Building a Dinner Theater w/ DIY Speakers, Subs, etc... - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
dutchswan0311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Build Thread Updated 05/09/13

This post is being updated to include a table of contents. Thank you for your patience while this update is being completed.

Wijk Winery is a family owned venture of which I am a part. We presently produce wine in Pleasant Hill, IA, which can be purchased at dozens of locations across Central Iowa; including grocery stores, art galleries, and even farmer's markets. We are moving our winery to a new location in Sully, Iowa after we finish remodeling an old church we acquired from the city. The building has been completely gutted; plaster, flooring, electrical, plumbing...everything. The only thing original to the building is its foundation and external frame. The old wood siding has been replaced with stone, we doubled the height of the tower; and we intent to erect two more towers in the back.

In this new winery location, we will have a space for weddings, receptions, events, as well as a licensed dinner theater. My original plan called for some pretty expensive in-wall speakers & subs, but after joining this forum I received 100% feedback that these would not be sufficient for our application. Further research and refinement of my plan has led me to building all of the speakers and subs for our dinner theater, as well as the sound for our live music stage adjacent to the dinner theater. I have included many pictures in this build threat to walk you through the evolution of the cinema sound in our Winery's Dinner Theater.

P.S. I am not sure if anyone is interested, but if you click here you can view the construction album for the overall winery on facebook. The album is open to the public (you don't have to "like" us to view it). If you are not so inclined, below is an image of the entrance to our dinner theater.

July 4, 2010: We tour a vacant former church for the first time. It is owned by the city and there is a proposal to demolish the 1929 building and sell the two lots on which it rests for residential housing. The structure is excellent, and is on a poured foundation. Our proposal is made for us to purchase the old church and turn it into our winery; thereby creating jobs, bringing business to the town (not to mention giving the citizens of Sully something to do). In December 2010, we purchase the property for $1.


F20 Subwoofer Build

General F20 Discussion (Placement, Crossover, Etc)
Subwoofer Highpass/Lowpass Discussion
F20 Wattage Recommendation
Subwoofer Placement Discussion
4pi LCR & 1pi Surround Build
4pi Highpass Discussion
1pi Discussion
Picking Out Amplifiers
Picking Out an AVR
Picking Out Projector
Baffle Wall Design
Picking Out an AT Screen
A/V over Cat6/HDBaseT

dutchswan0311 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
dutchswan0311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11

F20 SUBWOOFER (x4 FOR LFE)

I will update our progress (with pictures) on the F20 subs below. We ended up purchasing the Dayton 390HF driver for this cabinet, which is what will be used in all four subs.

 



I had Lowes cut the wood to size on site. While most of it was cut precisely, a few panels were cut to 18 7/16 instead of 18 1/2. The width is the more important than the length, so I had to purchase more wood to get all of my panels at exactly 18 1/2. I needed to purchase an extra 4' x 8' sheet anyway for panel 6 of subs 2, 3, and 4; but my lesson is learned. If you want it done right, do it yourself (or purchase a flat pack when they become available).
 


For the first F20 sub, I found the access panel very easy to cut perfectly with a circular saw and then finish off the corners with a jig saw. The left over panel is perfect for using as the access panel itself. I decided to put the access panel on panel 1 (left side) this time because it was just easier to make the marks for it off the other marks.
 


The instructions called for the drilling of 18 holes, 1" from the ends of 9 panels. I imagine the rest would be drilled drawing lines between these holes. I like symmetry, so I just went ahead and drilled all of the holes where my screws will go. I tested this on a scrap piece of wood using the a 1/16" drill bit and it made for a good guide, but also a tight fit. Instead of drilling holes every 8", I divided the space between holes in halves until I had the first spacing that was under 8". This means some panels will have screws 7" apart, and others will have them as little as 4.5" apart. 6" was the average. In total, I drilled 61 holes, which means 122 screws will hold the overall enclosure together.
 


The 14" diameter hole was easy enough to measure and cut. I am now I am ready to drop the driver in and mark my screw holes for it.
 

 

Lowes did not carry some of the materials needed in the specified dimensions, so I attempted to substitute similar items in their place and then seek feedback here as to the appropriateness of their use. The following are the substituted items:

Instructions: 10-32 x 1-1/4" socket head cap screws
Substituted: 10-24 x 1-1/2" socket head cap screws

Instructions: 10-32 Hurricane Nuts
Substituted: 10-24 x 7/16 Pronged T-Nuts

I see now that the 10-24 nuts and screws are actually larger than the 10-32 (which of course makes sense, but when you are just skimming the instructions, the number 24 is smaller than 32 so you associate 10-24 as being smaller without thinking about it). This has caused the T-Nuts to protrude on the edge of the cut-out. I will search harder for the 10-32 nuts/bolts on the next three F20 builds. Since the driver came in yesterday (07/06/11), I am now able to finish the first F20 build.

