Lilmike's Cinema T-6 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 192 Old 03-11-2012, 08:21 AM
Newbie
 
Dsentrieb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I let it run up to 90Hz with 48dB cut, wonderfull....thx to Mike and all his work on it that let me make building a pair!!!! Astonishing, such a small driver in a big housing. Great sounding, amazing.
LL
LL
LL
Dsentrieb is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 192 Old 03-11-2012, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Düsentrieb View Post

I let it run up to 90Hz with 48dB cut, wonderfull....thx to Mike and all his work on it that let me make building a pair!!!! Astonishing, such a small driver in a big housing. Great sounding, amazing.

Glad you like it. Have fun!
lilmike is offline  
post #93 of 192 Old 05-08-2012, 01:22 AM
Newbie
 
iwong28's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What is an acceptable range for the various t/s specs. I am just looking to see if there are other drivers I can use in this config. I have some 10" rockford p1s in mind, but the specs vary from some of the subs listed earlier. Thanks
iwong28 is offline  
post #94 of 192 Old 10-09-2012, 08:20 PM
Newbie
 
Helosquid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
LilMike,
first I would like to say thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge with the forum. I am a long term lurker, and have decided to build both one of your F20s and T-6 subs for different applications. The T-6 is going to my daughter for a simple 2.1 system. I saw that the Infinity Reference 1060w is on sale for $48 on Amazon. Would this driver work for the T-6?

VOICE COIL DC EVC (OHMS) . . . . . . 3.59
EVC (MH) . . . . . . . 2.83
DRIVER RADIATING AREA: SD (IN2) . . . . . . . 56.265
SD (M2) . . . . . . . 363.00
MOTOR FORCE FACTOR: BL (TM) . . . . . . . . 16.02
COMPLIANCE VOLUME: VAS (FT3) . . . . . . . . 1.16
VAS (LITERS) . . . . . 32.90
SUSPENSION COMPLIANCE: CMS (μM/N) . . . . 175.00
MOVING MASS, AIR LOAD: MMS (GRAMS). . . . 173.00
MOVING MASS, DIAPHRAGM: MMD (GRAMS) . . . 169.00
FREE-AIR RESONANCE: FS (HZ) . . . . . . . . 29.00
MECHANICAL Q: QMS . . . . . . . . . . . 7.59
ELECTRICAL Q: QES . . . . . . . . . . . 0.44
TOTAL Q: QTS . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.42
MAGNETIC-GAP HEIGHT: HAG (IN) . . . . . . . . .0.314
HAG (MM) . . . . . . . . 8.00
VOICE COIL HEIGHT: HVC (IN) .. . . . . . . . . 1.34
HVC (MM) . . . . . . . . . . 34
MAXIMUM EXCURSION: XMAX (IN) . . . . . . . 0.512
XMAX (MM) . . . . . . 13.00


Thanks for the help in advance,
Dave
Helosquid is offline  
post #95 of 192 Old 10-10-2012, 06:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Martycool007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 135
How would this T-6 with a Dayton Pro-10 or TC Sounds Epic 10, compare to a sealed 3.5 cubic foot sealed enclosure with a TC Sounds Epic 10, if I build 3 of them to go under my LCR's (bookshelf speakers) connected via the speaker level outputs on the back of a Bash 300 watt amp? My goal is to be able to make my front stage sound more like a large tower setup, even though I have small bookshelf Ascend Acoustics Sierrs-1's.
Martycool007 is offline  
post #96 of 192 Old 10-10-2012, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 71
According to the model with specs from Infinity's website, things should work OK with the Infinity 1060W in a T-6.

I'll be entirely honest though - I am concerned that a 10 might be too big a driver for a T-6 based on some of my other experiences. I don't have any suitable 10s, so I have not had a chance to build one with a 10 and measure, so I do not have any experience with anything other than 8s in the T-6.
lilmike is offline  
post #97 of 192 Old 10-10-2012, 08:59 PM
Newbie
 
Helosquid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsentrieb View Post

I let it run up to 90Hz with 48dB cut, wonderfull....thx to Mike and all his work on it that let me make building a pair!!!! Astonishing, such a small driver in a big housing. Great sounding, amazing.

