4-5hz I'd be okay with that.

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post #638 of 4795 Old 09-28-2011, 11:33 AM
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The rolloff might be a benefit in helping over excursion down low?? I still love my Velodyne SC-1250 amps. 1000Watts @ 4 ohms....modern/WAF looks, regular RCA connections, EQing/Low pass settings/Phase control and volume control. Includes a SSF @ 18Hz perfect for all those horn designs. I have 2 of them waiting for a build.

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post #639 of 4795 Old 09-28-2011, 11:34 AM
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Most likely. The 10000Q is often mentioned to be powering mains and not subs so I wouldn't be surprised that something like that would be a built in 'feature'.

Personally, I would use it that way and not with subs as I'd prolly get either the 9k or 14k for that. The 10000Q would save me a TON of rack space if I were to use it to power my uber mains. Hmmm...

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post #640 of 4795 Old 09-28-2011, 11:40 AM
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Reading some of the specs. I really liked the SNR numbers and I was thinking they could definitely be used as main speaker amps.

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post #641 of 4795 Old 09-28-2011, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

On a 20 amp circuit what kind of power could I expect continuously from a 10000q which is rated at 2100 x 4 at 4ohms?

Why do you care, unless you want to do sinewave testing, which risks burning your drivers up.

You're asking those voice coils to dissipate more power than a portable heater with those thick, red-hot heating wires.

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post #642 of 4795 Old 09-28-2011, 12:55 PM
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More so trying to be on the safe side. I figured if a 20 amp circuit would limit the available power of the 10000q then it would be more in line with the recommended 1200 watts to the Mach 5 driver.
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post #643 of 4795 Old 09-28-2011, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

Well from a 120V line you'll get 2400W RMS and 4400W RMS from a 220V line give or take. Not sure how long the breakers can hold at peak output from those amps. For HT, I don't think it should be a problem as the peaks would be transients and the breakers should be able to handle quite a bit of current draw before tripping. So I've read.

perhaps for HT, but for music listening? with rap/hip-hop, there are plenty of songs with 3-5 second sustained notes that could potentially blow it...

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post #644 of 4795 Old 09-28-2011, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

More so trying to be on the safe side. I figured if a 20 amp circuit would limit the available power of the 10000q then it would be more in line with the recommended 1200 watts to the Mach 5 driver.

Ah, we're on the same page then.

I've developed a knee-jerk reaction to all the posts asking what good a multi-kW amp is on an 1800 W circuit.

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post #645 of 4795 Old 09-28-2011, 07:45 PM
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I have been in contact with Sanway about this clone and just mentioned something about the fans being too loud. Here is what I got back, let me know what you guys think and if you might have some further questions I should ask.

"I will ask my engineer to adjust the fans' voltage down, and use the SUNON brand for your specail order."
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post #646 of 4795 Old 09-29-2011, 01:56 PM
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Wife just sent me a note saying DHL dropped off a package. DANG that was fast!
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post #647 of 4795 Old 09-29-2011, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

Well from a 120V line you'll get 2400W RMS and 4400W RMS from a 220V line give or take. Not sure how long the breakers can hold at peak output from those amps. For HT, I don't think it should be a problem as the peaks would be transients and the breakers should be able to handle quite a bit of current draw before tripping. So I've read.

how would you do a 220 volt line? change the plug on the amp to a dryer plug? realistically the amps could keep enough in reserve to reach their maximum output over 4-5 second waves?

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #648 of 4795 Old 09-29-2011, 03:31 PM
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Congratulation Luke! which model are you bought? are you using it to power the Cap?
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post #649 of 4795 Old 09-29-2011, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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how would you do a 220 volt line? change the plug on the amp to a dryer plug? realistically the amps could keep enough in reserve to reach their maximum output over 4-5 second waves?

There's no need for this.

Also, the 120 and 240 volt amps have different power supplies. Only the LG PLM20000Q has a universal rsmps.
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post #650 of 4795 Old 09-29-2011, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
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how would you do a 220 volt line? change the plug on the amp to a dryer plug? realistically the amps could keep enough in reserve to reach their maximum output over 4-5 second waves?

