Behringer iNuke NU3000 first impressions (I need replacement fan suggestions!) - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 189 Old 10-21-2011, 06:52 AM
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First and foremost, people in the pro sound business need reliability. They can't afford for amps to crap out on them. Adopting new(er) technology when reliability is unknown is risky. It isn't even the SMPS that would be in question because in theory it is superior. It is the implementation that needs a track record.

Why don't we see it very often yet with home audio? IMO that is a marketing issue. People who buy mega amps want the thing to need a hand truck when delivered. When people spend $1500 on a receiver they don't want it to feel lighter than their smartphone. Old habits die hard.

With that said, there are some very expensive hifi amps and highend pro amps that use SMPS and chip based amps.
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post #92 of 189 Old 10-21-2011, 07:42 AM
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So true....There has been so many debates online with the statements "But it weighs 20lbs, it can not be good "

I used to own Sunfire amps, lots of power in my Sunfire Cinema Grand amp (5ch @ 400Watts). I had an Emotiva XPA-5 for comparisons at the time. One was > 80lbs and one was < 30lbs

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post #93 of 189 Old 10-21-2011, 08:03 AM
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It will be interesting to see how these amps respond to people modfying the cooling system. Obviously they don't need as much airflow, but then again I'm guessing there isn't near as much in there to temporarily absorb heat, and then release...compared to something like an EP.
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post #94 of 189 Old 10-21-2011, 09:48 AM
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the DSP3000 is just borderline on tolerable to me with stock fan. It spins up like a tornado when running hard - but if you are running it hard you'll NEVER hear that fan over the audio levels it's cranking out, it idles back down quick, the only time it's really obnoxious is between songs that aren't crossfaded if you have the volume cranked. I haven't felt the absolute need to mod the fan yet, like I did on the EP4000.

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post #95 of 189 Old 10-21-2011, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
If it's that easy why aren't there a lot more of them?

To my knowledge, not one receiver or multichannel amp uses them, and the benefits are huge.

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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Huge? How so for home use?

Every mfgr appreciates less heat to dispose of, lower cost, lighter weight, and slimmer proportions.

So do the vast majority of consumers.

Noah
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post #96 of 189 Old 10-21-2011, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

If you've actually done any reverse engineering, it's not all that easy and would be easier in most cases to design from scratch. There is no earth shattering new technology or application here.

Sadly, this is not true anymore. I found some reverese engineering CAD software from China that allows you to clone the PCB's pretty accurately. In theory,
the CAD operator won't require any electronic theory knowledge. Because amplifiers are simple, it's really just easier to copy than to design from scratch.



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post #97 of 189 Old 10-21-2011, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

I was thinking the same thing. If this were as easy as making a peanut butter sandwich, why wouldn't we have had eight pound, cool running 3000 watt amps say, ten years ago? I'm more of a marketing minded person than technical, at least when it comes to a class D amp. But there had to be some new development either in a key component, or the control of the comonents. And two of the major brands just happen to decide it's a good idea to develope this, at nearly the same time. The argument that light weight amps arent' worth the cost doesn't fly...if the IPRs and INukes are selling now, I'm sure there would have been a market for them in the past as well.

People in the pro sound business would love to load out a rack full of 8 pound amps vs. 45++ pound amps. Cost is higher, yes...but I've spoken with a few guys with a modest budget that would be happy to pay a bit more if it means taking off that much weight.

High frequency switching power supplies were developed in the car audio industry and made more popular than found in home audio. These power supplies often referred to as "Switch Mode Power Supplies" aka SMPS were difficult to engineer in the 1970's and beyond as nobody really understood the science well enough to execute a product.

George C.Chryssis published a book in the 1980's called "High Frequency Switching Power Supplies: Theory and Design" that is a "bible" for SMPS design
and often still used today for reference.

While we do see SMPS in different applications and the theory of operation is easy to understand, often the average Electrical Engineer coming out of school with their BSEE or MSEE degree still has no clue on how to make a working and reliable product. You have to find a career power supply designer in order to make a good product.