What size driver are you using? I am trying to build a 10" version. Did you have any fitment issues?

Thanks,
Dave
Helosquid is offline  
post #98 of 192 Old 10-11-2012, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Physically, the 10 will fit. The question I have is whether or not my model accurately predicts what that 10 will do in this cabinet.

Experience has taught me that things are not always as they seem with Hornresp, but that's not the fault of the software, only the physical limitations of the real world rearing their head.
lilmike is offline  
post #99 of 192 Old 10-11-2012, 05:35 PM
Newbie
 
Helosquid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks Mike,
for ~$40 I am willing to experiment. I can always swap out the driver if I need to.
Dave
Helosquid is offline  
post #100 of 192 Old 10-21-2012, 12:28 PM
Newbie
 
-=HypnoToad=-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
This looks like a nice design, I'm tempted to give it a go with the JBL 10" driver as this is available to me in the UK.

I was wondering if it's possible to use it with a 12" driver if I make the box a little wider?

I have a few Pioneer TS-W305C drivers that I would quite like to use here:

Now I tried to model it in hornresp, but I wanted to check that I had all numbers correctly before starting to cut the ply. I've aimed for a 13" internal width, so in order to model this I've divided all the SD values by 11.75 and then multiplied by 13. I've also done this to the VTC and ATC values.

Here's my input screen:
cS36f.png
There is an error, "Atc < SD", is this of great concern?

And the SPL curve:
sqALa.png
Pioneer drive in black, Tang Band driver in grey.

Now it seems to model pretty well, is there anything I have got wrong here at all as I'm still getting to grips with hornresp.

Also I'm planning to use 1/2" inch ply and also extra bracing as this box will be wider.

Thanks smile.gif

EDIT:
I'm not sure how I can attach text files so I'll copy/paste my hornresp export file:


ID=29
Ang=2.0 x Pi
Eg=2
Rg=0
Fta=1.23
S1=100.4
S2=112.2
Par=11.43
F12=0
S2=112.2
S3=305.3
Par=186.3
F23=0
S3=305.3
S4=634.4
Par=145.77
F34=0
S4=634.4
S5=790.2
Par=68.96
F45=0
Sd=460
Bl=15.62
Cms=0.000172
Rms=1.88
Mmd=138.2
Le=2.11
Re=3
TH=1
Vrc=0
Lrc=0
Ap1=0
Lpt=0
Vtc=544.9
Atc=454.1
Pmax=400
Xmax=10
Comment=Cinema T-6 Pioneer TS-W305C (13"Internal)
-=HypnoToad=- is offline  
post #101 of 192 Old 10-21-2012, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Looks like you need to go even larger. The 12 really needs more room than that.

Atc is the area of the driver cutout, for a 12, this is typically about 614 sq cm. Vtc is the volume of the cutout and the area in front of the cone, setting it at 1,000 should be close enough.

Compression is far too high, aim for 1/3 of the driver's Sd at S2. Also, the flare is too small, aim for at least .9* Sd at S3.

According to my spreadsheet, a width of about 18 inches internally would get close to these goals.

At this width - bracing is absolutely required. With a 12, since we're working with 1/2" material, I'd recommend that you use nothing less than quality Baltic Birch ply.
lilmike is offline  
post #102 of 192 Old 10-21-2012, 07:14 PM
Senior Member
 
Shinyav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Chicago south suburbs
Posts: 317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Anyone have any thoughts on using this as a car sub? Joansing for another build but not ready to jump into quad 18"s for my room.
I really know very little about what's different between HT subs to car subs.

I have seen it mentioned several times that the tuning of this sub is probably perfect for a car.

Any random info/thoughts on using this in a car would be appreciated.

Seems like it would be hard to beat for <$200.

