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post #181 of 356 Old 05-04-2012, 08:03 PM
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Most of my work is with HF guns, and it usually requires more grits and compounding to get right, to get past the orange peel the lower quality guns spray, as well as burning through more material as there is more overspray with lesser guns.

That being said, I do OK with the cheap stuff, and don't spray so often as to offset the high price of a quality gun. I simply don't spray very often or burn through much material (usually less than a gallon or two per year), and can use the leftover time sanding/polishing, and laying down more coats.

If you are spending over $500-$1000 on simply gallons upon gallons of primers/fillers/effects/finishes, then you would have use for a more efficient gun(s) that can lay down a near flawless primer/build/grainfill, color, effect, or gloss coat.

JSS
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post #182 of 356 Old 05-05-2012, 06:10 AM
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That devil boss kit I was talking about is on eBay for 160 bucks for 3 guns ( primer topcoat and touch up gun) w/regulators. And they are much better quality than the HF guns.
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post #183 of 356 Old 05-05-2012, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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I say spray, even if it is with a cheaper gun.
When you begin spraying your projects, you will be amazed at how fast you can apply the finish.
When you later move up to a better gun, you will be amazed at how little sanding you have to do to smooth out the finish.

The first time I sprayed, it was with a small touch-up gun and I was immediately hooked, even though it was not a very good gun.

Everything Jstslamd said is spot-on and while I haven't tried Iwata's Top Guns, my most used go-to gun is an Iwata.

Joe--you will see your night-and-day difference in your setup, rather than between guns. You can get reasonably satisfactory results with a cheap gun with the proper setup or unacceptable results with even the best gun and a bad setup. You need to regulate the air at the gun, filter and dry the air and filter the liquid. The gun needs to be cleaned and maintained properly, as well. Don't let these things scare you. It's all an important part of getting the best performance out of your gun.

As Jstslamd said, you can get a good price for a used gun.
Or, get a cheap gun and sand more.
But by all means, spray. You'll be glad you did.
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post #184 of 356 Old 05-05-2012, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jstslamd View Post

That devil boss kit I was talking about is on eBay for 160 bucks for 3 guns ( primer topcoat and touch up gun) w/regulators. And they are much better quality than the HF guns.

Hehe, Devil Boss. That is a good deal, though. Great find, Jstslamd!
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post #185 of 356 Old 05-05-2012, 07:14 AM
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This is the best thread In a while. Thanks everyone for the great questions and answer.
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post #186 of 356 Old 05-05-2012, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PassingInterest View Post


Hehe, Devil Boss. That is a good deal, though. Great find, Jstslamd!

Haha I didn't even mean to do that but now that I see that it's pretty funny. Devilbiss is what I meant.
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post #187 of 356 Old 05-05-2012, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PassingInterest View Post




Joe--you will see your night-and-day difference in your setup, rather than between guns. You can get reasonably satisfactory results with a cheap gun with the proper setup or unacceptable results with even the best gun and a bad setup. You need to regulate the air at the gun, filter and dry the air and filter the liquid.

This is all true and it is ok to regulate at the gun but it's is better to regulate at the at the compressor and run no regulator at the gun.
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post #188 of 356 Old 05-06-2012, 05:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jstslamd View Post

This is all true and it is ok to regulate at the gun but it's is better to regulate at the at the compressor and run no regulator at the gun.

That's interesting.
I regulate at the tank and again at the gun.
I run the one at the tank a little high and dial it in at the gun.
I saw some real improvement when I added the one on the gun and took this approach a couple of years ago and I never looked back or questioned it.

Now you've got me wondering if there is a problem with the regulator I have at the tank. That, or I was just too new at spraying and didn't quite have the hang of dialing it in properly yet. I'll have to experiment this summer.
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post #189 of 356 Old 05-06-2012, 08:17 AM
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I'll give you a quick break down and example of how I do things.

