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post #1 of 20 Old 08-28-2011, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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I recently got rid of a LLT (SS Rlp15" in a 220l enclosure I think it was.. tuned to 15hz). While it was nice in it's own way, it is just too damn big. I recently moved, and that's when I decided I had to get rid of this thing. Taking it down stairs, up stairs, etc.. a huge box like that, 100kilos or so. It's just.. TOO BIG.

I currently have a house of my own now, but I will only live here for a year or so.. before I will hopefully have my "dream house". I will probably go for an IB or something then. We'll see!


Point is: A LLT sub is not very practical in my current situation!




I got one free channel on my CE4000. I believe it has around 1200w @ 4 ohm, and 600w @ 8 ohm.

I would like to use that channel for a subwoofer. But I don't want a BIG box. I would say maybe 100litres is the maximum size I would go with. I do have 2 subwoofers on hand also, not being used (a JBL 2226H and one SS RLp15").

Is it possible to make a subwoofer using one of these drivers, that is able to play down to 25hz or so, with my size/power restrictions ?

If so, which woofer should I go for ?


(The driver I don't end up using, I will make a cabinet for to put in my car).
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post #2 of 20 Old 08-28-2011, 07:06 AM
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The 2226 lacks excursion to be a potent sub, but works well as a woofer. Maybe use it, ported, tuned to around 25-28hz for a more music oriented sub crossed over around 100hz? BTW, I did not put that woofer in WINisd, but I think that tuning freq will work with a box that size.

OR. Put the RL-p in a sealed box.

Side note: The CE4k was 3rd party test to put out just under 1kw @ 4ohms @ 20hz with 1%THD

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post #3 of 20 Old 08-28-2011, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I played around with WinISD, using the RLp15".

If I have done things correctly, it shows that I will have the following maximum SPL at 1m distance, 1000w, and a 80l enclosure (Sealed):

106dB @ 20hz, (6.30ms GD)
111dB @ 30hz, (5,62ms GD)
114dB @ 40hz, (4,54ms GD)
116dB @ 50hz, (3.55ms GD)
117dB @ 60hz, (2.60ms GD)
118dB @ 80hz, (1.65ms GD)

QTC = 0.58

I don't know if the max SPL numbers take in account for room gain or not?

I know the higher GD, the worse it is. But I don't really know how bad 6.3ms is in "reality" ?

I will be sitting 1-2m away from the subwoofer. I would cut it off at 60hz probably.. With some room gain, it could actually help increase the SPL down low (17-25hz), along with my AV15H P1152.. (If I manage to make them play together) ?

By adding some filters/calbrating it a bit (so that I don't have the 12dB difference from 20hz vs 80hz), this could be a decent subwoofer ?

Am I way off, or is there some sense in this?

The JBL 2226H I haven't played around with yet. But I would definately use it up to 160-200hz! And yes, I know that subwoofer would be more music oriented.
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post #4 of 20 Old 08-28-2011, 02:18 PM
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What does the milliseconds GD refer to?
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post #5 of 20 Old 08-28-2011, 02:47 PM
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They don't account for room gain. Winisd basically thinks the sub is in the middle of a field with at least 70 ft from any boundaries I believe. Also equalization will be able to flatten that out no problem most likely because you will not be listening at max all the time.
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post #6 of 20 Old 08-29-2011, 02:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoDuck View Post

What does the milliseconds GD refer to?

Group Delay
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post #7 of 20 Old 08-29-2011, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myggpower View Post

Group Delay

Which will be inaudible.
the 2226 is definitely not a sub in the HT meaning.
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post #8 of 20 Old 08-29-2011, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Then it is settled! I will build one cute little cabinet for my SS RLp15", with around 60-80l net volume. Smallest subwoofer I've ever had Hehe.

(Im also gonna build a small sealed cabinet for the 2226H, to put in my car)

Build pics etc will be put here when I start building it. Thinking of using 1" MDF for it.
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post #9 of 20 Old 08-29-2011, 11:40 AM
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Good idea. Put that RLp15 in a sealed box and if you need more deep bass down the road, you can always add more. Btw, didn't you also have a RLp18?

Post up about the 2226 in your car when you do it. I'm putting dual 2226h's in my Jeep Liberty soon.

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post #10 of 20 Old 08-29-2011, 12:07 PM
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2226 in vehicles - what a waste.
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post #11 of 20 Old 08-29-2011, 01:09 PM
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It's a waste for them to just sit unused in the back of my HT room.

I'm doing it as an experiment. If it doesn't work out, I'll use different drivers. I figure the awesome midbass would be really good in a car.