Shinyav is offline  
post #103 of 192 Old 10-22-2012, 08:56 AM
Newbie
 
-=HypnoToad=-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Looks like you need to go even larger. The 12 really needs more room than that.
Atc is the area of the driver cutout, for a 12, this is typically about 614 sq cm. Vtc is the volume of the cutout and the area in front of the cone, setting it at 1,000 should be close enough.
Compression is far too high, aim for 1/3 of the driver's Sd at S2. Also, the flare is too small, aim for at least .9* Sd at S3.
According to my spreadsheet, a width of about 18 inches internally would get close to these goals.
At this width - bracing is absolutely required. With a 12, since we're working with 1/2" material, I'd recommend that you use nothing less than quality Baltic Birch ply.
Thanks, an 18" internal depth does seem to sim well, even if it does make the box quite a bit larger.

Inputs:
aZhjL.png

JBL GTO driver in grey in 11" wide box, Pioneer driver in black in 18" wide box:
xlsxW.png

I was planning to build a pair of these, so if I can find enough room for them then I'll have to start making some sawdust. cool.gif I've got quite a few offcuts already so I'll use plenty of bracing and good quality wood.
-=HypnoToad=- is offline  
post #104 of 192 Old 10-22-2012, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 71
My inputs were a little different, I lengthened L12 for the 12" driver.


The results are similar though.


And - at 300 watts:
lilmike is offline  
post #105 of 192 Old 11-10-2012, 03:41 AM
Advanced Member
 
blackoper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 553
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Looks like I'm getting ready to build a t-6 or two based on the Dayton Audio DC250-8 10" Classic Woofer and a Dayton 100 watt plate amp. Buddy finally wants to pull the trigger. The Dayton SA100 should be enough to drive this or do I need to bump up the wattage?
blackoper is offline  
post #106 of 192 Old 11-12-2012, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 71
The DC250-8 is not a good woofer to use in this cabinet, nowhere near enough motor.

I recommend the DCS-255.
GiantBubbleGuy likes this.
lilmike is offline  
post #107 of 192 Old 11-12-2012, 12:37 PM
Advanced Member
 
blackoper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 553
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 23
ok thanks
blackoper is offline  
post #108 of 192 Old 12-06-2012, 09:29 PM
Senior Member
 
Shinyav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Chicago south suburbs
Posts: 317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
What do the hornresp inputs become for a box 10-3/8"?

Trying to model the JBL GTO1014 to figure out how much amp to really look for. Going to finally start my car build soon.

Seems like the JBL GTO1014 has more output than the tang band or 10" dayton for the same price.

Shinyav is offline  
post #109 of 192 Old 12-08-2012, 01:22 PM
Member
 
doodoobutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 170
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I want to make one of these with the dayton classic 8" and a dayton SA100 plate amp. Does anyone know what the high pass filter is on this amp?
doodoobutter is offline  
post #110 of 192 Old 12-09-2012, 01:47 PM
Member
 
doodoobutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 170
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Another question, how much of a difference would the 10" dayton classic make over the 8" dayton classic?
doodoobutter is offline  
post #111 of 192 Old 12-27-2012, 06:52 PM
Newbie
 
mpiotro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have been looking at building a cheapo pair of horns for my patio. They will be primarily covered and I will likely incorporate some sort of stand to get the mouth off the ground. Thinking Baltic Birch and using a spar type varnish. Can someone recommend a 6.5"-8" woofer for the T6 that MAY stand up to the rigors of being outdoors for a couple years between replacement. I'm thinking paper woofers are not going to enjoy the humidity swings in GA.

Also, anybody ever power a set of small subs like these with a Truepath kit or similar (as on 41Hz or similar)? Thinking it would be neat to integrate the amp into one of them.
mpiotro is offline  
post #112 of 192 Old 12-27-2012, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Hmmm, maybe a marine driver? I'll take a peek and see what the choices may be. Otherwise, probably a poly-cone car driver. There are a few good choices, but I need to see what is currently available. A few JBL's looked OK, but have all been discontinued.

