Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers - Page 95 - AVS Forum
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post #2821 of 4619 Old 04-26-2013, 10:32 AM
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Just to update the status on my troubled amp. I've been in contact with sanway for a couple weeks now and they have been trying to trouble shoot the issue with me. There's definitely something wrong with my amp. When i set it up per their directions, the amp just rapidly turns on and off, VPL lights flashing. That's how I received the amp in the first place. The output voltage is supposed to be at 190v, I'm reading 204v. They have instructed me to change out some resistors on the power supply board to adjust the voltage regulator. So far even with all the resistor changes, The output voltage isn't lowering and continues to trip the VPL.

They're having me re calibrate the OSC board with an Oscope, but right now, I can't even get the amp to power on normally to do the calibration. Its been a couple days now, since I've heard from them.
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post #2822 of 4619 Old 04-26-2013, 12:23 PM
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I assume you have the "newer" version 5 power board that doesn't have the VPL pots to turn down?

Well that sucks..
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post #2823 of 4619 Old 04-26-2013, 12:25 PM
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That's correct. So they're having me try a 1k resistor from the original 2.8k to drop the output voltage. Doesn't seem to matter though, the output voltage stays put at 204v.
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post #2824 of 4619 Old 04-28-2013, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trike View Post

That's correct. So they're having me try a 1k resistor from the original 2.8k to drop the output voltage. Doesn't seem to matter though, the output voltage stays put at 204v.

Hello Trike,

Can you please post a picture of your power supply board?
There is a trimmer besides the power bank capacitors. The voltage is too high that is why the protection circuit is kicking in. LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01
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post #2825 of 4619 Old 04-28-2013, 12:01 PM
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I have the V5 power supply, they don't have the trimmer pot on it. Mine has two resistors in series at 1.8k. No matter the resistance it's changed to, the voltage isn't changing. It's stuck at, 204v. Something else is going on.
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post #2826 of 4619 Old 04-28-2013, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trike View Post

I have the V5 power supply, they don't have the trimmer pot on it. Mine has two resistors in series at 1.8k. No matter the resistance it's changed to, the voltage isn't changing. It's stuck at, 204v. Something else is going on.[/quote


Oh I see, wonder why they remove the trimmer as it would be very useful in troubleshooting the power supply when trouble arises, as you could lower the output voltage instead of working and testing at higher voltage.

You can also check these values

R31 = 230K
R35 =230 K
R43 = 8.2K



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post #2827 of 4619 Old 04-29-2013, 01:12 AM
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you guys sure are patient with your troubled products.
it's baffling really, that you guys are fine dealing with this kind of troubles when there's people voicing their frustration in the minidsp thread.

just make sure not to touch anything over >50V DC with both of your hands. and certainly don't touch anything above 100V DC with anything other than a single point of contact. it'll stop your heartbeat in a heartbeat smile.gif
i could just shake my head seeing those of you that had to wok with over 200V DC. that's much more dangerous than 400V AC.

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post #2828 of 4619 Old 04-30-2013, 10:36 AM
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Does Sanway not offer/honor any warranty? The savings between cost of these and the real one's is way more than enough to send them back for warranty service. Just Curious.
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post #2829 of 4619 Old 04-30-2013, 12:53 PM
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Hey Jay,

Thanks for the diagram, I'll take a look at those tonight. I put in a 10k pot for the vr1 trimmer, so I don't have to keep replacing resistors.

So far they have had me check
R50:100k
R42:330k

and they had me change R38 to 2.2k.

Still can't power on properly.

I figured they would've been able to help me fix it by now. I just didn't want to take apart the entire power supply board and ship it back to them. Then have them send me another one, It would probably take over a month for the entire process. Then again in hindsight, this is week 3 already in trying to find out why the output voltage wont come down. My patience is starting to wear thin by now.
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post #2830 of 4619 Old 05-01-2013, 11:01 PM
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welp, after 3 weeks of them having me trying this and that, it's toast now. it let out the magic smoke. something in the power supply fried. Now lets really see how good their customer service is.
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post #2831 of 4619 Old 05-01-2013, 11:24 PM
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Will be interesting for sure! I'm starting to look into more expensive ethic friendly options even though one more working 10Q would complete my setup. Just have mixed feelings after all the problems started showing. I bought my 2 well before all the issues were common.
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post #2832 of 4619 Old 05-02-2013, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trike View Post

welp, after 3 weeks of them having me trying this and that, it's toast now. it let out the magic smoke. something in the power supply fried. Now lets really see how good their customer service is.
they'll probably send you a complete power supply board and expect you to replace it yourself.. as they've done with previous cases.