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post #12 of 20 Old 08-29-2011, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

It's a waste for them to just sit unused in the back of my HT room.

I'm doing it as an experiment. If it doesn't work out, I'll use different drivers. I figure the awesome midbass would be really good in a car.

Same here.. I think they/it will be quite amazing in a car. We'll see! I have faith in it

The RLp18" was sold a while ago.
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post #13 of 20 Old 08-31-2011, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Yellow: Rlp15" in a 60l sealed enclosure (Not much difference from the SPL numbers in #3)
Blue: JBL 2226H in a 60l sealed enclosure

I cut the sheets for them today.

For the JBL im going to use 19mm MDF (I had some sheets from before).

For the SS RLp15", I was going to use 22mm MDF, but they don't sell it anymore So I decided to use 12mm plywood x 2.. I just glued the sheets together, so that they are 24mm.

I have never built enclosures with plywood before.. I know the weight/finish is a plus with it, but will 24mm be thick enough for a sealed subwoofer? Im thinking of adding one more sheet for the front baffle, so that I end up with 36mm... but is it really necessary ?
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post #14 of 20 Old 08-31-2011, 12:49 PM
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^^ Did you check the excursion for those sims?
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post #15 of 20 Old 08-31-2011, 01:17 PM
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Those look pretty correct to me. Excursion will be in check with those simulated output numbers. EDIT: It really depends on if that is one or two 2226's in that 60 liter cab. If it's two then it will be fine. If just one, then excursion needs to be checked out depending on input power.

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post #16 of 20 Old 08-31-2011, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmm.. I have used WinISD (Not Pro), and I took input power 1000W on the RLp15", and 600W on the 2226H. I assumed that SPL was within it's xmax, or at least xmech, limits ?

Or am I way off now?

The 2226H is with ONE driver btw. I don't know if it is of any importance, but I will naturally use a SS filter on it, probably in the 30hz area.. and even though my car-subwoofer-amplifier is rated to "600watts", It is probably far less in reality. This is pretty much just a "lets see how it sounds" project, as Im currently using an old 12" driver with low xmax atm, and it actually gives me decent bass in my car. I assume the JBL will play a bit louder, and give me better "punch".

Quote:
I know the weight/finish is a plus with it, but will 24mm be thick enough for a sealed subwoofer? Im thinking of adding one more sheet for the front baffle, so that I end up with 36mm... but is it really necessary ?
Anyone ?


Btw.. I just installed WinISD Pro btw, and I can see there is a lot more options, including cone excursion. But I need some time to "get myself into it"... hope I haven't rushed everything now, and have cut some useless enclosure sheets!
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post #17 of 20 Old 08-31-2011, 01:52 PM
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I forgot it was for a tin can application.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myggpower View Post
Hmm.. I have used WinISD (Not Pro), and I took input power 1000W on the RLp15", and 600W on the 2226H. I assumed that SPL was within it's xmax, or at least xmech, limits ?

Or am I way off now?

The 2226H is with ONE driver btw.
After the previous post, I simmed it in Unibox and had it running out of Xmax (Xmech for this driver is about 30mm IIRC) in half space at 75Hz for a single driver in 60L. I've designed and used the 2225/6 a lot over the years so have a fairly good idea what it will do without running a sim.
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post #18 of 20 Old 09-06-2011, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Just completed both the JBL2226H "carwoofer" & RLp15" that I will use in my HT.

I found out that one voice coil was blown/damaged (one wire wasn't connected because it had burnt off). So im just running the Rlp15" with a single voice coil (which I probably have for some years anyway, in my LLT cabinet).

Rlp15: This isn't a subwoofer to rule them all exactly.. it was just to add a little "extra", and so far it seems to do that. But I have to work more on integrating it with the rest of the system. The cabinet is quite sturdy. 25mm plywood all around.

JBL: Will comment when I have tried it in my car.

Some pics:















The only thing left is to paint them black.
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post #19 of 20 Old 09-07-2011, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Final result:



Crappy picture.. my cellphone camera isn't any good without much light! But it's a nice cabinet, im quite happy with it. I've built some cabinets over the time now, and it gets easier every time (and also done faster). This is my first sealed cabinet also, which made it even easier.

I will always build in plywood from now on. So much easier to get a nice finish (I love wood grain), and I don't have to worry about poisonous dust (as opposed to MDF...).

The subwoofer is doing exactly what I hoped it would do (even with just one VC). Sitting 1-2m away from it, so it gives decent output if needed to.
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post #20 of 20 Old 07-17-2012, 02:07 AM
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Myggpower, lol, I've been reading your old threads relating to JBL 2226's tonight. smile.gif

Never heard what you thought of this build and the car installation.

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