Crown XTi Series 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 11 Old 06-07-2011, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
FOH
AVS Special Member
 
FOH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,749
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 211
Has anyone had a chance to use the newer Crown XTi 2 Series amps? I know they were anounced some time ago, just curious if anyone has any additional knowlege etc. I love the feature set,...they're chock full of revised goodies.

Here is the PE link to the 6002.
Here is the Crown data sheet.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
FOH is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 Old 07-27-2011, 03:36 AM
Senior Member
 
clausdk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 340
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 29
They look promising. Can the power numbers be trusted? Even the rather affordable 1002 has 1400w bridged into 4 ohms.
clausdk is offline  
post #3 of 11 Old 07-27-2011, 05:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ivan Beaver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,639
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 44
I REALLY REALLY don't like the older XTI amps. I have not used the new ones.

The bass sound is wimpy-if you clip them it sounds like shatterd glass-the first limiter setting is -3dB (half power) so right off the bat you have to by an amp twice the size you need-and if you hit the limiter it is really squishy.

There is a lot of features and a bit of "power" for a cheap price-and that is exactly what you get or pay for.

But that is just my opinion

Danley Sound Labs

Physics-not fads
Ivan Beaver is offline  
post #4 of 11 Old 07-27-2011, 05:22 AM - Thread Starter
FOH
AVS Special Member
 
FOH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,749
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 211
I've never heard 'em, never used either series.

Good to know Ivan

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
FOH is offline  
post #5 of 11 Old 07-27-2011, 06:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kanaris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Montreal,Canada
Posts: 1,223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I have never been able to understand how they get 6000 watts out of 120 V 15 amps...

Mike


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kanaris is offline  
post #6 of 11 Old 07-27-2011, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
FOH
AVS Special Member
 
FOH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,749
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 211
Amplifiers can produce huge amounts of power, much more than many individuals think can be achieved when sourced off a typical 20 amp, 120 volt circuit. Due to stored capacitance, and the brief duration of transient peaks involved in the source material, amplifiers can exceed the limitations that Ohm's Law seemingly presents.

For starters, a circuit, for this purpose a 20amp/120volt dedicated residential circuit, can pass huge amounts of current as demanded by the connected load. The reason for this is to avoid nuisance tripping for items such as motor loads. Loads such as these may require several times their normal rated draw for periods of start up etc. So it's not uncommon to see a motor load, such as a refrigerator pull 20-40, up to 80 amps momentarily during start up. The circuit breaker, by design, allows these high currents to pass to avoid nuisance tripping.

Oftentimes typical breakers may allow amounts up to 7x their rated amount, to pass for about 1.5 seconds. At that point the tolerance for the allowable current begins drop and tapers toward 2x rated amount at about 30 seconds. So for the initial 1-2 seconds, up to 140 amps is allowed to pass in our 20 amp circuit example. Then subsequent extended periods can draw as much as 40 amps for as long as 30 seconds or so. This is a huge amount of current, and quite significant to our discussion.

So we now know the wall circuit is up to it, so it all depends on the robust nature of the amplifier design. First the power supply, and the output stage determine peak power capability, and continuous output capability. Generally, as we're well aware, nearly all source material we encounter that's associated with either music or film releases, possesses transients that vary in length, but generally they are quite brief in the larger scheme of things.

Amplifier mfrs. quote RMS, however this doesn't necessarily mean continuous. This merely means the amp can produce that much power for some generally undefined period of time. Some mfrs. may cite the exact amount/conditions etc., but the marketing department intervenes and perhaps embellishments ensue. The question is how long it can be sustained, and really how long is actually needed. Unless one is pumping out very high average levels, which isn't that common, the real needs are quite brief.

We need amplifiers with enormous peak capability, that we know. System wide, we can build in enormous system peak capability through multiple amps/drivers covering the all important LF range.

But, back to your question; mfrs. can build amps that can produce 6000 watts from a typical residential circuit. The circuit's good for it. And via capacitors and either a trick, switch mode power supply, or an old school over built jumbo transformer and huge amounts of capacitance power supply, we can get amps that can track a signal and produce brief amounts of several thousands of watts.

