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post #1 of 15 Old 08-08-2011, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm seriously considering building the 4Pi speaker with JBL2226H and B&C DE250. I'm currently debating on purchasing the crossover complete from Pi or building it myself. I have the plans, but it doesn't give specific part numbers or details on the coils, capacitors or resistors. I don't want to do any guessing. Id like to tally up the cost of sourcing the parts myself from PE and weigh the benefits.

I recall a post here where someone listed the bill of materials for the crossover, but I cant find it for the life of me . Could you guys help me with the BOM for the crossover? The only upgrade I'll do is the 15 gauge coils. Thanks in advance.

Cheers!
Joel
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post #2 of 15 Old 08-08-2011, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxjr View Post

I have the plans

If you post that, or the component values (different than part numbers), myself and many other can show you which parts you needs. Be aware though, the same component value can range in price depending on brand and type. For instance:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...Number=027-698

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=027-580

Or even electrolytics would be less than a buck. So, depends what you want. Personally, I cheap out.
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post #3 of 15 Old 08-08-2011, 04:30 PM
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You should be able to buy everything from Parts Express. For the caps, I'd go with Solen, Jantzen or Dayton caps. They are good quality value caps. I've never dabbled in fancy caps, but the price skyrockets quickly like in Tux's example.

You will need 3 20uf caps per speaker so about $24-36. You will
Caps-
3 20uf @ $6ea - $18 total - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=027-436
6.8uf - ~$3 - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=027-424
.47uf ~ $1.50 - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=027-206

Inductors-
1.5mh - ~$21 - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...=255-426&DID=7
1.0mh - ~$17 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...=255-422&DID=7
.5mh - ~$11 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...=255-408&DID=7

Resistors-
You need 8 $1.25 resistors. Pick them from here: http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...-resistors.cfm
For the 8ohm 100w resistor, you can us five 40ohm 20w resistors ($.80ea) wired in parallel.

By my math, it is about $90 per speaker with 15ga inductors and Dayton poly caps.

Wayne charges $145 for built crossovers on PCBs with 15ga inductors. He probably uses the same parts I spec'd. His PCBs are $25. So he charges $~30 to assemble. You can make the call if the PCB and his assembly are worth the money.
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post #4 of 15 Old 08-08-2011, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, thank you so much coctostan! I was just about to respond with all the inductor, resistor, and capacitor values and you beat me to it. And, saved me Time from typing it all up. I'll have to think about it, but am leaning towards just having Wayne build them as I've never built a crossover before (I'm a mechanical engineer, and not electrical) and love how professional his work looks. I'd also like to show support to him in his Designs and help to our community.

I'm guessing you own a set of 4Pi's? If so, how are you enjoying them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post
You should be able to buy everything from Parts Express. For the caps, I'd go with Solen, Jantzen or Dayton caps. They are good quality value caps. I've never dabbled in fancy caps, but the price skyrockets quickly like in Tux's example.

You will need 3 20uf caps per speaker so about $24-36. You will
Caps-
3 20uf @ $6ea - $18 total - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=027-436
6.8uf - ~$3 - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=027-424
.47uf ~ $1.50 - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=027-206

Inductors-
1.5mh - ~$21 - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...=255-426&DID=7
1.0mh - ~$17 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...=255-422&DID=7
.5mh - ~$11 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...=255-408&DID=7

Resistors-
You need 8 $1.25 resistors. Pick them from here: http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...-resistors.cfm
For the 8ohm 100w resistor, you can us five 40ohm 20w resistors ($.80ea) wired in parallel.

By my math, it is about $90 per speaker with 15ga inductors and Dayton poly caps.

Wayne charges $145 for built crossovers on PCBs with 15ga inductors. He probably uses the same parts I spec'd. His PCBs are $25. So he charges $~30 to assemble. You can make the call if the PCB and his assembly are worth the money.
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post #5 of 15 Old 08-08-2011, 05:12 PM
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When i am ready to build the 4pi, i will source everything from wayne. He doesn't make that much profit from his kit.
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post #6 of 15 Old 08-09-2011, 05:12 AM
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Maxjr, I don't own them. I consider it a while back, but rolled my own using Wayne's as inspiration. I agree, his crossovers are a good deal. Upgrading to 15ga inductors is all I would do. Having them on PCBs is nice too. If you need to replace a component in the future or feel like upgrading, it will be very easy to do.
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post #7 of 15 Old 08-09-2011, 05:23 AM
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Nichol1997 put this together it is for the upgraded everything model. Assumes you are building 3, Prices may be out of date.

