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post #1 of 74 Old 05-19-2011, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
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The SEOS waveguide was designed right here on the AVS forum last year by some pretty smart forum members. Even Zilch had his thoughts go into the design and he was really looking forward to trying out the 10" version. He liked both sizes, but thought the 10" was pretty neat. Zilch was actually going to be the one testing these before he passed away earlier this year.

The project started out as a way to replace the QSC waveguide used in many Econowave style speakers that you could no longer purchase. I promised to get it prototyped and produced if a design was agreed upon. I've never done that before but thought it might be interesting. A few forum members figured that if we were going to make a prototype from scratch, we might as well try to make something even better. As the process went on, it turned into a bigger group buy for other waveguides and horns spread over a few different forums.


After a very long wait, I finally got the pallet yesterday and started unpacking. Let me say that these different sizes were packed really well and every space was filled with something. Very impressive.


Lots of photos.


I had already removed some packing material a few Iwata-300 horns from the top when this photo was taken.






Here's what the Iwata looked like, notice the tape on the front saying there were more horns inside!






I felt like a scientist removing something from an alien's belly as I cut open the tape.






They managed to get some big items on this pallet too. Here's a monster 38" diameter horn, with another "small" horn stuffed in it's mouth. And there's yet another one inside the mouth of the smaller horn! (I put a hammer there to give an idea on size)






Couldn't move those big boys until I took out all the small ones filling the other spaces. You can't see this in the photo, but there were even horns inside the shrink wrap on the larger ones as well.


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post #2 of 74 Old 05-19-2011, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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And here's a pair of the infamous "Mummy" speakers that almost became a group buy at one point last year. Someone just wanted to get the empty cabinets. I gotta say, these things are heavier than you'd think and made super strong. I placed a dollar bill on the front to give you an idea of it's size. A 12" pro woofer goes on the bottom and the top is a OS-12 waveguide!






Check out how thick the mounting flange is. You can see the bracing and the rear ports too. I'm not going to unwrap these any more than this. Yes, there were smaller horns inside here too!







Photo of the massive JMLC-200. I'm not going to unwrap these any more either.


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post #3 of 74 Old 05-19-2011, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Now for the "smaller" stuff.

JMLC-200 in the background. Iwata-300 upper left. JMLC-400 upper right. 10" and 15" SEOS prototypes lower left. Elliptical JMLC-1000 in the middle. Regular JMLC-1000 lower middle. OS-12 (Geddes style) lower right. I didn't unwrap the JMLC-350 which is larger than the 400 model you see in the photo. These are sitting on closed cell foam, don't worry!






Back view to see the Iwata and JMLC:






Some with color:






And finally the SEOS prototypes:


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post #4 of 74 Old 05-19-2011, 10:06 PM
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nice work guys!!






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post #5 of 74 Old 05-19-2011, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Of course, I didn't unwrap everything: Look at all these! I've got to package those up and ship them out by myself!






I keep a dehumidifier in the room. Not sure it's necessary, but I try to keep the humidity as low as possible.
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post #6 of 74 Old 05-19-2011, 10:22 PM
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jza really deserves a mention here. those horns look really nice. they appear to have good thickness on the fiberglass...no skimping. i hope that you are ready to get busy with more orders! just make sure the quality remains high!

erich, you really brought it home. nice work. you just opened up the high-end to the diy folks who could not otherwise afford it.

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post #7 of 74 Old 05-19-2011, 10:28 PM
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Erich,

Much thanks for following this through and risking your Arse for us DIY'rs. Those WG's really look nice, and I look forward to the measurements and listening pleasure to follow. Thanks also goes out to Jzagaja for putting up with all thr revisions to the SEOS including all the hard work put forward running simulations etc.. Sadly Evan isn't hear to share in the fun, and measure them in his ZilchLab.

Look forward to the SEOS measurements and hopefully a new/proper replacement for the QSC Econowave. Your blue E-JMLC's look awesome, now I am regretting not ordering a color.

Cheers!
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post #8 of 74 Old 05-19-2011, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBDiver View Post

Your blue E-JMLC's look awesome, now I am regretting not ordering a color.

