Vegas Maelstrom survival/failure thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 39 Old 09-04-2011, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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If we can get each person that ordered a Maelstrom(s) to make just 1 post, which driver(s) you ordered and whether it survived thus far or failed, without too much talk, conversation, or OT here so it's basically only posts of whether it made it or died, that woud be great. If you make an initial post of survived or dont know then later it dies, please make a 2nd post saying so. Maybe I should make a "poll" so that it can be tallied... but I suppose it would be hard to fix if it later failed. maybe after a month add a poll if possible, but i suppose after everyone who plans on posting here posts we can simply add them up.
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post #2 of 39 Old 09-04-2011, 07:15 PM
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Survived. Currently in use. Still young though. (keeping fingers crossed)

C.

Edited to reflect alignment and powerplant:

18"
8 cuft 16hz ported alignment
500w oaudio amp - set at 16hz crossosver/boost
60hz crossover to mains

I know that's a wimpy amount of power for this, but it has enough output for me, and I hope never to drive it hard enough to make the glue fail.
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post #3 of 39 Old 09-04-2011, 07:16 PM
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21" - working as of 12 hour break in @20hz and another 10 hours of free air testing with frequency of 3 to 80hz.

Going into a 15 cu ft sealed box shortly
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post #4 of 39 Old 09-04-2011, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerdic View Post

Survived. Currently in use. Still young though. (keeping fingers crossed)

C.

18" or 21"?
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post #5 of 39 Old 09-04-2011, 10:06 PM
 
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18" couple of years old and no problems.
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post #6 of 39 Old 09-04-2011, 10:12 PM
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Prolly would be a good idea to mention at least what kind of alignment and powerplant are hooked up to them too. Just for reference.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #7 of 39 Old 09-04-2011, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

18" couple of years old and no problems.

By "Vegas" I meant the last run, the bad run where failures are expected But just the same, i am glad yours is still kickin!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Prolly would be a good idea to mention at least what kind of alignment and powerplant are hooked up to them too. Just for reference.

Agreed: 2 weeks 20Hz sine wave free air prolly won't do a thing, where as small sealed/ported/horn with music should only take a few minutes at best. Infinite baffle is free air, I dont think most people realize you could play full excursion from 20Hz on down all day long in an IB and prolly be safe driver wise unless the amp is clipping. Structurally good luck... I had to remove the glass shade from my ceiling fan in addition to support beams and bracing.
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post #8 of 39 Old 09-05-2011, 12:56 AM
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I think its really odd how quick the drivers sold out but yet nobody is posting failures. Especially since all 8 of Not's failed, and a really high percentage of others from the bad batch factory run failed as well.

Either the majority of these that were purchased are being used in really large enclosures/IB or really arent being pushed enough to warm them up. There is just no possible way that there are many "working" drivers from this batch. I know its possible that a few, very few, could hold up to their capabilities when used in something other than in an IB style enclosure, but lets atleasst see some results. I'm just as curious as you KW. If only a hand full made it I think that would be awesome. My gut feeling was about 95%+ would fail. If I could have ordered a bunch of them I would have put them in an IB or just made some sort of furniture out of them as I would have been certian they wouldnt hold up under any other alignment.

Oh well sorry for rambling in you thread KW, but I'm curious as well being that I tried to order them myself.
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post #9 of 39 Old 09-05-2011, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite View Post

Agreed: 2 weeks 20Hz sine wave free air prolly won't do a thing, where as small sealed/ported/horn with music should only take a few minutes at best. Infinite baffle is free air, I dont think most people realize you could play full excursion from 20Hz on down all day long in an IB and prolly be safe driver wise unless the amp is clipping. Structurally good luck... I had to remove the glass shade from my ceiling fan in addition to support beams and bracing.

You're correct on the 20hz and free air testing, however its more than a few minutes for them to break. After about an hour of heavy usage playing music I began to see failures. Some required a few heat cycles and heavy usage to fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

I think its really odd how quick the drivers sold out but yet nobody is posting failures. Especially since all 8 of Not's failed, and a really high percentage of others from the bad batch factory run failed as well.

Either the majority of these that were purchased are being used in really large enclosures/IB or really arent being pushed enough to warm them up. There is just no possible way that there are many "working" drivers from this batch. I know its possible that a few, very few, could hold up to their capabilities when used in something other than in an IB style enclosure, but lets atleasst see some results. I'm just as curious as you KW. If only a hand full made it I think that would be awesome. My gut feeling was about 95%+ would fail. If I could have ordered a bunch of them I would have put them in an IB or just made some sort of furniture out of them as I would have been certian they wouldnt hold up under any other alignment.

Oh well sorry for rambling in you thread KW, but I'm curious as well being that I tried to order them myself.

I pretty much agree with this. Everyone testing these free air is not really putting them through a proper heat cycle and warming up the magnets enough. I just hope they can find a proper 18 to use as a replacement when they eventually fail. All of the original drivers I received failed, then some of the replacements started failing. I think I sent 5 back that didn't, but they were from the replacements I received, which as soon as one or two of them failed, and there were no more drivers to be had (I even replaced one with a used driver), they all had to go.

