Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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DO NOT MESSAGE ME ABOUT THESE AMPS.  I have nothing to do with Sanway or purchasing these amps.  Any information I have is in this thread.  If you have questions, CONTACT SANWAY.  The information is in this thread.

 

So in my quest for even more power, I ended up looking for the biggest amp I could find. That ended up to be the Lab Gruppen FP14000. However, I would need four of them, and a cost of $6500 a piece put them out of my range. Fortunately, the fine PRC of China does not care much for intellectual property, and has produced a magnificent clone. Actually, they produced many clones. The problem was finding a good one.

Tasso, CVR,and a few other companies will resell busted or QC failed amps, or even clones from another source. Many other companies will resell another company's amp and claim it as their own (shocking).

In my search, I found two suppliers who were producing their own units. These were Gisen and Sanway. I ended up purchasing from Sanway for a few reasons. First, they use higher capacity capacitors. Second, their heatsinks are actual copper. The only downside is that each amp has four fans that I will have to replace or put a resistor inline to quiet them down. I'm in the process of doing this now as I have a bunch of test fans. The fans in the amp are 24v. The amps are priced at $726 a piece. Quite the bargain if you feel comfortable wiring money to China with no recourse if your goods don't show up. It cost a little over $400 to ship them DHL to NY.


If someone wants to try one of the Gisen, be my guest. When I was going to order a sample to compare anyway, they told me they didn't have the parts on hand to build it. Two days later they told me they were good to go, but after that I didn't even want to risk it. If someone else wants to order one from there and compare, that would be cool, but the Sanway amps are great.

Anyway, onto the good stuff. These amps are monsters. My subs go so much louder now. Easily +6db over the MA-5050s in stereo mode at 4ohms (tested at 10hz). When the bass hits, it literally dims the lights in my house. I have 200a service. The amps are connected on four 30a breakers at 120v. The displays on these are nice. They will not blind you, and have nice level meters.

Now for the bad stuff. The amps weren't exactly perfect. The one issue I've seen so far is that one of the voltage protection switches when set to "hard" will cause the VPL light to light. This is only on one amp and I am going to contact Sanway about it. It's not a feature I'm using, so I don't really care. UPDATE: I have contacted Sanway. They have supposedly isolated the issue and are sending me a replacement part to fix the power supply board. I will update further when I receive more information. They said it was damaged by Franklinism which cracked me up. Franklinism is static electricity =]


UPDATE2: I have replaced the fans. The amp went from 75db to 52db at the front panel. They are nice and quiet now. However, the cooling is greatly reduced. I pummeled these for a few hours and could not get them to overheat in anything resembling a normal condition. I was running these HARD, very heavy dubstep at levels that became physically uncomfortable to be in the same room. They didn't come close to overheating. The only way I was able to get the temperatures to spike was to run them full out for over 10 minutes. Let me tell you, this wasn't fun. I turned off three of the amps, so I only had one enclosure and one amp running. The lights for -4 were on, and I turned up the knob another 3db. I finally was able to push it into uncomfortable territory. Beating on them for hours, I was only able to push it up to 73C at most. I was able to push it over 90 going flat out. The unmodified amp was on average 15-20C cooler. I didn't notice any performance decreases during any of this, and I would have pushed the amp further if I wasn't worried about melting the VC's of my very expensive drivers.

So, 300-400ohm resistor (using wire wound 5w) and 60mm fan and then an 80mm fan. It takes two of each of those per amp. Pics here, writeup here.


Here are some pics I've accrued from Sanway, and some pics of what I received. They shipped the amps DHL and they got here in 3-4 days. You can see their other clones on their alibaba page which also links to their real page. You can also email them at sanway.audio@gmail.com .

Pics from me:
























Pics from Sanway:























(older version)


Price List





Pictures of the 10000Q were also posted. It is very similar and looks to possibly use the same power supply with different amp modules.

I'm relinking the pictures here. Thanks DL86.



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post #2 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Pictures of the Gisen units I didn't purchase:



















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post #3 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 08:32 PM
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Well then, looks promising...

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

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post #4 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 08:34 PM
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Thanks for the pics and your thoughts - glad they showed up and are in good working condition - may we ask what the rough cost of 1 is on those sir....

I get pretty much the same effect when running my rig full boar - lights are dimming - gives it a club type feel....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Thanks for the pics and your thoughts - glad they showed up and are in good working condition - may we ask what the rough cost of 1 is on those sir....

I get pretty much the same effect when running my rig full boar - lights are dimming - gives it a club type feel....

Yes, thanks for all the info and pics, notnyt; I've been lurking in waiting for that!

Price is the killer feature... we hope?
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post #6 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 08:46 PM
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wow...looks great.
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post #7 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 08:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

The amps are priced at $726 a piece. Quite the bargain if you feel comfortable wiring money to China with no recourse if your goods don't show up.

...and indeed it is! Wow!

Thanks for the update.

Quad 5400s and two of these puppies... $5.2K and a ridiculous amount of output. Otherwise known as the 1/2 notnyt.
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post #8 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 08:49 PM
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$726 is nothing for amps of that power as long as they will last. I've heard of sanway before but it was some sort of mixer and not an amp. what did they charge you for shipping or was that in the price?
The scary thing is, I wonder what LG has for guts that make it worth 5-6K over these?