Cheers!


The guy that helped Zilch might be testing them. There's also a few others that have offered too.


I was the one that ordered the blue simply because they already had them available, so I said what the heck, throw them in! It doesn't matter to me at all. If you want those, no problem. But there are 3 of the blue ones. I figured someone could use them for left, right, and center channels if I never did.

I also added 2 or 4 of the smaller JMLC-1000's. I think those look nice.


Some of these will be available even after I ship most out to the people in the group buy.
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post #9 of 74 Old 05-20-2011, 03:23 AM
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I was wondering what the smaller horn was. That is a nice horn too!! If you want to send me one of those for measuring I can check it out with one of my CDs. It might be the perfect HF solution to go with the Iwata

Awesome stuff here Eric, can only think how busy your are doing flat packs, JBL stuff and then this.

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post #10 of 74 Old 05-20-2011, 06:28 AM
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Sweet! I personally can't wait to see some measurements of the Iwata horns. that was one that jack didn't have posted. i have two pairs of 2" drivers, one that meant to be used from 400hz to 4khz.

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post #11 of 74 Old 05-20-2011, 06:38 AM
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and you will never sell them to me


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post #12 of 74 Old 05-20-2011, 07:01 AM
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you can have them for one miiilllion dollars.

in all seriousness, i expect neodynium prices should settle down in the not too distant future when china finishes stock piling. other commodity prices are already settling down, but maybe not as low as before.

you could order some of the ferrite bms ones instead. they are meant to be good too.

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post #13 of 74 Old 05-20-2011, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioJosh View Post

you can have them for one miiilllion dollars.

in all seriousness, i expect neodynium prices should settle down in the not too distant future when china finishes stock piling. other commodity prices are already settling down, but maybe not as low as before.

you could order some of the ferrite bms ones instead. they are meant to be good too.

Thanks


btw, Even the Ferrite BMS seems to have jumped in price. My waveguides and CDs alone might be over $2K

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post #14 of 74 Old 05-20-2011, 08:43 AM
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Erich, great work on getting those here, they're beautiful!

Noah
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post #15 of 74 Old 05-21-2011, 02:36 PM
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If they look even a fraction as good in the flesh as they do in the photos, then the build quality is excellent. Looking forward to seeing how they're used and measure.
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post #16 of 74 Old 05-21-2011, 07:36 PM
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I've seen the OS12s and was really impressed with both the build quality and price.
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post #17 of 74 Old 05-27-2011, 06:06 PM
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is there a pricelist for the next buy? with stuff that looks this good, there will surely be interest for another buy.

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post #18 of 74 Old 05-27-2011, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeh, I don't mind setting up another group buy. It will probably start next week.

They sent me a current price list with some slight changes. I'll have to post it.

Most of the items are either the same price, or changed very little. But for some reason the Iwata-300 was a very big increase and now in line with their most expensive items. I asked if it was correct and they said yes. I guess they're hard to make or something. So whoever bought those on the first round got them just in time.


They have some different designs too. Tractrix 1000, 350, and 200 and a couple others.



I'll try to post a screen shot of the spreadsheet they sent me this weekend. I'm hoping to get the website updated soon as well.
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post #19 of 74 Old 05-28-2011, 04:30 AM
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Wow, that's incredible work. On both Erich's and JZA's part.

Anybody else think that a cut-down ("bookshelf") version of the Mummy in that BRG-like green would be a hot-looking speaker?

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post #20 of 74 Old 05-28-2011, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Yeh, I don't mind setting up another group buy. It will probably start next week.

They sent me a current price list with some slight changes. I'll have to post it.

Most of the items are either the same price, or changed very little. But for some reason the Iwata-300 was a very big increase and now in line with their most expensive items. I asked if it was correct and they said yes. I guess they're hard to make or something. So whoever bought those on the first round got them just in time.


They have some different designs too. Tractrix 1000, 350, and 200 and a couple others.



I'll try to post a screen shot of the spreadsheet they sent me this weekend. I'm hoping to get the website updated soon as well.

