Am I too arrogant?? or are DIY HT outperforming Theater ??? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 80 Old 07-10-2011, 03:41 PM
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According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imax#Theatre (though I can't find it on IMAX's website that they reference), imax theatres are classified as "classic design" or "multiplex conversion".

Films must be modified to be displayed on the classic design as the screen (like the film) is 4:3 format. I, personally, object to films being modified from their intended presentations. The other option may be to not use the entire projection screen, which is probably OK for me but also probably not for most people. Further, IMAX claims that the systems meet the same technical specs regardless of theatre type.

I'd suggest, therefore, that what constitutes "real IMAX" is a bit of a grey area. If one absolutely had to categorize (which actually I think is a pretty decent idea because I've been to some IMAX presentations that weren't as good as my moderate-quality home theatre), I posit that what is really needed is a catalog of IMAX theatres based on those three categories. Within the two non-dome categories also should have the screen size noted since this is actually the main difference (assuming that theatre owners are doing everything properly per specifications etc from IMAX). This way, you know if you are going to a "classic" theatre where they may crop your film (this is how I saw Star Wars 2 - Electric Boogaloo), and viewers can make their own decisions as to visual impact based on experience, and decide their own screen size threshole to pay the IMAX premium.

Of course this is probably what viewers already do... go to an IMAX presentation at a given theatre and decide if they liked it enough to go back. Of the IMAX theatres I've been to in the last year or so, one had the sound so high I couldn't enjoy ANY film in there anyway. We left and received a refund. One, however, has the sound at a reasonable level and a large enough screen to satisfy me and make it worth the cash.

The truth is that, almost inevitably, if I don't care about seeing some specific film in 3D I will almost always wait until I can rent it on gru-ray and watch it in my own home theatre. Even if it's due to the fact that I can eat BACON while I watch a film.
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post #32 of 80 Old 07-10-2011, 07:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

My IMAX is at the king of prussia mall in PA which is the 2nd biggest mall in the country. Its a huge tourist attraction. The PA one is a gigantic curved screen and I have never heard anything this good before. I have also been to an IMAX in new jersey that wasn't nearly as good. The screen was about 50% of the size and possibly less than that even and the bass was nothing to write home about, yet it still held the IMAX name. That is why I said real IMAX...when I say that I mean the big one. IMAX only has to do with 70mm film instead of 35mm. All movies are not filmed in it yet because the tech for the cameras cannot pick up dialog clearly yet. I believe Christopher Nolan is working with a new IMAX camera for the new batman that can pick up dialog clearly.

All IMAX theaters are calibrated to every seat in the auditorium. They make a huge deal about it at the beginning. They also advertise 20,000 watts during the intro. I know from my friends wife that other normal theaters are not maintained the same as when something blows like an amp...the manager usually just replaces without cAlibrating again.

Only 20,000. There are plenty of guys here that can easily beat that when you take room size into consideration.
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post #33 of 80 Old 07-10-2011, 08:59 PM
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The IMAX theaters around here advertise 14,000 or 16,000 watts. One of my amps will do that, and I have four

Who says you can't put pro cinema gear in your HT either? =]


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post #34 of 80 Old 07-10-2011, 09:04 PM
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You can...I have actually read your build thread previous to this and was impressed.

No one is saying that you can't install pro audio in your home and many people are going that route in their dedicated rooms, but there is no way you are getting 70mm film with a 6-story screen and be calibrated to every seat in your house. To me IMAX is the entire package that makes it amazing.

Basically you just proved the point of the original poster who said he enjoys his home theater better than your average movie theater.
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post #35 of 80 Old 07-10-2011, 09:08 PM
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a 120" screen at 12' fills the field of view quite well, and "calibrated to every seat and the house" is kind of a joke as the bass response in a theater is anything but even.

Also, not too hard to calibrate properly to a couch, vs a huge room

Everyone who sees a movie on my setup lets me know that I've ruined movie theaters for them forever.
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post #36 of 80 Old 07-10-2011, 09:23 PM
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I'm not trying to argue with you...your awesome and we all know it...the entire point of this thread is to talk about that exact thing
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post #37 of 80 Old 07-10-2011, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

I'm not trying to argue with you...your awesome and we all know it...the entire point of this thread is to talk about that exact thing

I'm actually quite confident Notnyt's system can match IMAX, if not beat it, at least in the audio department.
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post #38 of 80 Old 07-10-2011, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by paulspencer View Post

Commercial cinemas are usually designed for 105 db two thirds in and 115 db for the bass.

