My custom Funk Audio (Funky Waves) DBD12 Subwoofers - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 79 Old 08-15-2011, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
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This thread is dedicated to the build of my custom subs being made by Nathan of Funk Audio (formerly Funky Waves). I'll update the first post with all new updates.

Both cabinets are passive and will use dual Peerless XLS 12" drivers firing forward. The dimensions are H26" x L14" x W14". They will be powered by a Behringer EP4000.

Here are some pics of the unfinished cabinets:

Both cabinets stacked



Front and internal bracing



Rear of cabinet



Primed and ready for finishing:



First finish, which Nathan wasn't happy with, so he's going to spray again. The man has high standards, which is great for his customers:



Here's one of the completed subs:



I think it looks incredible! Yes, I realize the monster LMS 5400 makes my sub look wimpy.

Nathan said he's doing measurements and testing on them before shipping them out.

Here are the frequency sweeps he took from 90db to 105db. Looks really good to me! His room is 7000 cu ft, the subs were 1m from each corner and 4m apart with the mic 11' away. These are the subs only with a 90hz lowpass filter.



Looks like they're +/- 3db from 20hz-80hz in his room.

He also took one sweep with the mic between the subs so they are each 2m apart.



Can't wait to see how much gain I'll get from having them 7' apart in an open apartment less than half the size of his room.

I'm really looking forward to these bad boys, which will be acting as stands for my 2010 JTR Triple 888's with rubber mats acting as isolators.

Please feel free to ask any questions. If I don't have the answer, I'm sure Nathan will chyme in.

The subs arrived yesterday and man are they gorgeous! I'm still letting them warm up before doing any serious listening, but so far, they sound fantastic. Here are some pictures of the unpacking process that I took with my Blackberry. Please excuse the quality...

The delivery



The EP4000



Subs needing unpacking



Double boxed



Great packing protection











Freedom!





Rears with speakon inputs, which I think are fantastic!



And my humble, temporary setup



I'll write a review as by the end of the week.

David Budo
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post #2 of 79 Old 08-15-2011, 06:40 AM
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Looking good so far! Also looks like you have a nice box in the background of pic #1.


dbl

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post #3 of 79 Old 08-15-2011, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks dbl.

That's not my place. That's Nathan's place. He's building the cabinets and was nice enough to send me a few pics of the cabinets acclimatizing before he paints them.

That cabinet does look nice. Nathan does excellent work, from what I've seen.

We had initially started with single 15" subs, but changed after the 15" driver market wasn't producing anything I'd be happy with. I really wanted to use the AE AV15, but the wait is just too long! I think the dual 12's should deliver some solid performance.

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post #4 of 79 Old 08-15-2011, 10:06 AM
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Nice, shame about the AV's, love the way they sound. I thought John was shipping once again but I guess not?

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

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post #5 of 79 Old 08-15-2011, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks pbc.

Nathan tried contacting him a number of times with no response and then he heard the wait times were still long. If he's shipping now, that's a shame, but I'm excited about having four twelve inch drivers delivering bass from seven feet away. I'm not too concerned with much below 20hz, since I live in an apartment. I wanted to focus on 20-80hz with drivers that could handle the 24db/octave low pass filter my processor applies. I love tight midbass and can deal with solid 20hz output being the limit for now. Once we move and I put together my dedicated theater, I'm going all out to get at least solid 10hz reference level output.

David Budo
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post #6 of 79 Old 08-15-2011, 03:34 PM
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The XLS is an underappreciated woofer these days. Don't know why. Maybe it doesn't have gaudy enough numbers. It just works.

However, you should consider putting them somewhere else in the room. Subs colocated with mains do nothing to address room mode issues.

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post #7 of 79 Old 08-15-2011, 04:37 PM
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which model xls driver will you be using?

they have a really good rep for sound quality even if not max displacement for the $$$ performers.

routing bracing is a waste, but it sures looks pretty. ;-)

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post #8 of 79 Old 08-15-2011, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I think the same DS-21 with regards to the Peerless XLS 12". Trust me, the last thing I want to do is put these guys under my speakers, but my apartment is extremely limited on locations for these guys. I'm hoping to not have more than 5db swings across the 2 octaves I'm using these for. My Anthem AVM20 allows me to cut a peak with a selectable bandwidth and level. This makes me very happy, but if I need to buy a DCX down the road, I will. This is a temporary setup until we buy our own house. Then the fun starts.

LTD02,
I believe it's the 830500, but I may be wrong. Is that the newest model? It has an fs of 18.1hz, if I'm correct.

Yeah, I've seen incredible performance and builds using dowels and window style bracing, but I appreciate the quality and detail Nathan puts into his work.

Do you guys think I'll get 110db at 20hz from these guys at 2m away?

David Budo
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post #9 of 79 Old 08-15-2011, 06:00 PM
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Must be this one here

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...ource=googleps

Did you consider the LMS R 12? I sure it was cost prohibitive at almost 2x the price per cab. No doubt, I'm sure Nathan designed and selected according to your wants.

You'll rarely hear anyone say, "I wish I'd gotten less Sub."

