3 4Pis are being imagined in my head - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 100 Old 05-12-2011, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
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So I'm in the process of doing a complete overhaul of my HT set-up. My old set-up consisted of a very cheap Sony 6.1 Reciver, 15" Cerwin Vega Powered Subwoofer, and a couple of VERY cheap towers. I dont even know what brand they are. I dont even think its a real company to tell you the truth. I have heard from a few different people that they consider them to be "Van" speakers. Meaning, somebody makes a few hundred of the same speaker, print out a very nice, glossy, pamphlet, and load up a van full of them and hit up the local high schools and gas stations. Baically, I ended up with 4, 500W, 3-Way, 88dB towers. Sounds very fishy, hahah! Anyway, they do sound alright to me, but I know for a fact most all of you would just laugh at them. After having this setup for around 7 years, I decided its time to move on.

It all started with new Subs, thats right, Subs. I picked up 2 brand new Eclipse Titanium SW9152's. They are my FAVORITE SUBS EVER. I have wanted these since I was like 14 (Im 22 now). So when the opertunity came to buy 2 of them, especially being brand new, I seized it. After alot of messing around, I ended up putting them in 2 EASYButton End Table Maxs. Couldnt be any happier. I love these things, very deep, loud, and clear. What else could you want? I consider these to be a 15" version of TC's 5400s haha. Hey, they were made by TC to begin with...

This is what I have next to my TV now (All bought brand new 6 months ago):

Yamaha RX-V667 Receiver
Behringer EP4000
Behringer MIC2200
2 Eclipse SW9152s

I think I have a pretty darn good start going on. Im in a 15'x20' room, with all the equipment on the 15' side. I eventually plan on getting another EP4000, but I can already probably shatter the bay window upstairs, so Im not in a hurry at all for another EP....

So my eyes are on getting a nice new LCR setup. I have had my eye on the 4Pis. I like everything about them. However, I am pretty sure im going to make them sealed. I have plenty of bass, and xo at 80hz. So im pretty sure I'll be fine on doing so. I was planning on keeping the same enclosure dimensions, and centering the horns on all three. Mainly for looks. Looks mean alot when thinking something sounds good, ALOT of it is in your heard. If you happy with it, youll think it sounds better.

Does that sound like an idea that will work just fine? Sealed cab, same dimensions, with a centered horns? I am going to go with the straight up stock 4Pi.

What is the best way of getting all the drivers, xos, and materials? Should I use fill? If so, what? Can I still order them from Waynes website? The only reason why I ask this is because it is MANY years old and Im guessing by now there are much better ways of coming across the stuff...

Also, over the years, has anything been changed to the plans? Anyone discover something earth-shattering by tweekin them a bit? I dont have alot of money, so I really want to stick with the bone stock version. Its like $380 per speaker on his webiste.

Thats my story, what do you guys have to say about my idears?

Thanks lot,
Tony G
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post #2 of 100 Old 05-12-2011, 11:25 PM
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Hey Tony, glad to see you are loving your DIY subs. I am curious how the eclipse drivers measure in the "Easy Button Max Design" I'm sure it sounds great. :-)

Once I got into the DIY world I found a lot can be gained for less.

Ok, so you are contemplating the 4pi's?

I to was going to get the $380 4pi kit and build the enclosure and go the DIY route for my LCR speakers. However, after adding everything up I was going to have roughly $450+ in each speaker. So after much debate with my brain and my nose telling me it didn't want to deal with anymore wood boogers. :-)

Sooooooooo, I just ordered 3 JBL 3677 speakers and said I'll call it a day. I had heard they perform great and deliver that big dynamic presence I was looking for. AND BOY DO THEY! They are similar to the 4pi in design, look, and size. Plus, I'm sure they sound very similar to the basic 4pi. The JBL 3677 retail for around $835 each but you can get for $527 each if you ask the right sales rep (PM me for details)

I know its still more out of pocket then the 4pis basic kit but in the grande scheme of things it's not much more after you invest hours in the garage and supplies.

This is just my opinion and I can't tell you directly which is a better speaker but I can tell you the JBLs kick some serious butt. I love mine and I've only had them a week.

For the record, I'm positive the 4pis are a fantastic speaker.
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post #3 of 100 Old 05-13-2011, 12:48 AM
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If you go to Wayne Parham's forum you can ask for the crossover schematic for FREE! I was looking at the 3pi and its actually $40 cheaper if you get all the parts yourself from partsexpress. You should see around the same savings with the 4pi. Someone did build a sealed 4pi with a centered horn for studio use. http://audioroundtable.com/forum/ind...12153&start=0&

Everything to build a stock 4pi can be bought from partexpress. If some amazing tweak was discovered im sure Wayne would have updated his crossover.

http://audiojunkies.com/forum/blog/4...-resource.html
Quote:


A few rules of thumb: Stuff small enclosures those with up to about 3 cubic feet of internal volume or less with 1.5 pounds of fiberfill for each cubic foot of internal volume and you should get about a 30-percent increase in box volume without seriously affecting other performance variables. For larger enclosures, add stuffing at a rate of approximately 1 pound per cubic foot and you should get a virtual-space boost of about 25 percent.