No, you will need an electrician to run a 220V/xxA (where xx is the amperage you will need to run your equipment) line to where you will be placing the amp. Then you need to order the 220V version of the amp. I don't think the amp has enough reserve to supply full power for that long. 4-5 seconds at full power is a lot to ask of an amp of that size and weight. I highly doubt their are that many capacitors in there. I could be wrong though, but not likely.

Full power is 14KW@2 ohms. A 120V/20A line can provide 2400W RMS. You're asking the amp reserves to provide almost 6x the power it can pull out of the outlet for 5 seconds. I don't think that would be possible nor prudent. Again, I could be wrong and there are people on here that will set me straight soon enough.
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post #651 of 4795 Old 09-29-2011, 03:46 PM
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There's no need for this.

Also, the 120 and 240 volt amps have different power supplies. Only the LG PLM20000Q has a universal rsmps.

Yea i was kinda kidding on that anyways however, on a 120v line with a 20a dedicated circuit, realistically, how much power could you get from the 10kq over a 4-5 second burst?

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post #652 of 4795 Old 09-29-2011, 03:49 PM
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oh ya beat me to the post so why then would anyone buy any amp that is over 2400 watts? how much more is a 30a circuit going to yield you?

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post #653 of 4795 Old 09-29-2011, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

No, you will need an electrician to run a 220V/xxA (where xx is the amperage you will need to run your equipment) line to where you will be placing the amp. Then you need to order the 220V version of the amp. I don't think the amp has enough reserve to supply full power for that long. 4-5 seconds at full power is a lot to ask of an amp of that size and weight. I highly doubt their are that many capacitors in there. I could be wrong though, but not likely.

Full power is 14KW@2 ohms. A 120V/20A line can provide 2400W RMS. You're asking the amp reserves to provide almost 6x the power it can pull out of the outlet for 5 seconds. I don't think that would be possible nor prudent. Again, I could be wrong and there are people on here that will set me straight soon enough.

A 20a 120v circuit can peak to double or triple its rated amperage. However, long term, you will be limited to about 2500 watts out of that circuit. These amps are literally packed full of capacitors. The only time you will really run into these conditions is with sine wave testing.

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oh ya beat me to the post so why then would anyone buy any amp that is over 2400 watts? how much more is a 30a circuit going to yield you?

30a will yield 3600 watts sustained at 120v, 7200 at 240v. These amps are rated for program power, not continuous sine wave testing.
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post #654 of 4795 Old 09-29-2011, 03:59 PM
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so why then would anyone buy any amp that is over 2400 watts?

You're in the wrong thread and forum if you're asking that question.

Many setups require huge amounts of power. Just take a look at notnyt's setup. Each of his drivers take 4-5KW to reach maximum potential. Now multiply that times eight and you'll see where the need for power comes from.



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how much more is a 30a circuit going to yield you?

Just multiply the voltage times the amperage and that will give you the wattage the line can provide. So a 120V/30A line will provide 3600W sustained. So that would be 1200W more than a 120V/20A line. Not sure what kind of peaks it will provide nor for how long, but I'm guessing that would be dependent on the breaker and wire size you use.
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post #655 of 4795 Old 09-29-2011, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

A 20a 120v circuit can peak to double or triple its rated amperage. However, long term, you will be limited to about 2500 watts out of that circuit. These amps are literally packed full of capacitors. The only time you will really run into these conditions is with sine wave testing.

30a will yield 3600 watts sustained at 120v, 7200 at 240v. These amps are rated for program power, not continuous sine wave testing.

Thanks for the input notnyt. Question is, what is program power exactly? How long can the capacitors provide the maximum output and how long will it take them to recharge? Someone had mentioned bass heavy rap music with 4-5 seconds of sustained deep base. Not sure the frequencies of these base peaks so would the caps be able to provide the maximum output of the amps under these conditions?
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post #656 of 4795 Old 09-29-2011, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
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Sanway is far more responsive than American companies, say marathon, who have had one of my amps for 6 months now. I haven't been able to get any info out of them either. Awful service.

notnyt,

You should try contacting Six Star DJ in Los Angeles, CA regarding your Marathon amp. Their number is 888.678.2735. They say they are not the same company as Marathon, but I have my doubts. When I looked up both companies' website registrations they had the same contact information.