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post #2833 of 4619 Old 05-02-2013, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by paskal9 View Post

they'll probably send you a complete power supply board and expect you to replace it yourself.. as they've done with previous cases.

To be honest, at the price they sell them for, I wouldn't expect more. It's only fair.
People know the risk they take when making the purchase. I imagine it as buying pre-owned equipment. It's much cheaper than new equipment with warranty for a reason.
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post #2834 of 4619 Old 05-02-2013, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post

To be honest, at the price they sell them for, I wouldn't expect more. It's only fair.
People know the risk they take when making the purchase. I imagine it as buying pre-owned equipment. It's much cheaper than new equipment with warranty for a reason.
but having to go through the repair process by yourself is only exposing yourself to unnecessary risks.
the risk is by all means, significant. more so when you're not trained nor have the knowledge to handle high voltage DC.

it's really easy to end up being dead with a couple of hundred volt DC running through your heart. and it doesn't take much current to mess with the rhythm.

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post #2835 of 4619 Old 05-02-2013, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paskal9 View Post

but having to go through the repair process by yourself is only exposing yourself to unnecessary risks.
the risk is by all means, significant. more so when you're not trained nor have the knowledge to handle high voltage DC.

it's really easy to end up being dead with a couple of hundred volt DC running through your heart. and it doesn't take much current to mess with the rhythm.

I completely agree Paskal9 and while it's been said many times, people dont seem to realise how dangerous it is repairing high voltage amps without any technical knowledge or skills.

explore the music
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post #2836 of 4619 Old 05-02-2013, 07:15 AM
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I did understand the risk when I bought it, I hope they they will send a replacement power supply board. I do understand the risks with screwing around with these high powered amps. I just try to use common sense when i'm working on it. Just because the power is off, doesn't mean the caps aren't discharged.
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post #2837 of 4619 Old 05-02-2013, 08:33 AM
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He will probably want to send you a power supply without the transformer. thats what he tried to do with me. Insist that it comes with a fransformer. the power supplies are a pain to change without transferring your old tformer to the new board.
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post #2838 of 4619 Old 05-02-2013, 08:45 AM
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Thanks Keager,

Good to know, I'm going to insist on a drop in replacement. He was trying to get me to calibrate the OSC board with a oscilloscope, but I couldn't even get that far with the amp not turning on correctly. I'm not sure how accurate the oscilloscope is. Rather just swap the power supply in and call it done.
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post #2839 of 4619 Old 05-02-2013, 12:12 PM
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Well, I gave the amp another "chance" I took it to a show (different venue) I was planning to use it as a monitor amp (yorkville elite 401M 15" x 1" horn)... I was going through the motions of checking the monitors and all was good on vocals until I started working on the drum fill. It was an electronic kit, and I was rolling up kickdrum in the drum wedge, and it got to a point where it started to be good, but would "cack" out. Keep in mind this was the drum wedge only, so only one channel of the amp was working. I had a guy stand where he could see the metering and it was hitting vpl on every kickdrum hit ( just kick drum) Again - swapped down the 4 channel of crown amp xls 2500 and all was fine... So then I took the clone amp back to my shop, ran music playback into it on 3 subs ( EAW sb 1000z, and it ran fine).. I suspect it's having trouble handling band program as opposed to playback material. I'll keep trying it in different situations to see if it'll be okay.... very strange. I also a + b'd it with one of the other 3 clones I have, and they behaved in the same fashion at the shop ( all ok)..
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post #2840 of 4619 Old 05-02-2013, 12:16 PM
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I have the opposite problem. Short notes are fine but once it gets to the 1second compressed stuff pop goes the breaker.. (Amps are fine however) biggrin.gif
My only other option is to try non-magnetic/thermal breakers and see if they are a little bit more robust..
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post #2841 of 4619 Old 05-02-2013, 02:24 PM
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Knock on wood, the 10q is still running the four jbl 2242's just fine. However before I bought it from them, I kinda gave them some bs and said that this amp was going to be the test amp,and that I owned a audio store and would buy 10 more if this one was good. Funny though after 2 weeks of them bugging me on yahoo messenger to buy the 10 more, now he is never on yahoo messenger .
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post #2842 of 4619 Old 05-02-2013, 06:23 PM
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With all of these failures in the first year I am still not sure why people continue to buy them.