EDIT::::: Ok I just sourced the stock 4pi parts at partsexpress and it comes out to the same price as Wayne's 4pi kit. Interesting...
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post #4 of 100 Old 05-13-2011, 05:38 AM
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I built 3 of the upgraded version of the 4Pis and ordered everything ala-carte from the cheapest source. That ended up running $600 each plus cabinet. I waited for a 20% off sale at Musicians Friend on the $330 JBL woofers. They should have a sale coming up Memorial Day Weekend (if my memory serves me right)

On centering up the horn you need to address what to do about the port. If you eliminate it the response curve will be altered.

I built them as close to his specs as possible and I am quite pleased. They are behind my screen so I could care less what they looked like. My documented build thread is on his forum and Wayne's instructions for stuffing is spelled out.
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post #5 of 100 Old 05-13-2011, 07:26 AM
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I have the same two speakers on the top of my list. I started with the JBL 3677's and found my way to the 4Pi's. I am in the same boat as well regarding cost. Would say I am leaning towards the Pi's at this point but I could probably only afford the base versions. Curious how much quality you lose when you don't go the upgraded route? Keep us updated on your process. Will be interested to see which way you go.
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post #6 of 100 Old 05-13-2011, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Im pretty sure I will purchase the crossover from Wayne. Sure I know how to solder and all that, however I would just prefer to have them manufactured in a much cleaner way. That way I KNOW everything is right and will work properly.

However, are the crossovers the same if you use the Eminence (Basic) Speakers or the JBL & B&C (Upgraded) Speakers? I imagine Wayne will make me what I need, but I think I'm going to buy what I can afford throughout time, And I wanted to start with the XOs first. So, are they the same with both versions???
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post #7 of 100 Old 05-13-2011, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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And I know the upgraded version is probably alot nicer and all of that jazz, but I'm pretty darn sure Id be VERY happy with the basic 4Pi.

As BIGmouthinDC stated above, if I omit the port the response curve will be altered. Im not exactly sure how much that will alter the quality, but I cant imagine that the speaker will suddenly sound terrible without it and having the horn centered. Keep in mind, I'm commin from speakers that are pretty much the lowest of the low (When it comes to quality), and they sound just fine to me. Im not like most of you guys, with all your test equipment, graphs, and test tones. I dont take it that seriously....
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post #8 of 100 Old 05-13-2011, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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turdlepoker,

I have no idea how they measure. I dont have any of that equipment. Also, Ti's are pretty much impossible to model, due to the fact that nobody knows the REAL TS params....

All I know is they slam! And another thing that I know, I need a dedicated 20amp outlet to actually run the EP4000 to its potential.
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post #9 of 100 Old 05-13-2011, 05:29 PM
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Depending on which components you use there are differences in resister values and the Red/Black connection instructions on the plans Wayne will sell you.
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post #10 of 100 Old 05-13-2011, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Darn, I was hoping the XO was going to be the same for all the driver choices he offered...
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post #11 of 100 Old 05-13-2011, 06:49 PM
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Get the crossover after you secure your drivers, problem solved.
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post #12 of 100 Old 05-13-2011, 06:49 PM
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PSD2002= x8 16ohm resistors

DE250=
x2 20ohm
x2 30ohm
x4 16ohm

Difference is only 4 resistors and some polarity changes in the woofer & compression driver.
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post #13 of 100 Old 05-14-2011, 04:35 AM - Thread Starter
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So I figured it out! I am just going to build 2 exact 4Pi speakers, 1 left and 1 right. Then, I am going to make 1 sealed with the horn in the middle, for my center speaker. After reading a majority of the 4Pi threads on his forum, I noticed he suggested this setup to everyone that wanted 3 of them for their LCR system. He said having the left and right channels ported will make them blend to my sub system more effectivly. Even if it doesnt make that big of a difference, I figured why not. He must have designed them that way for a reason...

I am going to execute my plan by first looking for 3 brand new, resonably priced, JBL 2226s. Then from there collect me a few B&C DE250s. I am going to go all out and build the good version, minus all the super fancy electronics. Basically, its going to take me most all of summer to slowly collect all the parts that I need, but it WILL happen. I suppose the only modification I will make to these bad boys is make the baffle supper nice and recessed perfectly, and make a sturdy brace system. Nothing ridiculous, just 1 window brace. Once the enclosure is completed, I will round over all the edges and have it covered with a nice matte black bed liner paint. These WILL turn out nice, I promise. Its just going to take awhile to come up with the roughly $1500 needed.

Time to play the waiting game. I imagine its going to suck looking at 3, basically useless, 15" JBLs for a few months. Then, a little further down the road I guess I'll build me 2 of those 2Pis to complete MY perfect 5.2 system!! I wonder if I will even need an amp with these things seeing as how sensitive they are, Im in a 15'x20' room and listening position is about 10 feet away, I think a XPA-3 wont be needed untill I get myself into a larger room. My yamaha RX-V667 should throw enough watts at these babys.