I dial my compressor regulator about 3-4 lbs high and used the cheater valve on the gun just completely dial it in. The reason regulators at the gun can be a negative factor is that it starves the gun for air volume. The pressure is there but can quickly run out of volume. So leaving that pathway of air as open as possible is best.

Another cheap improvement is switching all of your fittings and couplings to HVLP fittings. This will improve how the gun atomizes and transfers the material rather than just blowing it out at high pressure and into the air. For instance I painted a fender for a friend of mine last weekend that I thought came out a bit pealy. I thought to myself man this was not what kind of job that I'm used to. Then I have a bit of a mishap with said fender and had to redo the whole thing. I originally used one of my airlines with high pressure fitting and didn't really like the outcome. The next time I painted it I used an airline with the HVLP ends on it. Man what a night and day difference. Everything came out smoother 10 fold. I think I've relearned a lesson that I seem to
Forget about every so often. The more air volume you can feed and HVLP ( high volume low pressure) paint gun the better it works. If you need to see for yourself. Try a side by side comparison.
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post #190 of 356 Old 05-06-2012, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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What is an HVLP fitting and how does it differ from a non-HVLP fitting?
How would I know it if I looked at it?
By the way, I use 3/8" fittings, like the ones on the right below.
Some 1/4" fittings are shown on the left for reference.




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I dial my compressor regulator about 3-4 lbs high and used the cheater valve on the gun just completely dial it in.

Oh, I see. We're actually doing the same thing, just a little bit differently.
You use the valve on the gun to dial it in and I use a gun mounted regulator/gauge.
You have a good point about trying to avoid restricting airflow.
Just out of curiosity, do you use a gauge on your gun, or do you dial it in with a few test sprays?
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post #191 of 356 Old 05-06-2012, 11:53 AM
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The fittings on the right are an HVLP fitting. They are just an older style. As far as dialing in my gun I've been doing this so long I dial in by ear and yes pulling the trigger a few times to confirm that I have an even pattern. I also sometimes leave my cheater valve all of the way open until I need to lay a drop or orientation coat and then I close it up a tiny bit. But leave the air flow open and much as possible is the ticket.
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post #192 of 356 Old 05-06-2012, 08:00 PM
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Great discussion guys. Appreciate the info.

Glad you brought up the regulation question PI - i could have sworn i remembered you saying you regulate at the gun itself and i was curious why Jstslamd seemed to advice against it.

I've started a new project. I'm a long way off from any finishing work but it's still constantly in mind. Keep meaning to check out a new HF location that opened near me. When i finally get over there maybe i'll grab one of their guns and give it a try.

Can anyone recommend a place to buy finishes for reasonable prices? I've picked up my shellac and other supplies from Home Depot in the past, but i went to pick up a gallon the other day and it was close to $50. Seemed pretty steep.


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post #193 of 356 Old 05-08-2012, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowpolyjoe View Post

Can anyone recommend a place to buy finishes for reasonable prices?

I'd like to know the answer to this as well.

Some Habitat for Humanity stores (called re-stores) sometimes get in some cans of finishes, which they sell for cheap. But, that's real hit-or-miss and I don't know of any other great price outlets for finishes.
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post #194 of 356 Old 05-08-2012, 08:55 AM
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Are you fellas in the tristate area by any chance ? If not you can go to your local bodyshop and ask them where their supplier located. The suppliers usually sell to the public.
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post #195 of 356 Old 05-08-2012, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jstslamd View Post

Are you fellas in the tristate area by any chance ? If not you can go to your local bodyshop and ask them where their supplier located. The suppliers usually sell to the public.

Great tip. I'll have to try that.
I'm in the Lone-Star State, by the way.
I believe Joe is an East Coast guy.
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post #196 of 356 Old 05-08-2012, 10:48 AM
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I have places coming out my a** around here. There has to be places around there. You could do a local google search too for automotive refinishing supplies in your area.
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post #197 of 356 Old 05-08-2012, 11:22 AM
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yeah, i'm in north jersey. would be cool if you have any recommendations for my area. i probably wouldn't be buying in bulk though, not sure if that limits my options.