War Eagle!
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post #2843 of 4619 Old 05-02-2013, 07:55 PM
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No ones putting a gun to anyones head and making them buy one. It's a complete gamble, i'd say for the most part most people's work fine. I know of 16 units in the wild of personal friends and not an issue with any of them. The ones on the thread having problems are the unlucky ones that gambled and lost. There are LOTS of options for amps but the power for the price keeps us all coming back! haha.
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Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #2844 of 4619 Old 05-03-2013, 09:50 AM
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No ones putting a gun to anyones head and making them buy one. It's a complete gamble, i'd say for the most part most people's work fine. I know of 16 units in the wild of personal friends and not an issue with any of them. The ones on the thread having problems are the unlucky ones that gambled and lost. There are LOTS of options for amps but the power for the price keeps us all coming back! haha.

Yes, but deep down I bet all you "gamblers" wish you had the real thing. The reason they cost more is because they work and if they fail they stand behind their 6 year warranty and have real techs fix them. They give real world specs and their product lives up to them. 900 bucks is still 900 bucks, if one spend their hard earned money:p on a crown, qsc, bryston or any other reputable amp manufacturer, they would still expect them to stand behind their product. You get what you pay for......or perhaps not in the ht world. wink.gif
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post #2845 of 4619 Old 05-03-2013, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, but deep down I bet all you "gamblers" wish you had the real thing. The reason they cost more is because they work and if they fail they stand behind their 6 year warranty and have real techs fix them. They give real world specs and their product lives up to them. 900 bucks is still 900 bucks, if one spend their hard earned money:p on a crown, qsc, bryston or any other reputable amp manufacturer, they would still expect them to stand behind their product. You get what you pay for......or perhaps not in the ht world. wink.gif

Not really, mine have performed admirably. I've seen better support for these amps here than I have from some "real" amp manufacturers. That said, you still take a chance ordering these.
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post #2846 of 4619 Old 05-03-2013, 10:23 AM
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With all of these failures in the first year I am still not sure why people continue to buy them.

Where else can you get 1500W RMS x2@4@10hz, in 2RU and <50lbs, new for $1200 shipped?

If there was an American or Canadian company that built such things, I would buy that instead, if for no other reason than for a warranty tongue.gif

Who wants to buy an amp that costs 5 times more than the subwoofers it is powering, when you could have double the number of subs-and-amps for the same price? redface.gif

Maybe Kesha can afford to use and maintain 100 real Gruppen's, but we cannot; and that's where their business is made. They could care less about us DIY'ers, they would go broke giving us the time of day.

If Gruppen and Crown etc really wanted at our Business (which they easily could), they would start making and selling amps to the masses at Best-Buy locations and drop the price down to mud-feeder levels. (like Yamaha, Sony, HK etc)


I asked Crown once how much it would cost to fix my iTech if it broke, they said about $800. I could buy a new clone for nearly that.
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post #2847 of 4619 Old 05-03-2013, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

Maybe Kesha can afford to use and maintain 100 real Gruppen's, but we cannot; and that's where their business is made. They could care less about us DIY'ers, they would go broke giving us the time of day.

lol at the random Kesha reference... She big in Canada?

 

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post #2848 of 4619 Old 05-03-2013, 01:05 PM
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I would probably buck the trend and go with the Gisen version of the FP14000 if I ever need to step up to this amount of power. Costs a little bit more, but it would be nice to have another option available aside from Sanway, with some experiences on it, customer service, etc.

I've "moderately" increased my HT from 1,000ish watts to over 4,000 within 2 years, so I'd say I'm about another year away from it rolleyes.gif
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post #2849 of 4619 Old 05-03-2013, 01:29 PM
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I would probably buck the trend and go with the Gisen version of the FP14000 if I ever need to step up to this amount of power. Costs a little bit more, but it would be nice to have another option available aside from Sanway, with some experiences on it, customer service, etc.

I've "moderately" increased my HT from 1,000ish watts to over 4,000 within 2 years, so I'd say I'm about another year away from it rolleyes.gif

So does the Gisen version come with any warranty? Has anyone worked with them in the past? How much are they?
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post #2850 of 4619 Old 05-03-2013, 02:07 PM
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So does the Gisen version come with any warranty? Has anyone worked with them in the past? How much are they?

No one has that I know of. I think it came to ~$1,100 shipped the last time I asked for a quote. First person would be the guinea pig in trying them out.
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