Yes, but how low does that bass go?

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post #39 of 80 Old 07-11-2011, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post

***In that same theater in another room I found the volume for Atlas Shrugged to be too low. The dialog was almost inaudible***

That sounds like a feature, not a bug.

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post #40 of 80 Old 07-11-2011, 09:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

You can...I have actually read your build thread previous to this and was impressed.

No one is saying that you can't install pro audio in your home and many people are going that route in their dedicated rooms, but there is no way you are getting 70mm film with a 6-story screen and be calibrated to every seat in your house. To me IMAX is the entire package that makes it amazing.

Basically you just proved the point of the original poster who said he enjoys his home theater better than your average movie theater.

What that really means is every seat in the house is a compromise. There is no magic box that can calibrate every seat in the house for best response.
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post #41 of 80 Old 07-11-2011, 09:56 AM
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I just thought this was a cool video and in no way am I trying to incite an argument with this video. I'm sure other peoples systems can do this as well.

http://www.imax.com/mobile/video/636748944001/

I am doing this from my phone so I hope this video works on computers as well
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post #42 of 80 Old 07-11-2011, 10:04 AM
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This is the inside of an IMAX subwoofer which houses 8-18's. Same amount of drivers as notny
LL
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post #43 of 80 Old 07-11-2011, 10:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aackthpt View Post

Agreed. For visual immersion, Omnimax is entirely unbeatable - but it depends on the film, too. I've seen Omnimax presentations about tornado chasing and dinosaurs that weren't all that great, while the "under the sea" one was absolutely epic. The feeling that you were actually underwater with the tropical fish was absolutely uncanny. And even among Omnimax I think the quality depends heavily upon age. I've been to the one in Cincinnati a few times as well as the one in Detroit, and the one in Detroit, comparatively, sucks. Though they did have reclining chairs which the Cinci one doesn't.

Do they show any "regular" films in the Omnimax where you are? The only films I've ever seen them showing were educational and documentary sort of stuff that I think was shot specifically for that venue.

Probably not. I do recall that they once advertised a "Rolling Stones" concert that was going to be shown there. One very impressive show I saw was titled "Ring Of Fire" which had some very stomach wrenching visual effects. I am speaking of the Omnimax in Chicago. I always visit the omnimax when I am visiting the museum of science and industry.
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post #44 of 80 Old 07-11-2011, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

I just thought this was a cool video and in no way am I trying to incite an argument with this video. I'm sure other peoples systems can do this as well.

I saw Avatar in an IMAX theater in 3D. I thought it was worth it, but most other theaters I do not. On a side not, I can do without 3D. Can't stand the glasses (I never wear glasses or sun glasses) and the 3D experience didn't do anything for me.

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post #45 of 80 Old 07-11-2011, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

I just thought this was a cool video and in no way am I trying to incite an argument with this video. I'm sure other peoples systems can do this as well.

http://www.imax.com/mobile/video/636748944001/

I am doing this from my phone so I hope this video works on computers as well

That would be harder to do with driver energy instead of port energy...... driver energy would be less focused, still would like to see it tried or done by someeone though.....
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post #46 of 80 Old 07-11-2011, 11:24 AM
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I've seen some features in 3D that were good and plenty I could have done without. In general, though, Dome IMAX / Omnimax >> 3D.

If I were The Gates, I'd put in a Dome IMAX at my house, and get someone to figure out how to project feature films on it. Actually it could be a profitable venture unless their monopoly on their material is contracted and not merely de facto. The Omnimax in Cinci runs well into the late evening and it appeared to me that people go to it just like going to the movies. I'd think they'd want big-name material, even if it were older. For example, Watchmen in Dome IMAX? Sign me up. Heck, even Despicable Me would have been fun in the dome.
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post #47 of 80 Old 07-11-2011, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Burrows View Post

I have a very modest DIY HT but I can feel my clothes move.

I took the family to see Transformers: Dark Side of the Moon at the Movie Theater.