1 last question, would the 2Pis be a solid choice for surround duty?
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post #14 of 100 Old 05-14-2011, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgaffner1 View Post

So I figured it out! I am just going to build 2 exact 4Pi speakers, 1 left and 1 right.

Actually you want mirror images with the horn to the right on one, the left on the other.

I just checked and there are several offerings of the JBL 2226h speakers on ebay, all with various "histories" you might get lucky if watch it. There are some that have been claimed to have been purchased for a project but never used. Be aware that this speaker is frequently re-coned and who knows how those perform.
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post #15 of 100 Old 05-14-2011, 05:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I am going to mirror them. And for electronics, I will ONLY buy new. I can stand not knowing the history of something I'm spending alot of money on. So yea, only new. funny thing is there are actually only 3 new ones on there. Too bad I aint got the cash for them yet
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post #16 of 100 Old 05-14-2011, 08:51 AM
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I am currently building exactly what you describe. Will be using the JBL 2226H woofer and DE250 CD. (Build Thread: http://audioroundtable.com/forum/ind...16208&start=0&)
LL
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post #17 of 100 Old 05-14-2011, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Yea I saw ur thread over there. Where did you get the drivers from?
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post #18 of 100 Old 05-14-2011, 01:09 PM
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I am ordering the drivers and crossovers from Pi, don't want to build my own crossovers as it doesn't really save that much.

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post #19 of 100 Old 05-16-2011, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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What are the H-290 horn's dimensions for flush mounting? All I could find is that is 3/8 thick material. I would like to know the radii and the actuall perimiter details... Anyone??
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post #20 of 100 Old 05-16-2011, 04:56 PM
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You are $45 away from simply tracing it on the baffles. Buy one.
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post #21 of 100 Old 05-16-2011, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Hahaha, I know. But Im in the sketchin mood right now and would just like to have it all figured out. Using Waynes plans, I basically just figured out the center point and wil go from there.
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post #22 of 100 Old 05-17-2011, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I got my plans all drawn up and created the cut list/cut layout for all three speakers. Im going with all .75" MDF with a double front baffle (Of course). At first I was going to go with a combination of .5" and .75", but after realizing I'd have to bump up the horn with a gasket, and cut down a bit into the .75" to completely sink in the driver, I figured what is the point. Just go with .75", do the same amount of cutting, without having to buy a special sheet of MDF.

This is going to be the first time I'm only going to be glueing an enclosure together. I know glue is plenty strong by itself, but I dont have many clamps, or the patience. Seeing as how these will definately be the main (Bwahahaha) focal point of my set-up and my bedroom, might aswell take the time and do it right. I had plugging up screw holes. I had to plug like 100 with my Easybutton MAXs.

So three sheets of .75" MDF it is! I'll have alot of extra, but I can always find uses for that. Perhaps for my 2Pi surrounds like a year from now?? Who knows... I am going to make all three boxes, and will also buy all three crossovers, but I dont think I'll have enough money for all the other components to finish 3 upgraded 4Pis all at once, so the center will have to wait. This will be over $1500, kinda pricey for me. Seeing as how I CAN afford the MDF now, I wil be making the boxes pretty soon. This weekend or next, and will have plenty of pictures to prove it.
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post #23 of 100 Old 05-17-2011, 03:58 PM
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I hear you on waiting to build the center channel...the JBL's really hit the budget!

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post #24 of 100 Old 05-17-2011, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
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For sure! There is NO way I can afford the $500 from partsexpress.com The only way I can do the upgraded version is by finding them on Ebay. There are 3 on there right now, for around $325. That I can do. Hopefully more will be on there for around the same price when I actually get the money to start buying. Those are going to be the first items I purchase. Followed by 3 crossovers. I figured Id buy three so they are identical. Just incase some resistor is changed or some gizmo becomes hard to find, yaddy yadda yada... There are alot of things in there and I want them to be the same.

Also before anyone says to buy the 2226s used. The prices are nice, but used just isnt my thing...
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post #25 of 100 Old 05-17-2011, 06:40 PM
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You don't need a center channel with these type of speakers unless you have people sitting off to the far side. IMO and in my experience.

"The boom is dead, long live the bass"
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post #26 of 100 Old 05-17-2011, 06:59 PM
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"Does that sound like an idea that will work just fine?"

yes. go for it.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #27 of 100 Old 05-17-2011, 07:21 PM
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i see parham has a kit for $380. does that have everything for 1 speaker? including cross over?
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post #28 of 100 Old 05-17-2011, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

i see parham has a kit for $380. does that have everything for 1 speaker? including cross over?

All you need to do is build the enclosure, the kit includes the drivers, crossover, wiring for speakers and binding posts, and binding posts. I just completed ordering two 4 Pi kits from parham's website a few minutes ago.

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post #29 of 100 Old 05-18-2011, 06:07 AM
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good to know. i might take a look at that kit down the road.

already in the process of building something similar.
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post #30 of 100 Old 05-23-2011, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Just purchased $100 worth of MDF. Enclosures will be built this weekend, along with pictures posted!!
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