 



 

*

 

I am very pleased how everything ended up screwing together. Everything seems very tight, and the dimensions are exactly what the instructions call for. There is one exception to this, but I am not certain how big of an issue it will be, but might need some advice on how to correct it (I don't want to just start prying on things...I would rather learn from other's mistakes if I can).

I made the mistake of tring to put a 1 5/8" drywall screw into the long end of Panel 3. This is where the baffle cut-out is the shallowest. The screw protruded into the cutout area, and it separated the middle two layers of ply by 1/8". I quickly put PL in the separation, backed the screw out, and then put a cap screw/washer in to hold it together tightly while the PL dries. An easy fix, but beware of this if you are building this cabinet.

 



 

*

 

Instead of cutting four pieces of ply at 1 1/2" wide, I thought it would be more effective and create fewer seams to just make it one piece. I then glued and screwed it on from the inside using 1 1/4" coarse drywall screws. I really like the results of this, as it is much more solid than it would have been as four pieces.
 


[Update on 03/16/12]

The second F20 is finished. I don't know if it was necessary, but I went ahead and added the bracing that was later added to the plans. I figured it couldn't hurt anything. I used 3/4" x 3.5" oak planks (seen below).

 

 

I repeated the above process for the other three F20s as well, except that I used 5x5 sheets of Baltic Birch for the other three.  I have to say, the Baltic Birch F20s each weight substantially more than the first one that was made from oak.

Here is a view of the installed F20s under the baffle wall.

 

*

dutchswan0311 is offline  
post #3 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
dutchswan0311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
4PI SPEAKERS (x3 FOR LCR DUTY)

There was a small learning curve as I began my speaker construction project. I feel I did very well making the first F20 (which was my first attempt at any speaker construction). The same did not go for the first of the Pi speakers. My first 4pi was constructed of arauco, and was immediately after I finished my first F20. Not yet realizing that I did not need to use screws, this first 4pi was screwed together, including the cross bracing. The result was less than pleasing to the eye. I am certain it would have functioned just fine; but being the perfectionist that I am, I discarded it and started over with a new "first" 4pi.

My new first 4pi was then constructed of 5' x 5' Baltic Birch. I used screws on this one as well, but it turned out very well and was pleased with the results. It was after I posted pictures of it on the audioroundtable.com forum that Parham informed me that screws were not needed for enclosures of this size and smaller. Not quite crazy enough to need that level of symmetry, I decided to use the "screwed" 4pi as the center channel (OCD much?).

From there, I finally went out and purchased clamps in order to glue the remaining 14 cabinets, and this is where the pictures below pick up.



The two 4pi cabinets below were constructed using just a circular saw, a drill, a jig saw, and a palm sander. At the recommendation of some more experienced cabinet makers, I moved from "PL Premium" (which I will still use on the remaining F20 enclosures) to using "TiteBond III" and "TiteBond Ultimate" on the Pi speakers. I find that you must work much more quickly when using TiteBond, but it also dries faster and is MUCH easier to clean up (PARTICULARLY off your on skin). The only down side to the TiteBond when compared to PL Premium is that it is not as good at filling voids if your wood does not meet up perfectly, but I suppose that is what wood filler is for.



Presenting my first 4pi held together entirely by glue. Not bad considering only hand tools were used with nothing to guide me but hopes and dreams. (Yup...at this point I still didn't know you could purchase saw guides for circular saws.) I will post a couple pictures of the screwed 4pi when I get a chance.



While the front of the third 4pi enclosure had been made for some time, I was able to cut the remaining panels and box for the port using our new table saw (see watershed below).








1PI SPEAKERS (x12 FOR SURROUND SOUND)


Though I am technically (as of 03/01/12) still sanding the third 4pi, I moved on to build four 1pi speakers using the same methods as I had employed on the 4pi enclosures. These four all turned out well, but I was sometimes making cut errors on my costly Baltic birch and had to sadly throw away some panels. One would think it would be easier to build a small speaker than a large speaker. But the narrow cuts and smaller panels are actually more difficult to achieve with precision using a circular saw (and not a very good one at that).

The two images below represented the first of the 1pi enclosures.



I used 60 grit sandpaper to take care of the low hanging fruit, and then moved to 150 grit to bring it to a nice finish.



The image below shows the stage of my project prior to purchasing a table saw; something I definitely recommend to anyone building a home theater.