$ubwoofer$ and premium mango tree cultivar$

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post #10 of 79 Old 08-15-2011, 07:21 PM
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"Do you guys think I'll get 110db at 20hz from these guys at 2m away?"

depends on your room. for an average enclosed room, yes. for an open floorplan, maybe.

there is only so much that you can do based on driver specs. for 20hz, you are looking mostly at displacement and the 12" with 12.5 mm isn't the biggest dog in the pound.

the sound quality of those drives should make up for any spl deficit though.

on another note, that drive makes for a nice tapped horn, but it requires about 10 cubes per horn.

max spl at 25hz 1 driver at 150 watts:

sealed...2 cubes...98 db
ported (22hz) tuning...2.5 cubes not including port...105 db
tapped horn...10 cubes...115 db

so if you have the space and the inclination, go big. if not, go small. you can always experiment too. :-)

btw, if you want to sacrifice the sub 20hz stuff, a tall narrow tapped horn with one fold could stand in a very small footprint and provide lots of sensivity and would be an easy build.

there are tons of options. whatever makes you happy is the best one.

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post #11 of 79 Old 08-15-2011, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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TnTBigman,

I did, but I was more concerned with being clean past 80hz, which from my understanding, the LMS R isn't as good at. Cost was the other issue, yes.

LTD02,
It is an open floorplan, but the positive I have going for me, which most others don't in an apartment, is the walls are all made of concrete. This should help me a bit. I knew I could easily get this from a ported design, but I really wanted to try out a sealed sub for myself. Midbass slam means more to me in my current living space than deep ULF. I really have to try using WINISD to see what potrential different designs have.

David Budo
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post #12 of 79 Old 08-15-2011, 08:16 PM
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"the walls are all made of concrete."

that is a blessing for at least two reasons, 1) you can crank it louder overall without disturbing the peeps, and 2) as you rightly point out, you get boundary reinforcement.

your happiness probably lies in getting them eq'd right and properly phased with your mains. sounds like you spec'd enough gear.

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post #13 of 79 Old 08-15-2011, 08:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Definitely a blessing in the sound containment.

One question about using something like DCX - My computer has an audio card with 5.1 3.5mm outputs. Do I need a different external audio card to run something like DCX?

David Budo
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post #14 of 79 Old 08-15-2011, 09:36 PM
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there are 3.5 mm to rca adapters, you just have to be careful about the levels. you don't want to send any clipped signals to your gear. not sure what you have there, but while visiting a family member, i was running 3.5mm to rca left and right channel to the receiver via an adapter and svga (or whatever it is now) to component via adapter to a projector. it worked great until one movie looked a little odd green, then we discovered the red component video input shook loose!

there are a ton of options:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&b...og&sa=N&tab=wi

i'd think that you could upconvert from 3.5 to rca then rca to xlr with two adapters. i haven't looked into 3.5 to xlr, but they probably exist. you just need enough signal to make it work and again make sure you aren't clipping out of your computer as that will ruin everything.

edit:

http://www.google.com/search?um=1&hl...0l0l0l0l0ll0l0

looks like there are 3.5 mm to xlr cables.

just make sure that you get the right kind. i was running simple stereo output off a single 3.5 to left and right rca. you may have single 3.5 to single xlr needs, just make sure you get the right cable.

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post #15 of 79 Old 08-17-2011, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting... Are there any issues with enough voltage being supplied by the pc for a good calibrated mic?

I confirmed with Nathan that the drivers are the 830500 model. He also said the may be ready for finishing next week. That's great news to me!

David Budo
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post #16 of 79 Old 08-17-2011, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

routing bracing is a waste, but it sures looks pretty. ;-)

True, it's a waste for a hack like you or me to use in a build but for someone who cares about their work looking 'professional' it's far from a waste. Not to mention, it probably saved him time (and money) to just make two inner baffles and use one as a brace than it would be fashioning something else up that meets his professional criteria.

I think the build looks on par with all the other amazing work he does.
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post #17 of 79 Old 08-17-2011, 06:00 PM
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To be honest the main reason I roundover the bracing edges(which takes about 3sec, one router is dedicated to roundovers, and is always setup and handy). Is because I do not like scraping the back of my hand on sharp splintery wood edges while hooking up wires, installing foam/stuffing etc.

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post #18 of 79 Old 08-17-2011, 06:16 PM
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"To be honest the main reason I roundover the bracing edges...Is because I do not like scraping the back of my hand on sharp splintery wood edges while hooking up wires..."

i hadn't considered that...

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post #19 of 79 Old 08-18-2011, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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That's as good a reason as any, Nathan.

Back to this microphone deal... Would I need a mic preamp to boost the voltage to the mic, or is the voltage through the pc enough? I'm guessing the former, but I don't have that much experience with this.

David Budo
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post #20 of 79 Old 08-18-2011, 07:41 AM
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Quote:


Is because I do not like scraping the back of my hand on sharp splintery wood edges while hooking up wires, installing foam/stuffing etc.

