Sealed dual LMS 18" 5400 build - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 176 Old 12-02-2011, 02:48 PM
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Might just be cuz you're using the RS meter that the numbers are down that much down low.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #122 of 176 Old 12-02-2011, 02:59 PM
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I haven't a clue but I would have thought your room would not have a huge negative affect on 13hz and lower but maybe I am wrong?
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post #123 of 176 Old 12-02-2011, 04:39 PM
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post #124 of 176 Old 12-07-2011, 10:01 AM
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Any more listening impressions?

Compared to your captivator setup are you impressed with the new system enough to justify the extra expense of these 1k drivers?
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post #125 of 176 Old 12-09-2011, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post

My initial thoughts:

- Wow this thing is heavy! I weighed the box before putting in the drivers and it was just over 100lb's

- Wow these drivers in a sealed box are power hungry

- WOW the FP14000 is powerful!!!

- Wow the 5400 + VMP design is much more efficient

- Wow this thing sounds good

At first it sounded good, but not great. The punch and weight of the bass was missing, and it didn't play well with the VMP sub AT ALL. Both sounded much better playing by themselves. I inverted the polarity on the MiniDSP for the sealed sub and bingoDANG it sounds good!

I can see how a Marathon MA-5050 would come in a little short for powering one of these. The FP14000 seems endless for power. It just keep going and going, and my ears say stop when trying to find its limits. I haven't seen the clip lights yet, and for me that's a first.

The cost of these two weren't too far apart. The dual sealed setup was about $150 more expensive, but theFP14000 was 3x the cost of an EP4000.
As I get some time to listen, and for the new drivers to break in, I'll post some thoughts on the sound differences between the two. Even at this point with only a couple minutes of listening, I prefer the sealed setup.

how do you invert the polarity on the MiniDSP?
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post #126 of 176 Old 12-09-2011, 07:03 AM
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Inverting MDSP:

Click on "Delay/Gain/RMS-outputs 1 & 2" (Or outputs 3 & 4, whichever you are trying to invert)

On bottom right corner of output channels is the button to click on. If it is glowing green it is inverted.
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post #127 of 176 Old 12-09-2011, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

Any more listening impressions?

Compared to your captivator setup are you impressed with the new system enough to justify the extra expense of these 1k drivers?

Very interested in your impressions here as well as I LOVE my JTR t-12's and can imagine the caps are just as high quality of a build as they are

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #128 of 176 Old 12-09-2011, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

Any more listening impressions?

Compared to your captivator setup are you impressed with the new system enough to justify the extra expense of these 1k drivers?

This setup is almost twice the cost as my dual Cap setup, but it is a improvement in every way.

Earlier this year when I was looking to upgrade from my DD-18, I wanted more low end output but didn't want to lose the clean and crisp punch of the DD-18.

A single Cap had the output down to 20hz, easily more than two DD-18's were capable of, but the bass reflex design wasn't as clean down low. There was also the inherent problem with bass reflex designs which is port noise. Even without the the Peavey 4080hz, a EP4000 could drive a Cap hard enough to produce port noise. I will say this though, it was the least noticeable amount of port noise I've ever experienced with a ported sub.

Because of the cost between the two setups, it's not really a fair comparison. The quad 5400s are cleaner, louder, and play much much much lower. At 40hz and up I had no issue with the Caps, but when we're talking about 10hz to 25hz performance, there's no comparison, and considering the price difference there really shouldn't be.

This to me is really the best of all worlds. Bass that extends to 10hz and below depending on the room, a crisp and powerful punch at 50-60hz, ultra low distortion, zero port noise, and with the FP14000's they have what seems like limitless output.
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post #129 of 176 Old 12-09-2011, 12:01 PM
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Overall do you think this is more a product of the rediculous amounts of power you have going to the LMS's vs the caps, or more the specific design? Obviously sealed will go lower, but further up in the passband?

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #130 of 176 Old 12-09-2011, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Overall do you think this is more a product of the rediculous amounts of power you have going to the LMS's vs the caps, or more the specific design? Obviously sealed will go lower, but further up in the passband?

The sealed design obviously eliminates any port noise, and that's a major annoyance of mine. Also, according to my ears, sealed subs play clearer/cleaner for sub 30hz material.