A TABLE SAW IS FINALLY PURCHASED

"21" does not sound like a large number until you apply it to speaker building. Faced with task of building 14 more enclosures, and considering the amount of time it took me to build just 7 before. I talked the other winery partners into forking out the money for a table saw. We will use it later to build other things for the winery, such as decorative single wine boxes, among other things. In the mean time, it has made a huge difference in efficiency (not to mention precision and quality).



I go all "Henry Ford" on my project; a much more efficient process than building each speaker from cutting to painting before moving onto the next one.



I decided to build the enclosures without the fronts first, then go back and build all of the fronts, then go back and glue all of the fronts on, and then go back and do all of the sanding, followed by a massive painting party. Speaking of painting; I have been using Concrete Epoxy tinted black to paint all of my enclosures. It applies well in one coat, but I have been doing two coats for good measure. I wonder if it does anything to "seal" them up better as well. I suppose it could in theory.



Eight 1pi speakers are finished and only 4 remain. The final 4 are built and are in the final stages of sanding.

dutchswan0311 is offline  
post #4 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 11:26 AM
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,361
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 692
You did see my response to your post in the f-20 thread?

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is online now  
post #5 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 11:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rlj5242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Southaven, MS
Posts: 3,278
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 18
I'm glad you at least dropped the idea of using Def Tech speakers like you proposed over at HTF. I still think you need horn subs.
rlj5242 is offline  
post #6 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 11:58 AM
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,361
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlj5242 View Post

I'm glad you at least dropped the idea of using Def Tech speakers like you proposed over at HTF. I still think you need horn subs.

The F-20's are front loaded horns

This area done right will be a spectacular place to enjoy music too btw. what a great idea

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is online now  
post #7 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 12:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
desertdome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Elkhorn, NE
Posts: 1,732
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 220
Elemental Designs in Newton, IA already has the F-20 programmed into their CNC since they are doing the F-20's for MKTheater. If you want more subs, it might be easier have them cut them since they are only 15 minutes away.
desertdome is online now  
post #8 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
dutchswan0311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

You did see my response to your post in the f-20 thread?

I did see your post. Thanks for affirming that the substitutions will work :-)
dutchswan0311 is offline  
post #9 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
dutchswan0311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

The F-20's are front loaded horns

This area done right will be a spectacular place to enjoy music too btw. what a great idea

With four F20s, I thought it would be awesome to even have like "nightclub" nights once a week to get them really thumping! :-)
dutchswan0311 is offline  
post #10 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
dutchswan0311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

Elemental Designs in Newton, IA already has the F-20 programmed into their CNC since they are doing the F-20's for MKTheater. If you want more subs, it might be easier have them cut them since they are only 15 minutes away.

Awesome idea! (How did you even know that?) Newton is very close to the winery...but a little further from where I live in Clive.

On the first one, Lowes actually performed the 14 cuts @ $0.25 per cut lol. When I measured the panels at home, they actually did a pretty good job. A couple of panels are 1/32 - 1/16 long, but I think that should be within the tolerance range...don't you think? I will have to do the beveling myself, which I suppose the CNC would do as well. There is something to be said about precision.
dutchswan0311 is offline  
post #11 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 02:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
desertdome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Elkhorn, NE
Posts: 1,732
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

(How did you even know that?)

The facebook page you linked to in your first post says the winery is in Sully, IA.
desertdome is online now  
post #12 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
dutchswan0311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

The facebook page you linked to in your first post says the winery is in Sully, IA.

I meant how did you know that a place in Newton is making F20s for another theater?
dutchswan0311 is offline  
post #13 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 02:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
flyng_fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Frisco, TX
Posts: 3,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

I meant how did you know that a place in Newton is making F20s for another theater?

Everyone knows what's going on in MKTheater's current project!

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
flyng_fool is offline  
post #14 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 02:52 PM
Advanced Member
 
NWCgrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 847
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 84
Small world, a good friend of mine is from Newton, IA. I did not know that ED was from IA.

I am currently building a set of three 4 Pi speakers (only have the drivers and x-overs to complete two, the third will go into long-term storage until I return from overseas). I considered JBL 3677s and Deluxe Econowaves for the L/C/R speakers. But in the end, the Pi design seemed to offer what I needed and with them available in a kit I could build my own enclosures.

For surround I am also leaning towards the JBL 8320s, for the price they seem hard to beat for surround duty. Picked up the idea of the 8320's from MKtheater's build thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1225270).

I bet no matter which way you go it will sound great since you seem willing to put the effort into optimizing the overall "system." Killer idea!

Varibus Mari Victoria
NWCgrad is offline  
post #15 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
dutchswan0311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

Everyone knows what's going on in MKTheater's current project!