Thanks

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
FOH is offline  
post #7 of 11 Old 07-28-2011, 12:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
DanLW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,331
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 29
I'm planning to use an XTi 2 series amp for a future sub build. Either the 2002 or a 4002 possibly, depending on which 18" drivers I decide to go with. The main deciding factor is that these amps are dual voltage amps, so I can move back and forth between 120v and 220v countries (active duty military) without having to buy new power.

The fact that they have built in PEQ, among other things, makes it that much better.

It seemed the old XTi series was popular before the measuring amps thread discovered deficiencies in the 1000 series below 30Hz. No word on if they translated to the 2000+ series. The testing methodology was also called into question, as it was a continuous power test. Given the above comment, it may well have been able to deliver full power below 30Hz for brief periods.

Hopefully somebody with real world experience with the new version can chime in. I know the deficiencies in the 1000 were brought up with Crown, so it would be interesting to see if anything was done about it.

Still confused? Read "
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
" thread!
-Dan

DanLW is offline  
post #8 of 11 Old 07-29-2011, 04:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Ivan Beaver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,639
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanaris View Post

I have never been able to understand how they get 6000 watts out of 120 V 15 amps...

In the real world, unless you are using the amp to drive a drill or a light bulb, there is no real reason for the amp to be able to produce sustained high power levels.

The reason is that music is dynamic, Meaning that it has peaks that are much higher than the average level, but only last a very short time.

A regular wall outlet can provide quite a bit larger current flow than it is rated at-for a short period of time.

If you consider that the general dynamic range is 20dB, then that would simply mean that we need a 100 watt that would reproduce 10,000 watt peaks. A 20dB rise.

And that amplifier would run just fine off of any stamdard wall outlet, no matter what class it is.

Longer sustained output is needed at times for sustained low bass passages-so the amp should need to have a decent reproduction.

Danley Sound Labs

Physics-not fads
Ivan Beaver is offline  
post #9 of 11 Old 07-30-2011, 11:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
DS-21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,437
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanLW View Post

It seemed the old XTi series was popular before the measuring amps thread discovered deficiencies in the 1000 series below 30Hz. No word on if they translated to the 2000+ series.

See Jack Hidley's measurements in the test thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanLW View Post

Hopefully somebody with real world experience with the new version can chime in. I know the deficiencies in the 1000 were brought up with Crown, so it would be interesting to see if anything was done about it.

I found the ur-XTi2000 to be adequate to drive a succession of top-tier drive units in closed boxes (JBL W15GTi, Exodus Maelstrom-X, TC LMS Ultra).

Truth be told, I switched it out for a Dayton SA1000 only because the silver XTi looked odd next to my black AVR.

--
"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 
DS-21 is offline  
post #10 of 11 Old 07-30-2011, 12:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bsoko2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 4,318
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Not meaning to jump this thread, but I have a Crown XLS1000 & Crown XLS1500. I'm driving dual 4 ohm speakers with their own channel. I can't do bridged mode because it would be 2 ohms output from the amp and Crown tech serv advised against that. Now the 1000 in 2 channel puts out 350 wpc and the 1500 does 525 wpc. The drivers are rated at 500W each. Now the 1500 clips at 88 db and the 1000 does the same. However, I can adjust the 1000 easier so that it doesn't clips as soon as the 1500. Does all of this have to do with the DB sensitivity of the drivers which is 86 db? When I was running in bridged mode at 2 ohm out to the 4 ohm drivers the clipping was much better then what I get from 2 channel out at 4 ohms. I hope I am making sense of all this.

Dual Submersive HP's


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

New HT Room -  
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

bsoko2 is offline  
post #11 of 11 Old 08-01-2011, 11:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bsoko2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 4,318
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Going to give the Behringer EPX4000 a go.

Dual Submersive HP's


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

New HT Room -  
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

bsoko2 is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off