Thats a drag on the IWATA costs. I still will need a CC if I like them

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post #21 of 74 Old 05-28-2011, 08:22 AM
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I'm not really a horn-expert and i've never even used one in a DIY speaker so I was wondering if someone could give me objective and subjective pros and cons of the various horns. Here's my knowledge of horns in a gyst:

-They make stuff louder
- they help us control directivity
-horn diffraction (like with any other kind) is bad for sound quality but necessary for higher output horns
-oblate spheroid horns have the least diffraction effects because of the gradual.. something..
-large OS horns mated to large woofers sacrifice "driver" spacing so the vertical polars are not flattering

So on that note, does anyone mind telling me, in temrs of pros/cons,

- WHAT is an Iwata horn?
- WHAT is a tratrix horn? (isn't this what JBL uses on their synthesis stuff?_
- WHAT is a Jean Michael le Cleac'h Horn?
- Is the SEOS-15 as awesome for HT as I think it probably is?

Thanks.
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post #22 of 74 Old 05-28-2011, 09:26 AM
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I'm just a beginner at HT and not even able to DIY, but I needed to take the time to congratulate Erich H and the rest of the enthusiasts on these group buy threads for putting so much effort and passion into these projects.
I haven't contributed, participated or bought anything and still I'm all excited over here watching the photo's.

Good luck guys and looking forward to the finished projects.

__________

Krakhen

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post #23 of 74 Old 05-28-2011, 02:01 PM
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Erich, any idea when the SEOS-12 will be available?

Noah
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post #24 of 74 Old 05-28-2011, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I told them that a 12" and 18" version would be nice to have as well. All of them can be ordered on the next group buy.

As mentioned, the other company in the US should have their SEOS prototype mastered very soon. All they had to do was work on the rear mounting flange. They should be cheaper by a fairly decent margin, but I'm not sure if they can do the different colors.


There are some other interesting things in the works as well.......involving 1 piece front baffles.........and maybe.......just maybe flat packs to go with them.


My super busy season at work is basically from mid April to mid June. Once that's over, we can start looking into other stuff that DIY guys might be interested in.
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post #25 of 74 Old 05-28-2011, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
As mentioned, the other company in the US should have their SEOS prototype mastered very soon. All they had to do was work on the rear mounting flange. They should be cheaper by a fairly decent margin, but I'm not sure if they can do the different colors.
Will they have a 12"?

Who's doing the design?

Noah
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post #26 of 74 Old 05-28-2011, 09:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not sure if the US company will have the 12". During the original discussion on the SEOS, virtually everyone said the SEOS-15 was great for 12" and 15" woofers and that the SEOS-10 would work great for 8" - 12" woofers.
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post #27 of 74 Old 05-29-2011, 01:17 AM
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post #28 of 74 Old 05-29-2011, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I'm not sure if they'll have the 12". During the original discussion on the SEOS, virtually everyone said the SEOS-15 was great for 12" and 15" woofers and that the SEOS-10 would work great for 8" - 12" woofers.

The ideal for the SEOS-15 will be a 12" woofer, but a 15" woofer will work very well too.

The ideal for the SEOS-18 is a 15" woofer.

The ideal for the SEOS-12 is a 10" woofer but a 12" will work well too.

The woofer that matches the waveguide width will look better but the smaller woofer has the advantage of crossing over well above where the horn looses directivity control.
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post #29 of 74 Old 05-29-2011, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jzagaja View Post

http://horns.pl/seos12.html

Are the dimensions correct?

It shows that it's 260 mm wide, 10 mm less than the SEOS-10.

Noah
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post #30 of 74 Old 05-29-2011, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Are the dimensions correct?

It shows that it's 260 mm wide, 10 mm less than the SEOS-10.


Noah, when you asked if they were going to have the 12", I thought you meant the US company. Which is why I mentioned that I wasn't sure.

As for the next group buy pallet order, yes, you'll be able to get them that way.

I have the SEOS-12 dimensions somewhere. I'll try to find them if jzagaja isn't able to double check today.
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