Howitzer build - Page 15 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #421 of 452 Old 12-17-2011, 02:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
exojam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 2,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Yeah that Dusty just made me think of someone like Stumpy from Rio Bravo. PI is much better.

James
exojam is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #422 of 452 Old 12-17-2011, 02:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
smokarz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hartford, CT USA
Posts: 3,237
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 62
HOLY COW!!!

Can I buy your finishing work?

No seriously, we need a manual on it.

smokarz is offline  
post #423 of 452 Old 12-17-2011, 02:54 PM
Member
 
lacrojx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NorthWest Fort Worth
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassingInterest View Post

Thank you, my friend.
I'm actually thinking about kicking Dusty to the curb, as I've gotten some strong feedback indicating a preference for PI.
It looks like Dusty will be a one-hit-wonder.
So, I'm glad he's building something as cool as Curt Campbell's Stentorians.

All the famous cool people do it...Prince was just Prince, then he was a smybol. Garth Brooks turned into Chris Gaines. Fact is PI, while you were having fun trying the waters as "Dusty", PI is good with us all I think. To think there are actually 2 people in that shop would really defeat me. I choose to think it is just one guy, some NICE tools and lots of thought and elbow grease going into your work!

A bigger hammer is only better until you hit your thumb with it.
lacrojx is offline  
post #424 of 452 Old 12-23-2011, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
PassingInterest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 1,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 24
lacrojx--Thanks for being supportive during the name-change experiment.


I meant to get a shot of this earlier, but I forgot until just now.
After I bored holes in the face-frame for the grill-guides, I inserted the Dowel Centers in those holes. A little masking tape made them fit more snugly, so they wouldn't drop out when I flipped it over. I then positioned the face-frame on the Howitzer and pressed down firmly, to mark the matching hole locations.



PassingInterest is offline  
post #425 of 452 Old 01-30-2012, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
PassingInterest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 1,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 24
I'm embarrassed to say that just before assembly in mid December, I discovered some veneer bubbles in the top of the second Howitzer.

I set it aside for a while.

Then I stripped the veneer off the top and beefed up my clamping cauls and got perfect, bubble-free veneering results. The second Howitzer cabinet was finished yesterday. I expect to get some REW graphs soon. Even with the subs not equalized, we watched Rise of the Planet of the Apes last night on blu-ray and the bass was...an experience.





PassingInterest is offline  
post #426 of 452 Old 01-30-2012, 08:01 AM
Advanced Member
 
goku14139268520's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wichita, Kansas
Posts: 585
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Those are just........wow. Very nice Job!
goku14139268520 is offline  
post #427 of 452 Old 01-30-2012, 08:26 AM
Member
 
johngalt47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
PI, do you have any acoustic issues with that hardwood floor?
johngalt47 is offline  
post #428 of 452 Old 01-30-2012, 08:54 AM
Member
 
RyguyOK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Posts: 181
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Beautiful. There is nothing more to say.
RyguyOK is offline  
post #429 of 452 Old 01-30-2012, 09:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
smokarz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hartford, CT USA
Posts: 3,237
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 62
and those that said DIYers can't achieve the look of high end (expensive) speakers, only need to take a look at this.

well done sir!
smokarz is offline  
post #430 of 452 Old 01-30-2012, 09:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
DS-21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,330
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

and those that said DIYers can't achieve the look of high end (expensive) speakers, only need to take a look at this.

In fairness, most of us (myself certainly included) cannot, due to a lack of skill/space/patience.

PI and a few others around here are exceptionally talented craftsmen, though.

--
"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait
Serious Audio Blog 
Multichannel music (and video) urban loft living room system 
DS-21 is offline  
post #431 of 452 Old 01-30-2012, 09:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 4,267
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 401
Superb! Very high end looking.

I'd be tempted to put the Howitzers in the corners where the L and R are, and move the L and R to where the Howitzers are...? Measurements will likely help you decide what's best, if you're open to moving things around.

Congratulations on completing such a fantastic build.
tuxedocivic is online now  
post #432 of 452 Old 01-30-2012, 10:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mjaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,462
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Wow is the best description for how High End your Howitzers look Dan.

You always have the most informative threads around.

Thanks for sharing.

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
mjaudio is offline  
post #433 of 452 Old 01-30-2012, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
PassingInterest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 1,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Thanks guys. I really appreciate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johngalt47 View Post

PI, do you have any acoustic issues with that hardwood floor?

I probably do have problems with the wood floor. I'll know more after I run REW. I do have a large rug farther back, but I'm not sure if that helps much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Superb! Very high end looking.