In theory, the SMPS design has a higher chance of failure than a conventional power supply design because the number of semiconductor parts used is much higher. All you need is 2-4 simple semicondutor parts to make a conventional power supply work well and be reliable. But the SMPS bill of material is greater in size. Another thing is that a conventional power supply is more rubust to power
anomalies where an SMPS can "break" if it's not designed with extra protection circuits (more semiconductors).

There is a trade off.

Conventional PS design = Large, heavy, simple.
SMPS design = Small, light, complex.

If you were to build a power supply for a "life support, mission critical" application, you better not be doing SMPS -- analogy -- It's like running Windows operating system vs. Linux



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post #98 of 189 Old 10-21-2011, 04:18 PM
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I saw a comment about a burst test (peak) and from that data they calculated the RMS values. While you can do this translation from peak to rms and visa version, what consumers should know is how long can the amplifier operate if it was tested using an RMS test method before the amplifier complains. Often words like "continuous" are used, continous RMS watts. What does continuous mean

Does it mean 1 week continous? My amplifier was playing tests tones for 1 week continous and I calculated the rms wattage.

Could continuous also mean 24 hours? If so, why not 1 hour? why not 1 second ?

Is continous RMS wattage (for 1 second) also a true statement ?

Why not 1 millisecond ?

You get the idea

There are statements made in amplifier testing and manufacturer literature that don't tell the whole story.



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post #99 of 189 Old 10-21-2011, 08:26 PM
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I always thought. It meantg long enough 4 the amp to reach thermal equalibrium.
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post #100 of 189 Old 11-14-2011, 05:54 AM
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I pulled the inuke dsp 3000 out of the bottom of my av rack and just put it on top and tried to watch a movie - it's MUCH too loud on top. So your mileage may vary as to whether you need a replacement fan or not. I can handle the fan noise at the bottom of my rack, but it isn't tolerable in open air for movie use.

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post #101 of 189 Old 11-14-2011, 02:07 PM
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What is dynamic eq?
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post #102 of 189 Old 11-14-2011, 06:23 PM
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By the way - the Inuke DSP 3000 uses a standard 80mm 12 volt .4 amp fan. So finding a replacement will be easy. Just browse over one of the dozens of best silent 80mm fan in every single PC forum and you'll have some good suggestions.

The EP4000 by contrast uses a 24 volt fan, and it's a bit more difficult to guess on a unknown model.

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post #103 of 189 Old 11-14-2011, 08:36 PM
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80x80x25 or 25.5?
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post #104 of 189 Old 11-14-2011, 09:16 PM
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Found this one which had a decent cfm to noise ratio

http://www.coolerguys.com/840556093329.html
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post #105 of 189 Old 11-14-2011, 09:31 PM
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I'm playing with the dsp software, coould someone explain what is dynamic eq?
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post #106 of 189 Old 11-15-2011, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datranz View Post

What is dynamic eq?

Quote:
Originally Posted by datranz View Post

I'm playing with the dsp software, coould someone explain what is dynamic eq?

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=dynamic+eq

Dynamic EQ intends to modify sound to sound the same to the human ear (subjectively) regardless of volume. At lower levels it increases bass, and tames highs, and increases center and surround channel volume levels. I find it makes my subs FAR too potent on my setup.

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post #107 of 189 Old 11-15-2011, 04:55 AM
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post #108 of 189 Old 11-15-2011, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=dynamic+eq

Dynamic EQ intends to modify sound to sound the same to the human ear (subjectively) regardless of volume. At lower levels it increases bass, and tames highs, and increases center and surround channel volume levels. I find it makes my subs FAR too potent on my setup.

That sounds like a description of Audessy Dynamic EQ. Considering the Behringer was designed as a pro sound reinforcement amp, the likelihood of it doing the same is remote. Did you get that from the manual? I can't see one to download at the Behringer site.
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post #109 of 189 Old 11-16-2011, 10:53 AM
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So I am guessing these aren't tracking amps like the lab gruppen clones. Bosso at one time had a really good post showing the difference between tracking and old ironamps



Also judging from the posts I don't think anyone has yet determined if they have a hpf on them.
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post #110 of 189 Old 11-16-2011, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stgdz View Post

So I am guessing these aren't tracking amps like the lab gruppen clones. Bosso at one time had a really good post showing the difference between tracking and old ironamps

They appear to be an AB poweramp with a simple SMPS.