The only Maelstrom driver I had that didn't have issues with was one that I bought used from an older run. It still had build issues though, as the glue holding the surround to the basket was actually missing in a small spot. Fortunately, that was an easy repair.
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post #10 of 39 Old 09-05-2011, 06:50 PM
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I've got one 21" Vegas sub. it's currently in it's box. my tentative plan is to mount it IB on a baffle in the back wall for uLtra low frequency reinforcement from 30 down. I'm gonna feed it 225w Off an unused channel on my Emotiva amp. It models pretty nice with 225 and stays under control pretty well.
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post #11 of 39 Old 09-07-2011, 01:57 AM
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my 21 is still good, and I might have the most hours out of anyone.

I have watched 6 or 7 full movies and 50+ hours of music. I have given 3 full "demos" to friends which include a minute of tones, an opus dei run through, a few minutes of some music, then a couple min of a few movies. Ran opus dei at -5 on the reciever for the youtube vid. I have still have yet to get good measurements, but those will come soon.
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post #12 of 39 Old 09-07-2011, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoFinWiley View Post

my 21 is still good, and I might have the most hours out of anyone.

I have watched 6 or 7 full movies and 50+ hours of music. I have given 3 full "demos" to friends which include a minute of tones, an opus dei run through, a few minutes of some music, then a couple min of a few movies. Ran opus dei at -5 on the reciever for the youtube vid. I have still have yet to get good measurements, but those will come soon.

Thats good to hear. what is the setup? Amp, enclosure etc...?

I know it may sound weird but if you have a good driver I bet I know someone that would be willing to give you quite a bit of money for it!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is if you still have the shipping boxes, if not I'm pretty sure they could provide you with one of them too when mach 5's new 21s ship!

Hint hint LOL

It would have to meet the failure testing of course.
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post #13 of 39 Old 09-07-2011, 02:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

Thats good to hear. what is the setup? Amp, enclosure etc...?

I know it may sound weird but if you have a good driver I bet I know someone that would be willing to give you quite a bit of money for it!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is if you still have the shipping boxes, if not I'm pretty sure they could provide you with one of them too!

Hint hint LOL

It would have to meet the failure testing of course.

8.3 ft3 sealed sonotube
BUILD THREAD

It is running off of a 320w @ 4ohm car amp. Cheesy, I know. But it works until I get the real amp. I am guessing the real amp will help on the very low end, but as it is at 320w it plays higher bass into the 120db with no issue, and the LF stuff during movies already knocks people off the couch LOL, soooo i'm not sure how much "louder" I need it. I'm sure I could use help on the "lower" though. The house moves a bit at 10hz, but the driver is still only doin' about 1" p-p, so I know there's more power needed on the low end.

As for the "other" topic, shoot me a pm.


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post #14 of 39 Old 09-07-2011, 03:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoFinWiley View Post

8.3 ft3 sealed sonotube
BUILD THREAD

It is running off of a 320w @ 4ohm car amp. Cheesy, I know. But it works until I get the real amp. I am guessing the real amp will help on the very low end, but as it is at 320w it plays higher bass into the 120db with no issue, and the LF stuff during movies already knocks people off the couch LOL, soooo i'm not sure how much "louder" I need it. I'm sure I could use help on the "lower" though. The house moves a bit at 10hz, but the driver is still only doin' about 1" p-p, so I know there's more power needed on the low end.

As for the "other" topic, shoot me a pm.


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Thanks for the vid!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoFinWiley View Post

Not the best recording, i thought I had an issue on the first recording with my mains enabled, so I did a second one with only the sub. -5db on the receiver (the hardest i pushed it so far). The sub is still loafing around. Need amp.

http://youtu.be/yIjqf8Uxi-0

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post #15 of 39 Old 09-07-2011, 11:25 PM
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I used my 21" Vegas sub in a 5.4cuft sealed test box I had powered by 1 channel of a Face F1600TX for couple of weeks as my only sub. I just moved so the 21" is back in it's shipping box but plan on making a 9 cuft sono sealed to continue testing before making a proper enclosure.

I thought I might have heard it going bad but I just clipped my amp with some damn BD demo.

Odd that no one has posted a bad Vegas sub yet, I tried beating on mine for about as much as I could take, got a headache from all the bass

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post #16 of 39 Old 09-10-2011, 02:45 PM
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I think a lot of them will survive normal use otherwise I wouldn't have sold them.

The issue was the unknowability of how many would survive and how many would fail over what period of time.

Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
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post #17 of 39 Old 09-10-2011, 06:28 PM
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Kevin, check your PM's

You guys are crazy....
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post #18 of 39 Old 09-11-2011, 05:55 AM
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Here's to their long life and performance!