I'd also worry about critters moving in and calling them home sweet home...

No experience with a ChipAmp, but I suppose that it would be OK so long as the impedance was proper for the amp.
lilmike is offline  
post #113 of 192 Old 02-04-2013, 02:42 PM
Newbie
 
slayyou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
hi i have a Boston Acoustics G510-44 DVC and i was wondering wether it would work in this enclosure. i would love to model this but i have yet to find a way to run hornsrep on a mac

here are all the specs i could find on it

fs: (hz) 32.37
re: 1.54
qms: 9.19
Qes: 0.50
Qts: 0.47
Vas(liters): 29.77 vas(ft3) 1.0513
Mms(grams):122.4
Cms (um/Newton): 198
Xmax (Mm): 15.0
Xmech(Mm): 45.0
Sd (Cm2): 327
Bl(tesla-M):8.76
SPL Eff: (dB @ 1w/1m) 84.9
SPL Sen: (dB @ 2.83v) 92.0
slayyou is offline  
post #114 of 192 Old 02-04-2013, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by slayyou View Post

hi i have a Boston Acoustics G510-44 DVC and i was wondering wether it would work in this enclosure. i would love to model this but i have yet to find a way to run hornsrep on a mac

here are all the specs i could find on it

fs: (hz) 32.37
re: 1.54
qms: 9.19
Qes: 0.50
Qts: 0.47
Vas(liters): 29.77 vas(ft3) 1.0513
Mms(grams):122.4
Cms (um/Newton): 198
Xmax (Mm): 15.0
Xmech(Mm): 45.0
Sd (Cm2): 327
Bl(tesla-M):8.76
SPL Eff: (dB @ 1w/1m) 84.9
SPL Sen: (dB @ 2.83v) 92.0

And I was just gonna say that I needed specs...

Ninja post edits...

I used the specs with the coils in series, looks like it will work fine.
lilmike is offline  
post #115 of 192 Old 02-05-2013, 05:54 PM
Newbie
 
slayyou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
thats great! would this also work in paralel? just asking because i intend for it to go in a car if not its not a dealbreaker just means im going to have to get a beefier amp biggrin.gif
slayyou is offline  
post #116 of 192 Old 02-06-2013, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by slayyou View Post

thats great! would this also work in paralel? just asking because i intend for it to go in a car if not its not a dealbreaker just means im going to have to get a beefier amp biggrin.gif

Should work fine.

Definitely want to highpass this at about 25 Hz.

Interested in knowing how it works in a car. Several people have talked about it, but no one has reported back with results.
lilmike is offline  
post #117 of 192 Old 02-08-2013, 01:44 AM
Newbie
 
slayyou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
yes im very excited to try it out! ill be specifically looking for a car that can fit this comfortably! will this negatively affect my power handling?
slayyou is offline  
post #118 of 192 Old 02-08-2013, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 71
While it exceeds xmax slightly, the driver is still well within xmech, so it should take the full 450 watts of rated RMS power without complaining if you have a proper 25 Hz highpass in place.

Without a 25 Hz highpass, I'd definitely worry about excessive excursion below the horn's tune.
lilmike is offline  
post #119 of 192 Old 02-10-2013, 01:38 PM
Newbie
 
bemmk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi Mike,
I've read the thread of your tapped horn T-6. I've drawn your design on plywood, just to see if I can manage. I succeeded! I' m going to build the horn with a Jbl gto 1014. (bidding on internet, don't have them yet). You 've said earlier that: " JBL GTO1014 (make the cabinet 10-5/8" wide internally". You mean it should be narrower than the original width?
I did not draw your tarted version. Should I? What is the advantage?
I wil include a picture of my drawing. Thanks for your great work. I enjoyed working with it.
With kind regards
Koen van bemmel
The Netherlands
bemmk is offline  
post #120 of 192 Old 02-10-2013, 01:54 PM
Newbie
 
bemmk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
bemmk is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off