I was expecting sensational bass F/X.
But I was sitting there thinking that the bass f/x were too tame??

The last time I went to the cineplex was when I had two bash amps from pe and now I have four bash amps from pe for the 12 inch subwoofers.

I kept thinking about how tame the bass f/x sounded at the movie theater??
I noticed the rest of the crowd looked ok with the bass sound levels but my kids mentioned that it sounded kinda low??

Next day at the business I fired up Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen and my kids mentioned that it sounded way louder than the movie theaters sound??

My question is do we just get used to our DIY bass f/x at 19 hertz and lower and then when we go to a Movie theater that maybe can do 35 hertz or thirty hertz do we then go ehhh? that sounds kinda wimpy at the movie theater??

Can anyone else chime in with the experiences they have had compareing DIY HT sound versus Movie Theater sound??

Thanks for reading this.

Purely depends on what YOUR local theater has to offer. Some of my local one both look and sound like crap. But there is 1 in my area that literally blows everything out of the water. Sound. Picture. Everything. So it really depends on what they have closer to you.
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post #48 of 80 Old 07-11-2011, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

Purely depends on what YOUR local theater has to offer. Some of my local one both look and sound like crap. But there is 1 in my area that literally blows everything out of the water. Sound. Picture. Everything. So it really depends on what they have closer to you.

We have MM Cinemas and Cinepolis

They sound ok?? to the soundbar/HTIB crowd but distintly lacking for the DIY crowd .

I suspect the main problem lays in most? cineplexes not being able to do 19 hz and lower.
HTIB systems do 40 hertz? so going to cineplexes that do 30 hertz sounds rad??

A lot of DIY systems do 19 hertz and lower then going to a cineplex that does 30 hertz sounds meh!!???

I suspect thats part of the reason that 3d was being pushed???

The only thing the cineplexes still have is big screens.

But then I just saw a Vivitek Qumi and I suspect that its going to lead the charge for HT big screens ??

DIY beats store purchased.
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post #49 of 80 Old 07-11-2011, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Burrows View Post

I suspect the main problem lays in most? cineplexes not being able to do 19 hz and lower.

I suspect thats part of the reason that 3d was being pushed???

The only thing the cineplexes still have is big screens.

I could give a crap if a theatre can "do" 19Hz (whatever THAT means). My HT can shake the floor on LFE passages but I would never, EVER choose to listen at the volume level that makes that happen. I don't even hang around when people run demos at volume levels that will result in hearing damage. Give me a larger screen and a more comfortable seat, thank you very much. Also, note to the cinema industry, stop making crap films.

As far as cinemas go, 3D is being pushed because the cinema industry always wants to stay ahead of TV. It's the same as when they went away from the native 4:3 aspect of 35mm film back in the day. As for the television 3D push... well television marketing people don't care if they undercut the cinema industry as long as they can sell more widgets (although somewhat surprising they have gotten content providers to sign on). The question now is how cinema will attempt to differentiate itself.
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post #50 of 80 Old 07-11-2011, 03:35 PM
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I have been told by many of my friends that my system is better than the movie theater and all i have is SVS pc12-NSD and SBS/SCS across the front and paradigms in the rear.....honestly not that impressive....but my friends swear that its better because it is clearer and the bass is more impactful....

Now I plan to build a horn sub in the future that wont go as low as the SVS but it will be louder and still reach 30hz

I am still debating doing a sealed sub at times but I am fascinated by tapped horn designs....

im rambling but needless to say...i dont think it take much to top your "average theater"

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post #51 of 80 Old 07-11-2011, 04:45 PM
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Below 30-40Hz in a small room, even modest setups beat 'average theaters'. Where theaters really do well is in midbass. With all the problems caused by 1/4 wave cancellations and room modes, some of the slam can be taken away in a small room unless set up properly with listening positions carefully chosen and absorption used on front and back walls, if necessary.

For example, the loudest single effect effect encoded in Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen is at 120Hz. In the theatre, this effect was easily palpable, and made everyone's insides rumble. In my room, I have a 1/4 wave cancellation at 120Hz for my center speaker (solid projection screen just above and behind it). It's as if the effect was barely there.....

On the plus side, in my room all of the sub-25Hz content in films moves my couch.....