After googling it, I realize that MKTheater is actually a person, not a theater. He must live in my area if a company in Newton is doing the CNC work?
dutchswan0311 is offline  
post #16 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
dutchswan0311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post

Small world, a good friend of mine is from Newton, IA. I did not know that ED was from IA.

What are the odds that I would settle on the F20, and that our winery would be a mere 10-15 minutes away from ED where another set is being built. I guess it was meant to be :-)

I am currently building a set of three 4 Pi speakers (only have the drivers and x-overs to complete two, the third will go into long-term storage until I return from overseas).

Are you finding these to be an easy build?

For surround I am also leaning towards the JBL 8320s, for the price they seem hard to beat for surround duty.

Yea, for $450/pair it seems like a bargain since I need at least 8 of them.

.
dutchswan0311 is offline  
post #17 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
dutchswan0311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Can anyone provide guidance on sub placement in the floorplans above? I understand that using a meter would be ideal, but I cannot have these monsters just sitting anywhere. They need to be out of sight as much as possible. I have to keep telling myself, we are putting a theater in a winery; not a winery into a theater. :-)
dutchswan0311 is offline  
post #18 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 03:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Looneybomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 4,668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post

For surround I am also leaning towards the JBL 8320s, for the price they seem hard to beat for surround duty. Picked up the idea of the 8320's from MKtheater's build thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1225270).

For the price they would be hard to beat...if they actually sounded good. After hearing them in a theater, I found it iffy to buy them when Eric was selling them at blow-out prices. Way too much energy in the 2-6k area and quite the rolloff above 10-12khz.

YID DIY
Looneybomber is offline  
post #19 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 03:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
desertdome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Elkhorn, NE
Posts: 1,732
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

After googling it, I realize that MKTheater is actually a person, not a theater. He must live in my area if a company in Newton is doing the CNC work?

He lives in New Hartford, NY and he is having them build the F-20 completely. Besides their own speakers and subs, Elemental Designs does custom work for people all over the world. I know of many that have had flatpacks made for DIY speakers. Here is a DIY speaker that they shipped to Australia.
desertdome is online now  
post #20 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
dutchswan0311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Ooooooooooh BEVELING. After having only skimmed the instructions, I thought it was calling for the side panel to have grooves cut into for the various 18.5" panels to be put into. Now that I finally have the .skp file open, I see what everyone was talking about. You should see some of the coffered ceilings and bars I have built. This sub is going to be a piece of cake (famous last words...I know).

Update: After having looked more closely at MKTheater's build, it appears like the side panels have been cut into, probably with a lathe or grinder. Perhaps I should just shut up until I have read all of the instructions carefully.
dutchswan0311 is offline  
post #21 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 03:23 PM
Advanced Member
 
NWCgrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 847
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 84
The 4 Pi's are easy to build. I increased the complexity by adding oak internal framing to the MDF box for additional rigidity due to my frequent miltary moves.

Wayne Parham, the designer, provides free plans all you have to do is ask (http://audioroundtable.com/forum/ind...ead&frm_id=33&). The plans include schematics for the crossovers, but I chose to buy completed crossovers from him as they were only slightly higher cost than ordering the parts.

Wayne is a great guy and provides a lot of valuable design advice to the DIY community. For the price (basically the cost of the components), his speakers are hard to beat. I figure if by small chance I hate the speakers I can sell the JBL woofers and B&C compression drivers and recoup most of my invetment (except enclosure cost).

Varibus Mari Victoria
NWCgrad is offline  
post #22 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
dutchswan0311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

He lives in New Hartford, NY and he is having them build the F-20 completely. Besides their own speakers and subs, Elemental Designs does custom work for people all over the world. I know of many that have had flatpacks made for DIY speakers. Here is a DIY speaker that they shipped to Australia.

That is amazingly ironic.
dutchswan0311 is offline  
post #23 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 05:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,193
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

Ooooooooooh BEVELING. After having only skimmed the instructions, I thought it was calling for the side panel to have grooves cut into for the various 18.5" panels to be put into. Now that I finally have the .skp file open, I see what everyone was talking about. You should see some of the coffered ceilings and bars I have built. This sub is going to be a piece of cake (famous last words...I know).

Update: After having looked more closely at MKTheater's build, it appears like the side panels have been cut into, probably with a lathe or grinder. Perhaps I should just shut up until I have read all of the instructions carefully.