Quantity Price Cost Part Description Link
3 20.54 61.62 L2 is 1.5 mH http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=255-426
3 11.09 33.27 L3 is 0.5 mH (Jantzen 0.47mH will work per Wayne http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=255-408
9 13.64 122.76 C5 is 20uF (Jantzen 22uF will work per Wayne): http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=027-286
3 14.25 42.75 R3 is 8 ohms 100 watt non inductive http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=019-020
3 5.12 15.36 C2 is 6.8uF http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...027-278&ctab=1
3 11.1 33.3 C1 is 0.47uF http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=027-468
3 16.38 49.14 L1 is 1.0 mH http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=255-422
6 4.25 25.5 R1a, R1c 20 ohm http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...tnumber=005-20
6 4.25 25.5 R1b, R1d 30 ohm http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...tnumber=005-30
12 3.95 47.4 R2a, R2b, R2c, R2d 16 ohm, 10 watt non-inductive resistors (15 ohm Mills 12 watt are used per Wayne) http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...tnumber=005-15

Total 456.6
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post #8 of 15 Old 08-09-2011, 05:54 AM
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At that price wouldn't having the MiniDSP (2 x $199) make a little sense??

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post #9 of 15 Old 08-09-2011, 06:26 AM
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Not if you want a plug and play solution. It is however another alternative.
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post #10 of 15 Old 08-09-2011, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

At that price wouldn't having the MiniDSP (2 x $199) make a little sense??

A lot of DIYers wouldn't know what to do with it. And you need multiple amps and extra wiring.

I agree though, it's what I'd do. XO components have gotten pricey and unless it's a high XO with few components, it's no longer feasable considering how cheap electronic dsp is.
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post #11 of 15 Old 08-09-2011, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

At that price wouldn't having the MiniDSP (2 x $199) make a little sense??

Plus 3-6 channels of amplification depending on what you are already using. A high efficiency design like the 4Pi can work fine on any decent receiver. Even a 2-channel T-amp from PE will cost about $100. So add on $300.

I like active, but I don't think you can make a value case when comparing it to an established design. The value with active is the ability repurpose the box if you plan to try different designs or drivers. It also allows for very quick prototyping and tweaking. Someone considering an existing design is probably not in this camp.

I'd also like to audition back-to-back whether there is any audible difference between the $90 crossover and the $150 upgraded version.
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post #12 of 15 Old 08-09-2011, 11:50 AM
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Honestly, I was just surprised at the XO price tag. At that point the extra value a DSP adds could make for a great decision.

I also assume everyone has about 20 extra channels of amplification lying around

btw, I disagree with people not knowing what to do...load the software, change some things and have fun learning what drivers/XOs/ etc actually sound like. If anything people will learn a heck of a lot more from a weekend playing with filters, EQing, etc then they would reading books or threads online for a year

Quote:


Someone considering an existing design is probably not in this camp

Except me, I will never build or buy a passive XO again.

I do undertand the POV and there is no reason to debate passive vs active here.

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post #13 of 15 Old 08-09-2011, 11:55 AM
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also, part of the design of the passive 4 pi cross is to minimize insertion loss, which is not a problem with active crosses.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #14 of 15 Old 08-11-2011, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. And thank you BigMouthinDC. This is super helpful info. BighmouthinDC, your build thread at audio roundtable is my inspiration and guide.
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post #15 of 15 Old 12-11-2013, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Nichol1997 put this together it is for the upgraded everything model. Assumes you are building 3, Prices may be out of date.

Quantity Price Cost Part Description Link
3 20.54 61.62 L2 is 1.5 mH http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=255-426
3 11.09 33.27 L3 is 0.5 mH (Jantzen 0.47mH will work per Wayne http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=255-408
9 13.64 122.76 C5 is 20uF (Jantzen 22uF will work per Wayne): http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=027-286
3 14.25 42.75 R3 is 8 ohms 100 watt non inductive http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=019-020
3 5.12 15.36 C2 is 6.8uF http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...027-278&ctab=1
3 11.1 33.3 C1 is 0.47uF http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=027-468
3 16.38 49.14 L1 is 1.0 mH http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=255-422
6 4.25 25.5 R1a, R1c 20 ohm http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...tnumber=005-20
6 4.25 25.5 R1b, R1d 30 ohm http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...tnumber=005-30
12 3.95 47.4 R2a, R2b, R2c, R2d 16 ohm, 10 watt non-inductive resistors (15 ohm Mills 12 watt are used per Wayne) http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...tnumber=005-15

Total 456.6

If this is the 'upgraded everything' model, do you need the C1?  If reading it correctly, would be omitted if using the upgraded tweeter.  Perhaps I am mistaken.  And maybe no one looks at this 2 yr old post, lol.

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