I'd be tempted to put the Howitzers in the corners where the L and R are, and move the L and R to where the Howitzers are...? Measurements will likely help you decide what's best, if you're open to moving things around.

Congratulations on completing such a fantastic build.

I actually tried it once, without equalizing, and the sound stage collapsed.
The problem I have is the distance to the Listening Position, which is 19 feet.
As they sit in the photos, the subs have 8 feet between them, so swapping them with the mains means I end up with a small sound stage.
Otherwise, it would be a great idea to do the swap, as you suggested.


PassingInterest is offline  
post #434 of 452 Old 01-30-2012, 12:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 4,267
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 401
Wow you're a ways back. Must give those mains a real work out from there
tuxedocivic is online now  
post #435 of 452 Old 01-30-2012, 01:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
smokarz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hartford, CT USA
Posts: 3,237
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 62
PI, for that distance you almost need to build some SEOS, DE250/EA speakers.

Which of course, I would really look forward to.
smokarz is offline  
post #436 of 452 Old 01-30-2012, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
PassingInterest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 1,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Wow you're a ways back. Must give those mains a real work out from there

Yes, but they haven't complained yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

PI, for that distance you almost need to build some SEOS, DE250/EA speakers.

Which of course, I would really look forward to.

Yeah, I think SEOS/DE250 Clone from Erich H is called for once they are available. Until then, I'll keep busy with other projects.
PassingInterest is offline  
post #437 of 452 Old 01-30-2012, 03:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BeerParty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 1,073
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
OK, any more complements and PI's head is going to get too big to fit through the door. We need to take him down a notch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PassingInterest View Post


Those curtains don't match your carpet.

Beautiful job PI, the finish on the Howitzers looks top notch. I'm looking forward to your REW graphs just to see what a PI 'bass experience' looks like.

Chris

"It hurts to admit when you make mistakes - but when they are big enough, the pain only lasts a second."
--Despair, Inc. "Regret"

My AviaTrix TM Build
BeerParty is offline  
post #438 of 452 Old 01-30-2012, 05:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
maxmercy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 116
PI,

Needless to say, I am a great fan of your work, and eagerly await your REW results.

I do have a suggestion....

SEOS or any other waveguide speaker will suffer just as much as those mains with a floor bounce on that floor.

Use the floor to your advantage. Ground-Plane CBT.

BTW, do you have a center channel in there somewhere?

1st set of CBTs of my own design should be done in the Spring. Ebony stain and maybe the Target Coatings lacquer polished well. I'll need your advice when I shoot that stuff. All I know is Nitro Lacquer, but I feel that once I use the supply I have left, I am done with that explosive stuff...

JSS
maxmercy is offline  
post #439 of 452 Old 01-30-2012, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
PassingInterest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 1,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Thanks guys. Chris, you're a funny guy!
Max, I could not bring myself to place the center channel speaker on the hearth, even on a stand, so I'm running without the center channel for now. I might change my mind later on it. We don't use the fireplace at all. So, you think CBT would be the better way to go for this room?

I'll try REW tomorrow.
PassingInterest is offline  
post #440 of 452 Old 01-30-2012, 07:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
maxmercy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 116
I do think that Groundplane CBT is a good solution for you, and you would be the right person to make them really beautiful.

Although waveguide designs will have pattern control down to around 800-1200Hz depending on the size of the waveguide and woofer combo, lower frequencies are still subject to wall, ground and ceiling bounce and the regular freq response notches that result.

The main ways people have corrected for this are carpeting with generous padding, drop ceilings and other absorption techniques.

The Groundplane CBT takes the 'disadvantage' of a reflective floor and turns it into acoustic gold. It nearly halves the control frequency of a freestanding CBT by using the floor itself. A 1 meter array can control vertical pattern down to 250Hz, below that, ceiling and wall treatments must be used.

But all of this is a thought experiment (and not a cheap one; CBTs are expensive in driver cost and shading scheme). If your mains make you happy, there is no need at all to replace them.

JSS
maxmercy is offline  
post #441 of 452 Old 01-30-2012, 09:16 PM
Senior Member
 
miahallen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: PNW
Posts: 260
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
WOW PI....I'm actually really glad you screwed up and had to redo these....without your bump today, I might have never had the chance to see your thread.

I just skimmed over the whole thing, mostly only reading your posts...the $10 paint gun review was a real treat!

