Budget Eminence Coaxial surround build!!! - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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DIY Speakers and Subs > Budget Eminence Coaxial surround build!!!
Martycool007's Avatar Martycool007 02:37 PM 01-22-2014
To me it would not seem worth it to spend $400 to $500 on each main speaker then spend $700 each on the surrounds. Don't get me wrong, I am sure the Beyma coax surrounds are great! It's just that if you have $1,400 to spend on the surround channels, to me it would make more sense to put that money towards a better LCR, either by using the AE TD drivers or going with a Seos-15 or Seos-18 with a better compression driver in leu of the Beyma surrounds, and just use the V10's or V8's for surround duties.

beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio 02:50 PM 01-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

To me it would not seem worth it to spend $400 to $500 on each main speaker then spend $700 each on the surrounds. Don't get me wrong, I am sure the Beyma coax surrounds are great! It's just that if you have $1,400 to spend on the surround channels, to me it would make more sense to put that money towards a better LCR, either by using the AE TD drivers or going with a Seos-15 or Seos-18 with a better compression driver in leu of the Beyma surrounds, and just use the V10's or V8's for surround duties.

I would beg to differ. Yes the AE is a great upgrade, but for just a slightly larger horn? Not sure about that one.
lemans24's Avatar lemans24 03:47 PM 01-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

To me it would not seem worth it to spend $400 to $500 on each main speaker then spend $700 each on the surrounds. Don't get me wrong, I am sure the Beyma coax surrounds are great! It's just that if you have $1,400 to spend on the surround channels, to me it would make more sense to put that money towards a better LCR, either by using the AE TD drivers or going with a Seos-15 or Seos-18 with a better compression driver in leu of the Beyma surrounds, and just use the V10's or V8's for surround duties.

I really think that there would be a major sound quality difference between the eminence coax as compared to the beyma coax.

What i am looking for is a smallish surround speaker that has a wide dispersion pattern that will keep up with a fusion-15 sentinel based LCR (120db plus dynamic range). I am sure the eminence would be ok but since I want the best sound quality that I can afford, I see value in getting the Beyma as a surround speaker, if offered in kit form. To me, the reason I am interested in EricH DIY kits is not just because of the price, but rather the price of something I would buy commercially to get the same performance. What small surround speaker can I get commercially for less than a $1000 each can keep up with the dynamic range/sound quality of 120db plus LCR like the fusion-15 Sentinels?? That's what I am comparing, not how cheap I can get some surrounds...


Erich H's Avatar Erich H 05:10 PM 01-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemans24 View Post

I really think that there would be a major sound quality difference between the eminence coax as compared to the beyma coax.
What i am looking for is a smallish surround speaker that has a wide dispersion pattern that will keep up with a fusion-15 sentinel based LCR (120db plus dynamic range). I am sure the eminence would be ok but since I want the best sound quality that I can afford, I see value in getting the Beyma as a surround speaker, if offered in kit form. To me, the reason I am interested in EricH DIY kits is not just because of the price, but rather the price of something I would buy commercially to get the same performance. What small surround speaker can I get commercially for less than a $1000 each can keep up with the dynamic range/sound quality of 120db plus LCR like the fusion-15 Sentinels?? That's what I am comparing, not how cheap I can get some surrounds...


Eminence coaxials have been used in some really expensive commercial speakers.

Especially when being used for surrounds, I really don't think you'll see a 'major sound quality difference'. If I recall, I think MTG90 said they would either come extremely close, or hit 120db. I can't see anyone maxing them out for surrounds.
JohnDean's Avatar JohnDean 05:10 PM 01-22-2014
Are you trying to say the volt coaxes won't keep up with the tempest? From what I understand they will. I don't really care either way. I have the ability to build any of these baffles and cabs.

I'm still not convinced the beyma would be a big enough seller to warrant the time Erich would have to invest for it.
Erich H's Avatar Erich H 05:16 PM 01-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDean View Post

I'm still not convinced the beyma would be a big enough seller to warrant the time Erich would have to invest for it.

I'd still do it though. The box will likely match something I have or have coming, so it would be a baffle change.