The ridiculous amount of power is kind of necessary considering how inefficient these drivers are when sealed. However, the FP14000 just happens to be ridiculous enough to even over-power TWO of these drivers at once. I'm sure something like the QSC RMX 5050 and Marathon MA-5050 could push these loud, but probably not as loud as dual Caps with a EP4000...
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post #131 of 176 Old 12-09-2011, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Took a video of these in action. That wall is the main supporting wall in my house...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO_wJIst0xI
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post #132 of 176 Old 12-09-2011, 05:14 PM
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Imagine 8

Are those in phase? might just be the angle/video but they looked out of phase.
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post #133 of 176 Old 12-09-2011, 05:15 PM
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Whoa!!!
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post #134 of 176 Old 12-09-2011, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

Imagine 8

Are those in phase? might just be the angle/video but they looked out of phase.

They're in phase. I'm not sure why they look like that in the video but I noticed the same thing.
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post #135 of 176 Old 12-09-2011, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

Imagine 8

Are those in phase? might just be the angle/video but they looked out of phase.

For the heck of it, I took some slow motion video of the drivers in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfqcmfP3gjU
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post #136 of 176 Old 12-09-2011, 05:52 PM
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Hah, that's cool, but the left looked out of phase to the right, or at least the top driver.. probably illusion.
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post #137 of 176 Old 12-09-2011, 05:54 PM
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Please post more videos of your quad sealed LMS 5400 ultra 18" subs powered by dual FP14000s on some bass-heavy scenes or musics btw, where did you hide your FP14000s
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post #138 of 176 Old 12-09-2011, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post


For the heck of it, I took some slow motion video of the drivers in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfqcmfP3gjU

Lovely sight!
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post #139 of 176 Old 12-09-2011, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post

For the heck of it, I took some slow motion video of the drivers in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfqcmfP3gjU

Quick question for ya, how inert are those cabinets??
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post #140 of 176 Old 12-09-2011, 09:39 PM
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Those cabs were a rocking! literally!

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #141 of 176 Old 12-09-2011, 09:45 PM
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Wow four of those must be a blast. I really cant even imagine 8 of those like Not's. Someday maybe someone around me will have a pair so I can have a listen.
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post #142 of 176 Old 12-10-2011, 12:58 AM
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post #143 of 176 Old 12-10-2011, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Got all four in slow motion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diwXHF3HrWw

The drivers in the right cabinet appear to be perfectly in sync, but in the left cabinet, the top driver seems to have a little more loose suspension?
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post #144 of 176 Old 12-10-2011, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Quick question for ya, how inert are those cabinets??

There's 9lb's of polyfill in each cabinet, and I can't hear any noise/resonances from the cabinets at all.

In terms of cabinet vibration, you can obviously feel it if you crank it up, but it's MUCH less than any commercial sub I've ever had. My DD-18 had WAY more flex in the cabinet.
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post #145 of 176 Old 12-10-2011, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post

There's 9lb's of polyfill in each cabinet, and I can't hear any noise/resonances from the cabinets at all.

In terms of cabinet vibration, you can obviously feel it if you crank it up, but it's MUCH less than any commercial sub I've ever had. My DD-18 had WAY more flex in the cabinet.

Thanks for the info.

Btw, that slow-mo of all 4 drivers pumping looks WAAAAAY COOL!
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post #146 of 176 Old 12-10-2011, 12:08 PM
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What camera did you use for the slow-mo shots and what frame rate?

YID DIY
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post #147 of 176 Old 12-10-2011, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

What camera did you use for the slow-mo shots and what frame rate?

Canon 300 HS. The mode is called "super slow motion" and is 240fps.
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post #148 of 176 Old 12-11-2011, 01:21 PM
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Cool stuff, they appear in phase to me.

It would be quite interesting to catch the manner in which the surrounds de-form, which I've seen in not's vids. At gig excursions, they pull in asymmetrically.

Always neat to see vids, especially the super slo-motion. So thanks for that.

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post #149 of 176 Old 12-11-2011, 08:16 PM
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wow I love the subs video. Id love to hear those!
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post #150 of 176 Old 12-12-2011, 09:29 AM
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No doubt your system sounds great, Luke. Thanks for the vids.

I do have a comment on the most recent slomo video of all four subs. I think it may be optical illusion, but depending on where I focus during the video, I find different things. I've thought the top two drivers were equally out of phase with the bottom two drivers, but in phase with each other, when looking at the top of the center speaker. I've thought the top left driver was out of phase with all the others when staring at the midpoint between the two drivers on the right. I've though the bottom right was out of phase with all the others, and significantly, when focusing on the light reflection on the top right driver.

Maybe I'm crazy, but try it for yourself. If it's of serious concern to you, a good way to see would be a direct-on camera view (from the front, equidistant from the stacks) with strong side lighting.
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