I also had an issue with my Marathon amp that you had helped me with diagnosing the issue. When all my emails and phone messages went unanswered, I drove over to Six Star DJ and spoke with a person there hoping they would be able to help me with my warranty issue, the manager knew exactly who I was and mentioned my emails to Marathon.

Let me know if you need me to stop by the shop to try to push things along for you. I'm not terribly for from there.
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post #657 of 4795 Old 09-29-2011, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

Thanks for the input notnyt. Question is, what is program power exactly? How long can the capacitors provide the maximum output and how long will it take them to recharge? Someone had mentioned bass heavy rap music with 4-5 seconds of sustained deep base. Not sure the frequencies of these base peaks so would the caps be able to provide the maximum output of the amps under these conditions?

I haven't run into any times with these amps when I was like damn I wish I had more power for them. They're designed to be run at 30a on 120v.
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post #658 of 4795 Old 09-29-2011, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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notnyt,

You should try contacting Six Star DJ in Los Angeles, CA regarding your Marathon amp. Their number is 888.678.2735. They say they are not the same company as Marathon, but I have my doubts. When I looked up both companies' website registrations they had the same contact information.

I also had an issue with my Marathon amp that you had helped me with diagnosing the issue. When all my emails and phone messages went unanswered, I drove over to Six Star DJ and spoke with a person there hoping they would be able to help me with my warranty issue, the manager knew exactly who I was and mentioned my emails to Marathon.

Let me know if you need me to stop by the shop to try to push things along for you. I'm not terribly for from there.

I shipped them one of my amps a while ago(6 months), and they have completely ignored me for the last few months. If you ever feel like poking them for me, shoot me a PM. I'd like to get the amp back.

The last communications I received from them was on 5/11/2011:

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I'll give you an update by tomorrow in regards to this. I already forward this to our tech and I'll follow up on this.

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post #659 of 4795 Old 09-29-2011, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

A 20a 120v circuit can peak to double or triple its rated amperage. However, long term, you will be limited to about 2500 watts out of that circuit. These amps are literally packed full of capacitors. The only time you will really run into these conditions is with sine wave testing.



30a will yield 3600 watts sustained at 120v, 7200 at 240v. These amps are rated for program power, not continuous sine wave testing.

are you running 240v to yours? will I need to go to 30A 120 to make the 10kq worthwhile?

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You're in the wrong thread and forum if you're asking that question.

Gee, thanks! that wasnt really my point tho. I was more trying to wrap my mind around how often times in music listening, there are sustained notes, sometimes very low sustained notes, if you are pumping the amp where it needs more than it's being given from the power source, how in the world are you able to do it? Not's system for example, would basically need a 240volt 50a service for each amp to make sure that he has enough power at all times. the caps could sustain the rest. Now throw in short bursts and yea, the service can allow for 2-3x that rating. so you could get 10,800 watts off a standard 120/30a service, but for how long again?

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post #660 of 4795 Old 09-29-2011, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I was more trying to wrap my mind around how often times in music listening, there are sustained notes, sometimes very low sustained notes, if you are pumping the amp where it needs more than it's being given from the power source, how in the world are you able to do it? Not's system for example, would basically need a 240volt 50a service for each amp to make sure that he has enough power at all times. the caps could sustain the rest. Now throw in short bursts and yea, the service can allow for 2-3x that rating. so you could get 10,800 watts off a standard 120/30a service, but for how long again?

I don't think listening to music at home would require that much power, but I could be wrong. I think this is more geared for HT demands. Unless you're filling up a music hall, you should not have issues generally speaking. I'm sure there may be a few bass heads out there that could put the hurt on this amp and power system, but they are in small minority.

I have no idea how long the caps can supply the needed power for maximum output nor do I know how quickly they ca recharge for the next hit. Hopefully someone with experience or knowledge can answer that for the both of us.
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