AESpeakers TD Series group buy!!! - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 768 Old 10-17-2011, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post


Maybe John can post why anyone would buy the upgrade and what its purpose is.

From all my reading on the topic, the Appollo upgrade are for those pushing this driver to its Max SPL limits. Normal home operation would have zero benefits from the Apollo upgrade.

FWIW, I had TD12S apollo upgrades and standard TD12S. There was zero difference between them for any of my applications.

Ricci spending $$ on the upgrade because its a live application where higher SPL is required.

Well, speaking for myself, for the 10-20$ I misunderstood it to be, I figured it was a no-brainer. For 70$ I will not be going that route.

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post #302 of 768 Old 10-17-2011, 03:54 PM
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"TD18H is normally $449 and the apollo upgrade would be $100. That is $549 and with the discount $384.30. Then add the $20 custom VC charge so it would come in at $404.30."

that is a fantastic price. i wish that i could participate.

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post #303 of 768 Old 10-17-2011, 04:10 PM
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Apparently the apollo upgrade 'linearises inductance' IIRC. I think when I bought my TD15M-A the idea was that this would improve upper midrange performance.

Not sure how correct and/or noticeable this is.
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post #304 of 768 Old 10-17-2011, 04:14 PM
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Here is a brief explanation of the apollo upgrade from the website.

http://www.aespeakers.com/Apollo.php

Whether you need it or not, I will leave that up to those purchasing. For some it's looked at as a lot of extra money. I have others using $30,000 feastrex field coil drivers or $10,000 cogent compression drivers with the TD woofers. To them it's nearly like deciding whether you want the large fry and drink with your value meal. The apollo upgrade does also add 1/2" to the depth of all of the woofers with the exception of the TD6 where it adds only 1/4".

I will be getting the complete list of customers from Dave tonight. The response was really much higher than anticipated with over 200 drivers total. It's taking him a little longer to get the list complied than we expected. We'll start getting invoices out in the morning and it will probably take more than a day to get through them all as well.

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post #305 of 768 Old 10-17-2011, 04:27 PM
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So by linear extrapolation, ASSUMING a 5% increase in the discount rate per 50 unit jump, we're up to, what? 45% discount!!!!

LOL, I kid, I kid...
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post #306 of 768 Old 10-17-2011, 04:46 PM
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Looks like I'll have to sit out this one.

Stupid JBL drivers and me needing to hoard them all.

Have fun, guys!

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post #307 of 768 Old 10-17-2011, 07:15 PM
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Well I put in an order for 3 td15ms and 4 of the td6ms. Hope someone's got something to build with them...

Probably do the Seaton ones if nobody has the raal/td6/td115.
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post #308 of 768 Old 10-17-2011, 08:09 PM
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Well crap, had to work late today and got home and see the ride has come to an end. Since the group buy ended today it seemed logical that the deadline would be midnight -- that's what I get for not reading the small print. Was going to get (3) TD18's to put under BMS 4590's.

I'll probably just go ahead and run the dual 2226J's as originally planned (70-350Hz) , but does anybody want to rub it in about how much better the Lambda drivers would perform?
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post #309 of 768 Old 10-17-2011, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post

Well crap, had to work late today and got home and see the ride has come to an end. Since the group buy ended today it seemed logical that the deadline would be midnight -- that's what I get for not reading the small print. Was going to get (3) TD18's to put under BMS 4590's.

Send them an email, what do you have to loose.
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post #310 of 768 Old 10-17-2011, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
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...does anybody want to rub it in about how much better the Lambda drivers would perform?

My guess is hardly at all,if any, given the low XO freq.

Noah
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post #311 of 768 Old 10-17-2011, 09:27 PM
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My guess is hardly at all,if any, given the low XO freq.

You're probably right Noah...it's not like the JBL's are chopped liver.

Plus, I kind of like the dual 15" approach...and all the more since they are already here. Going to do something along the lines of a Tannoy VQ60...but with bigger parts.
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post #312 of 768 Old 10-18-2011, 05:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post

I'll probably just go ahead and run the dual 2226J's as originally planned (70-350Hz) , but does anybody want to rub it in about how much better the Lambda drivers would perform?