The current Volts would fall into the Fusion line.
Sibuna's Avatar Sibuna 05:23 PM 01-22-2014
the volt 8 will definitely keep up with the tempests
raynist's Avatar raynist 05:44 PM 01-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

the volt 8 will definitely keep up with the tempests

Did you do the resister/crossover change?
Sibuna's Avatar Sibuna 05:49 PM 01-22-2014
yes,
lemans24's Avatar lemans24 05:56 PM 01-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDean View Post

Are you trying to say the volt coaxes won't keep up with the tempest? From what I understand they will. I don't really care either way. I have the ability to build any of these baffles and cabs.

I'm still not convinced the beyma would be a big enough seller to warrant the time Erich would have to invest for it.
No, not at all...I am pretty sure all of the pro speakers 8" and up will be able to keep up with max dynamic range of tempest/sentinel.
If I just wanted dynamic range then I would just have all speakers the same as my LCR.
I need to convinced that I can get the same sound quality in a more dispersed sound pattern as whatever LCR I choose.
Since I will be building my surround speakers first, I don't want to second guess my choice, IF the beyma is offered in kit form.
EricH does have an Alpha line too, which is where I would expect the Beyma speaker to go.
Does this not make sense?? Keep the eminence but add the beyma too for people who are delusional like me in wanting all out performance
at the cheapest price possible compared to Comercial speakers, not other DIY kits.
As an example, I want a fantastic 5.1 system for my living room as my basement is unfinished and will remain so until I make some big bucks!!
But...the comercial example is a JTR system with three 228 LCR and two S8 surrounds would cost approx $5400!!!
You do math even with the Beyma kit offered over $500, I would be hard pressed Not to match the same performance for under half that amount with the most expensive kits currently offered thru EricH's company...food for thought
Erich H's Avatar Erich H 05:59 PM 01-22-2014
Lemans24, what numbers are you using to compare your dispersed sound patterns between models? I'm just curious.
lemans24's Avatar lemans24 06:11 PM 01-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Lemans24, what numbers are you using to compare your dispersed sound patterns between models? I'm just curious.
I think the Beyma is 70 x 70 which allows me to place it almost anywhere as a surround while I maybe more restricted
with the fusion-8/alpha-8...don't know but I feel going with a coax for surround would be better technically
Erich H's Avatar Erich H 06:14 PM 01-22-2014
I thought you were comparing dispersion angles between the 2 coaxial models and wasn't sure what numbers you were using.
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 06:37 PM 01-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemans24 View Post

No, not at all...I am pretty sure all of the pro speakers 8" and up will be able to keep up with max dynamic range of tempest/sentinel.
If I just wanted dynamic range then I would just have all speakers the same as my LCR.
I need to convinced that I can get the same sound quality in a more dispersed sound pattern as whatever LCR I choose.
Since I will be building my surround speakers first, I don't want to second guess my choice, IF the beyma is offered in kit form.
EricH does have an Alpha line too, which is where I would expect the Beyma speaker to go.
Does this not make sense?? Keep the eminence but add the beyma too for people who are delusional like me in wanting all out performance
at the cheapest price possible compared to Comercial speakers, not other DIY kits.
As an example, I want a fantastic 5.1 system for my living room as my basement is unfinished and will remain so until I make some big bucks!!
But...the comercial example is a JTR system with three 228 LCR and two S8 surrounds would cost approx $5400!!!
You do math even with the Beyma kit offered over $500, I would be hard pressed Not to match the same performance for under half that amount with the most expensive kits currently offered thru EricH's company...food for thought

I'm going to build two pairs of surrounds using the Beyma driver that Brandon used. I'm just waiting for his custom crossovers to be finished plus it'll happen after I finish my sub build with four UXL-18's.
raynist's Avatar raynist 06:51 PM 01-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

yes,

Did it make much of a difference?
Sibuna's Avatar Sibuna 06:53 AM 01-23-2014
yes and no, it simply brought them up a bit, however they didnt sound bad before, and it was only noticable when directly compairing them to other coaxials. I prob could have done the same thing bu raising the treb up a cpl clicks on the AVR. and honestly if you were using these as rears im not sure you would ever notice the difference. as mains its a little more in your face
JohnDean's Avatar JohnDean 11:37 AM 01-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I'd still do it though. The box will likely match something I have or have coming, so it would be a baffle change.

The current Volts would fall into the Fusion line.


We already know you're a limitless madman. :-D

The Beyma 8cx300nd is 70 degrees. I'm not sure what the Eminence Beta-8CX is but the 8cxn51 is 100 degrees.