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post #198 of 356 Old 05-08-2012, 12:14 PM
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How far north in jersey ? Maybe I can talk to some of my reps to give you locations.
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post #199 of 356 Old 05-08-2012, 12:17 PM
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Their is some things that you can order online that are good to use. The next thing I want to try when priming mdf is polyester primer. A company called evercoat makes one called feather fill. It's a super high build primer. Some people refer to it as body filler in a gun. I'm interested to see how much it fills. The high build I use at work took a good 6-7 coats to fill the mdf and give it some build.
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post #200 of 356 Old 05-08-2012, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Any idea what tip size for spraying the Feather Fill, jstslamd?
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post #201 of 356 Old 05-08-2012, 01:26 PM
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I would use atleast a 1.6. Preferably a 1.8
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post #202 of 356 Old 05-08-2012, 06:19 PM
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i'm in passaic county - maybe 15 miles west of the lincoln tunnel. if you know a good supplier in my area that's cool, but don't trouble yourself over it. i figured somebody might post a link to some online suppliers.


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post #203 of 356 Old 05-11-2012, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I polished the bottom before I thought to grab the camera, that's why you see some gravity-defying runs in this shot.

I began by dry-sanding with P-400.




Then I used Rubbing Compound.




Then Polish.




The photos came out better than I hoped, considering it is very overcast today.




I machine-applied wax, then hand buffed it.



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post #204 of 356 Old 05-11-2012, 01:49 PM
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damn, that's a beautiful finish


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post #205 of 356 Old 05-11-2012, 02:27 PM
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Looking good!!
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post #206 of 356 Old 05-11-2012, 03:37 PM
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Damn... Even though it goes without saying, I'm going to say it anyway: Beautiful job! You're obviously very skilled and have done a fantastic job on everything. I also love your attitude toward helping all the rest of us who may not have the skills or knowledge for these things.

The post that demonstrates this:
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... I'm actually glad this happened, because it gives me a chance to demonstrate a solution, which might be useful to others, should this ever happen to anyone else.

Awesome. Good on you for such a great attitude, and keep up the good work!

"Measure twice, then measure again. Only then should you even THINK about cutting."

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post #207 of 356 Old 05-11-2012, 09:05 PM
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What is rubbing compound?
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post #208 of 356 Old 05-12-2012, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, guys!

Ezcl--Thanks, man. I'm happy to help bring others up to speed.

TC--Rubbing Compound and Polishing Compound are like liquid sandpaper, with Rubbing Compound being the coarser of the two at about 1200 grit or so, roughly. There are actually many grades of coarseness. An Automotive Finishing Pro like jstslamd could give you a better rundown of the different compounds than I could. Oh, and there are some that break down as you use them, becoming more fine as you go.

I meant to get some shots of the cabs after I finished polishing them, but the sky opened up and dumped a bunch of rain as I finished waxing them. So, more photos will follow later. My indoors photography skills are not very good.
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post #209 of 356 Old 05-12-2012, 11:48 AM
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If I didn't mention before my name is Jason. Just so people know. As far as compound goes you could look at it as a liquid sandpaper. Basically it is an abrasive liquid that polished out anywhere from 1200 to 3000 grit sand scratches depending on how aggressive of compound you buy. For wet sanding and polishing a simple and highly recommended brand and system is the 3m perfect-it 2. The has three easy steps and the buffing pads to go with it. It is guaranteed to give you a highly polished finish. It is the product I live by when buffing cars. I could smooth the surface with 1500 and the back that up with some 2000 grit paper. Then start with step one which is the compound. The other 2 step are a swirl mark remover and a machine polish that make every even and rich looking. Of you need any other info please ask or pm me.
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post #210 of 356 Old 05-12-2012, 05:14 PM
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Thanks to you both!

So you go 400, 1500, rubbing compound, polish.
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