"Live long and prosper"

Cheers!
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post #19 of 39 Old 10-08-2011, 05:01 AM
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I don't know which batch I bought from, but I think I bought it in November of 2009 according to some files I have on the computer. I started smelling the burning of the coils about 8 months ago.

It died of coil failure and am looking for a local builder to repair it. MWA Coils of Arizona may be able to make a new one if the repair company will spend the time.

I'm driving it with the Face Audio T1200TS amplifier, bridged to mono at 4 ohms with 2700 watts of clean power. I don't use it all because I want reserve capacitance for the extreme lows. I used it with common sense through the Reckhorn B1 equalizer with variable bass boost and subsonic filter protection along with full gain control.

My alignment is 13 cu. ft. cabinet and 4 18" AE flat passive radiators loaded to 2100 grams each; 1/2 polyfil, top & bottom treated witn Sonic Barrier for standing wave elimination, 1.25" mdf cabinet construction & 2" bottom. It weighs in between 600 to 750 lbs. 24 x 24 x 62inch dimensions without grill covers. The box tuning frequency models showed 16 hz and the finished testing freq was 15 hz using Linkwitz bass test CD.
LL
LL
LL
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post #20 of 39 Old 10-08-2011, 05:38 AM
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I contacted one company which said they could repair them, see the other vegas sub thread, I cannot remember who they were.

They were referenced on the adire site too i think.
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post #21 of 39 Old 12-01-2011, 12:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfishmike View Post

I don't know which batch I bought from, but I think I bought it in November of 2009 according to some files I have on the computer. I started smelling the burning of the coils about 8 months ago.

It died of coil failure and am looking for a local builder to repair it. MWA Coils of Arizona may be able to make a new one if the repair company will spend the time.

I'm driving it with the Face Audio T1200TS amplifier, bridged to mono at 4 ohms with 2700 watts of clean power. I don't use it all because I want reserve capacitance for the extreme lows. I used it with common sense through the Reckhorn B1 equalizer with variable bass boost and subsonic filter protection along with full gain control.

My alignment is 13 cu. ft. cabinet and 4 18" AE flat passive radiators loaded to 2100 grams each; 1/2 polyfil, top & bottom treated witn Sonic Barrier for standing wave elimination, 1.25" mdf cabinet construction & 2" bottom. It weighs in between 600 to 750 lbs. 24 x 24 x 62inch dimensions without grill covers. The box tuning frequency models showed 16 hz and the finished testing freq was 15 hz using Linkwitz bass test CD.

That is sweet! I think I saw this build on HTS a long time ago
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post #22 of 39 Old 12-01-2011, 12:59 PM
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my bad batch 21" is still going strong. It's in an IB (rear wall mounted currently) but not in its permanent home yet. I still have to frame/finish the dedicated theater area in the basement. Only using it for low frequency to fill in for the lilmike F20s below 20hz range
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post #23 of 39 Old 12-01-2011, 02:08 PM
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Should last a long time that way as long as you don't really heat it up. Glad someone found a use for em =]
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post #24 of 39 Old 12-01-2011, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
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any 21" PR users yet?
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post #25 of 39 Old 12-19-2011, 12:54 AM - Thread Starter
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No more updates? Was there a certificate sent with all drivers reminding you of your confidentiallity agreement?
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post #26 of 39 Old 12-19-2011, 03:27 AM
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It's still working...still need a real amp...still need a job so I can pay for real amp (very close)

going to go berry if i find a smoking deal (<175), new IPR (still unsure about low end roll-off of IPR's), but ideally I want an LG clone.
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post #27 of 39 Old 12-19-2011, 03:41 AM
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Hey mo a guy was selling a 2500 over at the shack for 200 shipped!

BTW mines still in box in garage :S
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post #28 of 39 Old 12-29-2011, 11:02 AM
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My MaelX lasted 5min. The rattle really isn't that loud, and if it was burried in a horn you probably wouldn't hear it but its just in a sealed box so you definitely can. It was in a 7.5 ft^3 sealed box powered by a EP4000 with no boost or HPF. before that it was a monster just playing music. It's no THT in the 30hz to 60hz range but below that it just kills. I think the MaelX sounded better overall everywhere too. It's really too bad they are not available any more. I would buy 8 right now it I could.

I guess I'm going with for 4 lms now, its just that 925 per driver seems ludicrous to me. I know I can spend that money better, in many other ways.

For you guys that still have a MaelX treat them well! We need to find a way to bring them back some how. I feel they were the best output per $ sub available, when they were. My heart goes out to Kevin, he gave it a great run, and a better business man you won't meet. There has just got to be a way to get these drivers back on the market. Does anyone think PE could buy the rights and manufacture them if the demand was great enough?
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post #29 of 39 Old 12-29-2011, 01:04 PM
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The PI18s are pretty similar, as are the Fi Q's, though I'd personally go PI18.
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post #30 of 39 Old 12-29-2011, 02:14 PM
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Anyone got a link to a horn build to bury those which expire?
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