I plan to order the Beyma as long as nothing crazy happens with the custom crossover. I want to try them for Heights and surrounds in a s8 style slot ported enclosure.
mhutchins's Avatar mhutchins 08:15 PM 01-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDean View Post

I want to try them for Heights and surrounds in a s8 style slot ported enclosure.

Just curious, why not just cross them over higher to your sub and keep the headroom for the higher freqs where directionality matters more?? You could then run a smaller enclosure and have a simpler build, as well.
JohnDean's Avatar JohnDean 08:55 PM 01-23-2014
I'm not sure I understand your question. I wasn't suggesting the enclosure would be large. I'm just really digging the shape and port on the top of the slanted 8. Internal dimensions and tuning would be appropriate for the Beyma.

Is that what you were asking?
Martycool007's Avatar Martycool007 05:07 AM 01-24-2014
So with regards to the V8 & V10 models, will there be a flat pack offered or perhaps a baffle that has a nice slant already mitered into it? I would love to build some V8 surrounds with an angled down front baffle.
raynist's Avatar raynist 05:21 PM 01-26-2014
What would be a good grill to use for the V-8?

My daughter has friends over often for movies and don't trust that they will not touch the woofers.

Saw some metal grid type grills on parts express but not sure if that would have an effect on sound.
Mrkazador's Avatar Mrkazador 05:57 PM 01-26-2014

The Waffle style metal grill would probably affect high frequencies, not sure about mesh. Partsexpress has grill kits to make your own frame that you can wrap with cloth. 


fperra's Avatar fperra 03:04 PM 01-30-2014
Any more progress on the Beyma coax build/experiment?
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio 04:48 PM 01-30-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by fperra View Post

Any more progress on the Beyma coax build/experiment?

Running them currently as rear surrounds. Haven't really gotten to run some quality clips yet so no comment further than what I posted WRT the get together at Andrew's place. Once the SB party has come and gone, I will be sending one Matt's way to start work on the custom XO stuff
fperra's Avatar fperra 10:51 PM 01-30-2014
Great. I have two coming my way next Tuesday. I'll start of with the Beyma xover, but can't wait for the custom one. I'll be using them for my side speakers; Alpha-8 Minions in the rear.
Erich H's Avatar Erich H 07:33 PM 02-01-2014
Today's project: Surround sound flat pack.

Here are some photos of a surround sound angled box. This is a prototype with the top about 9.75" deep, the bottom is 6" deep, and it's 14" wide. 3/4" MDF and very easy to assemble. I believe it's roughly a 16 degree angle. It could be made with .5" Baltic birch with a 3/4" baffle to save weight. But doing that might require a brace which is getting pretty tight.

I do need some input on the way the front baffle works out.




Here's the side view with the baffle on:




I only had a 1/2" roundover bit in my router, but it still looks okay on the top:




But because of the angle, the bottom looks a little 'off'. I think it might look just fine if it had used a full 3/4" roundover instead of the smaller one.






Even if that roundover doesn't match up 100% right, it still looks pretty good and you can't tell from the bottom, only the side. The other option (if the 3/4" bit doesn't work) would be to skip the roundover on the bottom, but then they'd have to miter it to make it perfectly flat on the bottom. Basically to miter the correct angle where the red line is in this photo:



If it's mitered flat on the bottom, maybe it should be done on the top as well? I like the roundover on the top and sides, so maybe a bigger roundover will fix the issue along the bottom edge. No clue right now, but it should work. Somehow I forgot to take photos of the front. rolleyes.gif
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 07:37 PM 02-01-2014
Erich, is this box for the 8" B&C drivers? This looks exactly what I'm looking for!
Erich H's Avatar Erich H 08:24 PM 02-01-2014
It was originally designed for the V-8 and V-10, but it could be made for any other coaxial. I'm not sure what the needed volume would be for other models.
raynist's Avatar raynist 08:47 PM 02-01-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

It was originally designed for the V-8 and V-10, but it could be made for any other coaxial. I'm not sure what the needed volume would be for other models.

I'm very interested in this box!

Would it be ported or sealed?
PGT FTW's Avatar PGT FTW 09:09 PM 02-01-2014
you could easily hit that with a belt sander and bring it flush. might be the simplest way...
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