Excellent work! Are you still planning to make the other 4?
miahallen is offline  
post #442 of 452 Old 01-31-2012, 03:59 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
PassingInterest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 1,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Maxmercy--Thanks for the compliment and thanks for the explanation.
I will follow your CBT build and development with interest.

miahallen--Thank you very much! I'm glad you enjoyed it. And yes, I will definitely build the remaining four Howitzers, but I might do some other projects in between.
PassingInterest is offline  
post #443 of 452 Old 02-01-2012, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
PassingInterest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 1,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Here is a REW shot of the two subs only (no Mains connected), without any equalization (Blue) and with FBQ equalization (Green).




I used REW to automatically calculate the filter info and send it to the FBQ2496 through an M-Audio MidiSport Uno. It only used one filter, at 39.9 Hz.




This has the same FBQ equalization, with (Blue) and without the Mains added in (Green).




This is FBQ vs. YPAO equalization built into the Yamaha RX-V2700 AV Receiver.




Here is a full sweep after YPAO. I guess my room is pretty bad.



All these were taken from the Listening Position.
PassingInterest is offline  
post #444 of 452 Old 02-02-2012, 04:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
maxmercy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 116
PI,

Those dips from 100-200Hz are due to 1/4 wavelength cancellations, likely from front wall reflections. If your speakers are between 15-30 inches from the front wall, you will get dips in the 100-200Hz region, unless you use absorption. All freestanding speakers suffer from this. Also the back wall matters, if your head is between 15-30 inches from the back wall, same thing.

This room is not bad at all. You can make it better, though. If you get crafty, you can camouflage some absorptive panels as 'art' if you have access to a large printer/plotter and some fabric, or you can use burlap and spray it yourself with something...

That's if you are not happy. Looks like you get pretty good extension, better than we had originally thought.....If you are gonna make a few more of these beauties, you will have enough, IMO. Any chance you can do some distortion tests?

I have suckouts areound the same freq range, due to my screen being 1/2" MDF. Mistake. I will rebuild it (if I ever get time) with blackout cloth and put fiberglass behind it to treat those midbass suckouts.....

JSS
maxmercy is offline  
post #445 of 452 Old 02-02-2012, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
PassingInterest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 1,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Max--I wouldn't mind trying some distortion tests. Today, I have spent some time with the FBQ to better familiarize myself with it. I wouldn't mind improving the sound in this room, but there are WAF limitations involved, since this is our living room. It would be interesting to experiment sometime with room treatments, but it will have to wait for the time being.
PassingInterest is offline  
post #446 of 452 Old 02-02-2012, 04:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
maxmercy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 116
Totally understand. Everyone puts up with 1/4 wave suckouts unless they really do some treatment. One day I'll know what sound is like without those suckouts, I bet music and movies will have lots more midbass 'kick and punch'...just like my outdoor party speaker has....

JSS
maxmercy is offline  
post #447 of 452 Old 02-02-2012, 06:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mjaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,462
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 30
You know what's odd about the graphs is that REW calculated a cut at 39.9 but left the peak at about 27hz.

All in all it doesn't look that bad though, just a few tweaks and it will look pretty good.

Are you adding any boost down low Dan? If not then that's pretty decent response down to 23hz just raw. I would have guessed in the mid 30's in that size room without boost or corner placement.

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
mjaudio is offline  
post #448 of 452 Old 02-02-2012, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
PassingInterest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 1,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

You know what's odd about the graphs is that REW calculated a cut at 39.9 but left the peak at about 27hz.

I re-ran everything today and I got very different results. Sorry, but I didn't save any graphs. I'll get some tomorrow. I think I had the level set either a little too high or too low and REW got confused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

Are you adding any boost down low Dan?

Surprisingly, no. I reset the AV receiver's built-in PEQ to flat for the sub, then ran REW and sent the one single filter it calculated to the FBQ. I later reset the FBQ to flat (no filters) and ran the receiver's equalization routine.
I wouldn't have thought I would get much room gain either, since neither sub is in a corner and it is a large, open room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

If not then that's pretty decent response down to 23hz just raw. I would have guessed in the mid 30's in that size room without boost or corner placement.

I have no explanation for it.
PassingInterest is offline  
post #449 of 452 Old 02-02-2012, 10:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mjaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,462
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassingInterest View Post

I have no explanation for it.

I have an explanation for it, you made some killer subs

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
mjaudio is offline  
post #450 of 452 Old 02-03-2012, 01:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
Avus_M3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Nor^Cal
Posts: 580
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Wow...AMAZING attention to detail there. They look beautiful! I haven't posted or even really been on the forums at all in like 2-3 years but I HAD to comment this build!

-The Dave
----Check my QUAD 18" Fi IB Build Thread!! (DONE) King of the 400 lb Gorilla
Avus_M3 is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off