JSS
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post #52 of 80 Old 07-11-2011, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aackthpt View Post

I could give a crap if a theatre can "do" 19Hz (whatever THAT means). My HT can shake the floor on LFE passages but I would never, EVER choose to listen at the volume level that makes that happen. I don't even hang around when people run demos at volume levels that will result in hearing damage. Give me a larger screen and a more comfortable seat, thank you very much. Also, note to the cinema industry, stop making crap films.

Most systems can't play under 20Hz and most cinemas can't even play down to 20Hz. It takes way too much power to achieve any respectable SPL under 20Hz for a venue as large as a cinema.

Can your HT do it cleanly though? What's your distortion levels?
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post #53 of 80 Old 07-11-2011, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aackthpt View Post

Also, note to the cinema industry, stop making crap films.

So true.

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post #54 of 80 Old 07-11-2011, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post

Most systems can't play under 20Hz and most cinemas can't even play down to 20Hz. It takes way too much power to achieve any respectable SPL under 20Hz for a venue as large as a cinema.

Can your HT do it cleanly though? What's your distortion levels?

Yep, two f-20's in my modestly sized theater and 2000 watts gets me close enough for my liking granted that is down to 20hz, not lower, but it makes me so happy, as a true transformers fan from the getgo, I wont even consider watching it until the 3d dvd arrives at my doorstep the rs40 oughta do it plenty of justice on my 110" screen while I drink my own cheap beer and listen at SQ levels that any movie theater in my small town cant even come CLOSE to!!!

I did the same for tron legacy 3d and couldn't have been happier watching with a bigger group than I could have brought to the theater, for cheaper (collectively, i bought the collectors set) and in the comfort of my own home!!! once a set of 4pi's and some JBL surrounds is in effect, i will be the best theater within 30 square miles unless Tom Hilton wants to show me up (I think he can)

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post #55 of 80 Old 07-11-2011, 08:37 PM
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EDIT: 8 sealed 15/18's sounds great to me at some point, but for my budget, i LOVE what I have and commend folks like lilMike for allowing me to, as a famous rapper once said "Ball on a budget"

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post #56 of 80 Old 07-13-2011, 01:18 PM
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[quote=notnyt;20679069]The IMAX theaters around here advertise 14,000 or 16,000 watts. One of my amps will do that, and I have four

Who says you can't put pro cinema gear in your HT either? =]

I have to see this picture EVERY DAY!.. Its a SHAME that my local Cinema does not have not even 1/8 part of what you have THERE!...

I wish to see Transformers 3 at your HOME! TOTALLY AWESOME!....

I have $1200 to spend in a new sub; and I dont have any skills or tools to work with wood. Im very interested in a Rythmik F15HP; but maybe DIYs is a better way to go IF you have any experience and tools to work with. Sadly, I have to spend on a ready-build sub. But your subs are really AWESOME and your equipment as well!!...
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post #57 of 80 Old 07-13-2011, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aackthpt View Post

I've seen some features in 3D that were good and plenty I could have done without. In general, though, Dome IMAX / Omnimax >> 3D.

If I were The Gates, I'd put in a Dome IMAX at my house, and get someone to figure out how to project feature films on it. Actually it could be a profitable venture unless their monopoly on their material is contracted and not merely de facto. The Omnimax in Cinci runs well into the late evening and it appeared to me that people go to it just like going to the movies. I'd think they'd want big-name material, even if it were older. For example, Watchmen in Dome IMAX? Sign me up. Heck, even Despicable Me would have been fun in the dome.

I go to the Omnimax in Cinci a couple of times a year. Saw Tornado Alley twice this year and got to check out the chase vehicles which was pretty cool. Omnimax is awesome. It could use a bit more bass though. .I don't think it goes much below 25hz.
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post #58 of 80 Old 07-13-2011, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

This is the inside of an IMAX subwoofer which houses 8-18's. Same amount of drivers as notny

Wow, I guess I'm better than IMAX then tee hee!

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #59 of 80 Old 07-13-2011, 05:39 PM
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What do u have?
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post #60 of 80 Old 07-13-2011, 06:09 PM
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right now I've got 6 x 18's and 2 x 21's with 2 more 18's getting built. All in a room 14' x 23' but open to the rest of the basement.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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