Though MK chose to have it done that way, there is really no need to rabbet or groove the sides like that. The instructions do not call for it. If you do that - remember to account for the width of the interior panels that gets "lost" in the rabbets. I have built subs both ways. Rabbeting certainly makes things easier to build once the grooves are cut, and may make things slightly stronger, but cutting the rabbets perfectly for several cabinets really requires a template and some strong router kung-fu, or a CNC router. Since I don't have a CNC router, I had to lean on the template and router kung-fu, which worked out OK in the end, but it certainly was not easy or fast.

Honestly, the F-20 is not a hard horn sub to build. I tried to make this one as simple as I could. Read the directions - it should all be in there. There is more detail on the access panel in my design thread.

Accuracy is critical. Just keep the layout accurate, make your cuts accurately, and use enough (but not too much) PL and screws, things will turn out fine.

Good luck with your builds.

Hornresp Tutorials (By amateurs, for amateurs!)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
lilmike is online now  
post #24 of 585 Old 06-22-2011, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
dutchswan0311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Though MK chose to have it done that way, there is really no need to rabbet or groove the sides like that. The instructions do not call for it.

I have thoroughly read the instructions now and am happy to learn that the grooves are not needed. I lack the proper tools to allow for that kind of woodwork at this time.

Honestly, the F-20 is not a hard horn sub to build. I tried to make this one as simple as I could. Read the directions - it should all be in there. There is more detail on the access panel in my design thread.

As I was thinking about access panel design, I thought I would make that inner flange out of a single piece of wood, instead of 4 pieces of scrap. This would allow for a tighter fit, will be less likely to leak, and isn't really that difficult to cut out.

Accuracy is critical. Just keep the layout accurate, make your cuts accurately, and use enough (but not too much) PL and screws, things will turn out fine.

I am a perfectionist by nature. Given instructions, materials, and the needed tools I think I could build a nuclear reactor. I may not know or realize that is what I am building, but you get the point. The first one is always the hardest. Having finished the layout and carefully read the instructions, I am confident that building four F20s will not be difficult at all. You did a superb job on the instructions and diagrams.

I specifically purchased two 4" C Clamps because they were listed under the "minimum tools" section of the instructions. I am a little confused what these are for. It seems to me that the only size clamp that would do any good would be one that is 20+ inches. Thoughts?
dutchswan0311 is offline  
post #25 of 585 Old 06-23-2011, 06:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,193
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 86
I used the 4" clamps to hold the boards together when drilling the second side, as well as to hold the panels in place during assembly with a squaring jig. I use the 3d Squares, but a shop-made clamping square would also work fine.

Hornresp Tutorials (By amateurs, for amateurs!)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
lilmike is online now  
post #26 of 585 Old 06-23-2011, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
dutchswan0311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

I used the 4" clamps to hold the boards together when drilling the second side, as well as to hold the panels in place during assembly with a squaring jig. I use the 3d Squares, but a shop-made clamping square would also work fine.

Understood...that makes sense. I saw pictures of others clamping the 18 1/2" sides down after putting the PL & screws on. My thoughts told me that just the act of screwing the panels on would make for a very tight fit. I was not certain how much tighter the clamps would make the fit on top of the screws.
dutchswan0311 is offline  
post #27 of 585 Old 06-23-2011, 09:07 AM
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,361
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

Understood...that makes sense. I saw pictures of others clamping the 18 1/2" sides down after putting the PL & screws on. My thoughts told me that just the act of screwing the panels on would make for a very tight fit. I was not certain how much tighter the clamps would make the fit on top of the screws.

I just did the screw in method, no clamps and it worked fine. I did use the 4" clamps to hold down the saw guide to the board tho, that is a MUST.

Have you had a chance to listen to the JBL surrounds? how do they fair against standard bookshelve or dipole surrounds on movie duty?

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is online now  
post #28 of 585 Old 06-23-2011, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
dutchswan0311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I just did the screw in method, no clamps and it worked fine. I did use the 4" clamps to hold down the saw guide to the board tho, that is a MUST.

Have you had a chance to listen to the JBL surrounds? how do they fair against standard bookshelve or dipole surrounds on movie duty?

I have not heard the JBL surrounds yet. I will bring those up when I am finished with subs.
dutchswan0311 is offline  
post #29 of 585 Old 06-23-2011, 10:33 AM
Advanced Member
 
blackoper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 567
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 25
I'll let you know about the JBl surrounds. I should have some early next week. From what I was reading they can sound amazing. If I have to modify the crossover so be it
blackoper is offline  
post #30 of 585 Old 06-23-2011, 11:03 AM
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,361
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackoper View Post

I'll let you know about the JBl surrounds. I should have some early next week. From what I was reading they can sound amazing. If I have to modify the crossover so be it

what is the necessity to modify the xover?

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is online now  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off