Quote:
Originally Posted by stgdz View Post

Also judging from the posts I don't think anyone has yet determined if they have a hpf on them.

Are they DC coupled? Extremely likely that they are not, because with the amp's designed use (SR) any faulty upstream component outputting evan a modest amount of DC could then damage speakers downstream. The cap used to block DC will form a HPF as a minimum.

Dunno if the DSP in those versions can do a HPF suitable for most HT subs.
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post #111 of 189 Old 11-16-2011, 11:47 AM
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they have a variable HPF setting dial in the software that bottoms at 20hz. You can download the DSP software and play around to see what's available.

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post #112 of 189 Old 11-26-2011, 05:30 PM
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Any word on subsonic performance of the Amp itself? Does it roll-off below 20Hz or does output remain flat well below that?
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post #113 of 189 Old 12-04-2011, 08:24 PM
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Given the RMS on the NU3000DSP I would pick up the Crown XLS 1500 DriveCore for the same money.

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #114 of 189 Old 12-13-2011, 04:48 PM
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I'm curious to see a second test of the power on one of these. I'm getting married in Hawaii so it'd be nice to pack 3000 peak watts in my suitcase rather then renting equipment.
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post #115 of 189 Old 04-13-2012, 12:54 AM
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I am new to all this, so I hope to get some help from you people.

I have six Truth 2031P 4ohm 150w nominal speakers and
one VP1800S 8ohm 18" sub nominal 400w, peak 1600w.
I want to connect all of this with iNUKE NU3000DSP.
I plan to use B channel for sub for low freq upto 100htz.
Now I am left with A channel.how to connect six 2031P speaker 4 ohm impedance each to A channel? What comb of series and parallel? how not to exceed 300w input to each speaker?
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post #116 of 189 Old 04-13-2012, 05:57 AM
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Are you sure you want to connect those Truth 2031Ps to the iNuke? If you are doing HT, then connect them to the LRC and surround outputs from your AV receiver instead. If you really do want to give up sterero and surround and drive them from a single amp channel, then wire two sets of three of them in series for 12 ohms for each string and then connect the two strings in parallel for a net impedance of 6 ohms. The power will divide nominally equally among all the speakers. Just don't turn the volume up past the point of audible distortion!
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post #117 of 189 Old 04-13-2012, 10:57 AM
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Thanks Jack for the solution.
Initially one of the so called audiophile at my place said that HT receiver can drive 2031P. I was planning to buy onkyo TX NR 1009, but the onkyo guy said that these speakers are too demanding and will not be a good configuration for long term.
Now I already have six 2031P and I had VP1800S, so after looking at Behringer amp remote software and NU3000DSP, I thought that channel B can drive VP1800S passive sub alright and from channel A six 2031P may be connected.

The software also provides for limiting the output which i can use to protect these 2031P.

If I make 3 parallel pair and connect pairs in series, at 6 ohm NU3000 gives roughly about 600 w per channel, I can limit it to 300w.

1> Am I thinking in the right direction?
2> In this configuration will each speaker will get the same 300w peaks or some will get more and other speakers will get less?
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post #118 of 189 Old 04-13-2012, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raulchoudhary View Post

I am new to all this, so I hope to get some help from you people.

I have six Truth 2031P 4ohm 150w nominal speakers and
one VP1800S 8ohm 18" sub nominal 400w, peak 1600w.
I want to connect all of this with iNUKE NU3000DSP.
I plan to use B channel for sub for low freq upto 100htz.
Now I am left with A channel.how to connect six 2031P speaker 4 ohm impedance each to A channel? What comb of series and parallel? how not to exceed 300w input to each speaker?

If the 2031p's are 150rms and the onkyo puts out 135watts per channel they should be fine ran off of the reciever. Then you won't loose surround sounds and stereo sounds from it all.
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post #119 of 189 Old 04-13-2012, 01:42 PM
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That onkyo receiver will run those speakers fine.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #120 of 189 Old 04-13-2012, 02:06 PM
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Thanks Jstslamd & Archaea

If 2 of you say so, I will buy NR1009.
Only problem is I will have to buy active sub/subs too.
Much more cost for less powerful setup, but with surround sound,
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