Lol, great point, I know that too well . Of course you could use round dowels

But when someone unexperienced in box building looks at the inside they might think its not a good build because they have seen too many fancy comercial pics from companies like JL who waste time and $$$ "impressing" the uneducated

btw, Very nice boxes. I always liked the dual stacked look.

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post #21 of 79 Old 08-18-2011, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielson99 View Post

True, it's a waste for a hack like you or me

We have seen your shop or the shop you have access too, you are definitely not a hack

I would be the hack with the truely DIY garage and all that goes into it

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post #22 of 79 Old 08-18-2011, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post

That's as good a reason as any, Nathan.

Back to this microphone deal... Would I need a mic preamp to boost the voltage to the mic, or is the voltage through the pc enough? I'm guessing the former, but I don't have that much experience with this.

Are you buying a mic? Like the Dayton EMM-6 or Behringer ECM8000??

For either of those you just need a usb soundcard like the M-audio mobilepre which comes with "Phatom power" already.

FWIW, you might want to consider the Omni measurement kit found on PE. Its an all-in-one solution and easy to start using.

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post #23 of 79 Old 08-22-2011, 04:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Penn,

Maybe I will, considering the Dayton Omni kit isn't that much more. Have you tried it?

David Budo
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post #24 of 79 Old 08-23-2011, 06:32 AM
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No, I have not tried it. I have the regular DIY measurement setup (mic, usb soundcard, freeware).

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post #25 of 79 Old 08-24-2011, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Do you guys think I'll get 110db at 20hz from these guys at 2m away?"

depends on your room. for an average enclosed room, yes. for an open floorplan, maybe.

there is only so much that you can do based on driver specs. for 20hz, you are looking mostly at displacement and the 12" with 12.5 mm isn't the biggest dog in the pound.

the sound quality of those drives should make up for any spl deficit though.

on another note, that drive makes for a nice tapped horn, but it requires about 10 cubes per horn.

max spl at 25hz 1 driver at 150 watts:

sealed...2 cubes...98 db
ported (22hz) tuning...2.5 cubes not including port...105 db
tapped horn...10 cubes...115 db

so if you have the space and the inclination, go big. if not, go small. you can always experiment too. :-)

btw, if you want to sacrifice the sub 20hz stuff, a tall narrow tapped horn with one fold could stand in a very small footprint and provide lots of sensivity and would be an easy build.

there are tons of options. whatever makes you happy is the best one.

Sorry, I didn't know you added to the post.

In your calculations for the sealed 2 cu ft., is that ground plane with 2 drivers or one?

For the apartment right now, I just can't fit a horn that big (but believe me, I really contemplated a DTS-10 or two ). I've already dominated the living room with my gear and I won't ask my girlfriend to find space for more of her stuff. You understand, I'm sure. I thought about going ported, but then thought the sealed cabinets can be used later on in a small sealed room to give better extension when we move. I've also never owned sealed subs before, so that's another reason I wanted to try them out.

David Budo
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post #26 of 79 Old 08-26-2011, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Painting started painting them yesterday and will finish up today. He's going to try to take some pictures for me this weekend.

David Budo
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post #27 of 79 Old 08-29-2011, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Primed and ready for finishing:



Finished, but Nathan isn't happy with it, so he's going to spray again today. The man has high standards, which is great for his customers:


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post #28 of 79 Old 08-29-2011, 01:06 PM
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I think Nathan needs a new camera Seems there is a lot of noise on the black, and I'm not even a photographer. So I can't tell how good/bad it is. Or maybe it's not noise and it's really bad, doubt that though.
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post #29 of 79 Old 08-29-2011, 01:08 PM
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Now for what it's worth I have hear a Monolith at full reference in a great room which uses a single 12" peerless driver and 300 watt amp and that sounded great. Even with pulse and full volume it was very loud, maybe not 100% controlled but still great value for money. I really am not sure about a dual version sealed. I think you are going to need at least 4 off these to get the spl in room that is demanding off most people these days to be honest.

Hats off to Nathan but anyone can build a dual sub like that. It's not that creative. A kinda copy cat off the dual ED sub maybe they offer but less power.
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post #30 of 79 Old 08-29-2011, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

I think Nathan needs a new camera Seems there is a lot of noise on the black, and I'm not even a photographer. So I can't tell how good/bad it is. Or maybe it's not noise and it's really bad, doubt that though.

Not sure what camera he's using, but I appreciate the pictures he sends me. I think the subs look great, but I'm going to trust his judgment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gperkins1973 View Post

Now for what it's worth I have hear a Monolith at full reference in a great room which uses a single 12" peerless driver and 300 watt amp and that sounded great. Even with pulse and full volume it was very loud, maybe not 100% controlled but still great value for money. I really am not sure about a dual version sealed. I think you are going to need at least 4 off these to get the spl in room that is demanding off most people these days to be honest.

Hats off to Nathan but anyone can build a dual sub like that. It's not that creative. A kinda copy cat off the dual ED sub maybe they offer but less power.

The design is mine, and he's building it for me. My room has limitations, which is why I went with this design.

Thanks for the feedback on the Peerless experience you had. I don't need reference levels from these guys. I'm just hoping for 110db at 20hz in room.

David Budo
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