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #9 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 08:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

$726 is nothing for amps of that power as long as they will last. I've heard of sanway before but it was some sort of mixer and not an amp. what did they charge you for shipping or was that in the price?
The scary thing is, I wonder what LG has for guts that make it worth 5-6K over these?

It would be interesting to send both out for qualified independent analysis by someone unfamiliar with LG, and see what happened.
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post #10 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 08:58 PM
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Price is 680 for orders of 100.

Can you tell us what you think of their other models and more of why you chose Sanway?
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post #11 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 09:22 PM
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So can you tell where the FR starts to dramatically roll off since it states 20hz? I know you played 10hz sine waves but it has to be somewhere doesnt it?
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post #12 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 09:28 PM
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Wow... those look absolutely fantastic, beautiful.
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post #13 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 09:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkson View Post

Price is 680 for orders of 100.

Can you tell us what you think of their other models and more of why you chose Sanway?

I thought I did? Re-read the first post

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

So can you tell where the FR starts to dramatically roll off since it states 20hz? I know you played 10hz sine waves but it has to be somewhere doesnt it?

Maybe 2-3hz? These are designed to be flat to low. Look at LG's specs

These things are incredible.
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post #14 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 09:41 PM
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I wonder how much power they suck at idle. Do you have a Killawatt?

YID DIY
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post #15 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

I wonder how much power they suck at idle. Do you have a Killawatt?

115w
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post #16 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 10:13 PM
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Is there any way to assure shipping without blindly sending out money? Its soooooo tempting but quite risky.

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

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post #17 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 10:24 PM
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Can you specify 120v or 240v versions?

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

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post #18 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 10:39 PM
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Good price! makes even Behringer look expensive

Impressive.

"I should really see what dB levels I'm pushing. Long as it can't foam my beer during a movie we are ok "
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post #19 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 11:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiSounds View Post

Is there any way to assure shipping without blindly sending out money? Its soooooo tempting but quite risky.

Nope. Therein lies the rub.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiSounds View Post

Can you specify 120v or 240v versions?

yes
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post #20 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 11:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Working on quieting them down now. I put in some replacement 24v 80mm fans I had. Very quiet. Now to deal with the 60mm fans. I may just use a resistor. I'll have to abuse it a bit and see if it doesn't heat soak after I finish. Too many things going on at once, so progress is slow

These things are loud.
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post #21 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 11:10 PM
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I mean how did you know that they had copper cooling plates and the other company didn't? What other types of questions like this did you ask?

I am considering buying something from them, not that model I don't think. For the same "clone", I want to know what kind of questions and diligence you did to decide which was best?
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post #22 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 11:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkson View Post

I mean how did you know that they had copper cooling plates and the other company didn't? What other types of questions like this did you ask?

I am considering buying something from them, not that model I don't think. For the same "clone", I want to know what kind of questions and diligence you did to decide which was best?

I got pics of the hardware
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post #23 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 11:31 PM
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that is some pretty cool homework that you have done there sir!

you've got to be pushing your luck though running potentially 7000 watts at 10hz into those drivers, no? hope you don't crash or cook them.

great pics of the insides.

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post #24 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 11:36 PM - Thread Starter
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that is some pretty cool homework that you have done there sir!

you've got to be pushing your luck though running potentially 7000 watts at 10hz into those drivers, no? hope you don't crash or cook them.

great pics of the insides.

Running at 4ohms. Only 4400w per driver I also didn't push them full out.
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post #25 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 11:53 PM
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whats the highest draw you've seen on the killawatt with these amps?
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post #26 of 4761 Old 05-10-2011, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

Running at 4ohms. Only 4400w per driver I also didn't push them full out.

4400W per driver? You nuts man!! I like it.
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post #27 of 4761 Old 05-11-2011, 12:08 AM - Thread Starter
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whats the highest draw you've seen on the killawatt with these amps?

killawatts are only rated to 15a.

I'm not gonna fry it

I reckon they'll pull a full 30a.
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post #28 of 4761 Old 05-11-2011, 12:15 AM
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How was the noise of the stock FP 14000 compared to the stock Marathon? I was just trying to find a mondo amp to replace a Crown K2 as I keep seeing the clip lights at a 2ohm load.
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post #29 of 4761 Old 05-11-2011, 01:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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How was the noise of the stock FP 14000 compared to the stock Marathon? I was just trying to find a mondo amp to replace a Crown K2 as I keep seeing the clip lights at a 2ohm load.

Pretty loud, if not louder. Smaller fans and more of them.

I'm working on finding replacements for them. I think I found some already. I need to create or find a tool to remove the smaller fans. It's very hard to access the lower screws on them without disassembling the entire thing, which I'd rather not do, though I may have to. I need a phillips with a 90 degree head. I'll make one if I have to, but I'm sure I can find one somewhere.
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post #30 of 4761 Old 05-11-2011, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

The scary thing is, I wonder what LG has for guts that make it worth 5-6K over these?


I bet the extra cost is R&D, warranty, customer service, repair centers, having people in North America, marketing and safety testing.

If something happens to the amp don't expect them to fix it.
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