Nope, you are just fine. The 2226Js are incredible mid-bass choices. I have a couple of those myself

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post #313 of 768 Old 10-18-2011, 05:49 AM
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I'd say it dual 2226J vs a single TD18 probably goes to the 2226J's but it would too close to call, especially at those frequencies. The dual 2226's give you about 30% more Sd than the single TD18 and that is tough to beat. Beyond that, the 2226 is cleaner higher up.

The TD18 would do better than the the 2226Js below 40-50hz and works well as a vented HT/music sub tuned around 20-25hz or a PA sub tuned a little higher. THe TD18 has more Vd, but from 70-350hz Vd isn't a limiting factor in a home environment for these woofers.

Dual TD15M vs dual 2226J? Let's just say I know someone making that change.
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post #314 of 768 Old 10-18-2011, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Nope, you are just fine. The 2226Js are incredible mid-bass choices. I have a couple of those myself

I know you have a couple six of those Doug -- waiting for you to get the midbass horn done so I can rip off your design!

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Dual TD15M vs dual 2226J? Let's just say I know someone making that change.

And for those about to rock, we salute you.

Wish I could have joined the party, but as understanding as my wife is, I think she very well may have slain me if I ordered six more huge driver boxes. I have a real serious problem with buying audio junk but not paring down the hoard every now and then.
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post #315 of 768 Old 10-18-2011, 08:56 PM
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Just got invoice for my orders.

Those that send in orders, check your email.
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post #316 of 768 Old 10-19-2011, 06:31 AM
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Well I'm in for 7 TD15Ms for my yet to be started new theater. Still undecided on the CD/horn combo, but with drivers likely not shipping until December I have time to figure that out. Looking forward to all the build threads that will come from this group buy, should be exciting!

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post #317 of 768 Old 10-19-2011, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I know you have a couple six of those Doug -- waiting for you to get the midbass horn done so I can rip off your design!


You are going to be waiting a long time since I decide to just go dual sealed boxes instead. The horn build was just too time consuming for me since it takes extra care in getting all those angle cuts right. Maybe some day.

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post #318 of 768 Old 10-19-2011, 09:18 AM
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You're better off sealed, Doug.

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post #319 of 768 Old 10-19-2011, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I couldnt figure out what the midbass horn design was accomplishing other then a massive headache for me, I scrapped it in the first 4 hours of cutting when I screwed up two angled piece and then chucked a piece of wood at the wall for no reason then to clear my head

Dual JBL 2226s gave me 100dB sensitivity already.

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post #320 of 768 Old 10-19-2011, 10:32 AM
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Yup and you use 'flanking subs' (or at least, agree with the use of them) so I think you've got one hell of a system brewin' up there.

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post #321 of 768 Old 10-19-2011, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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you've got one hell of a system brewin'

yeah, but its taking as long as it takes to create 10 year old scotch....

I wouldn't mind time freezing for about a week Just to have enough time to finish off bigger portions of the project.

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post #322 of 768 Old 10-19-2011, 10:49 AM
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yeah, but its taking as long as it takes to create 10 year old scotch....

I wouldn't mind time freezing for about a week Just to have enough time to finish off bigger portions of the project.

I hear ya. Mine is stretching on to about 2 years now. That's what it takes to make the 'Ultimate System'.

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post #323 of 768 Old 10-19-2011, 11:01 AM
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I hear ya. Mine is stretching on to about 2 years now. That's what it takes to make the 'Ultimate System'.

+2...I've been trying to figure out what the hell I'm going to end up with in my HT for so long that I've been using the "temporary" stop gap for almost 4 years now and barely made any actual progress towards making a decision. I finally ordered a bunch of AE TD15M drivers and I have decided on 2 ways at least. Now I have to figure out whether to go with active, passive, what horn, what CD, etc. I may just end up with Mark's cabinets to save myself a half year of building the cabs. I hope to have something complete by this time next year.

BTW what is the hold up Scott? Don't you have a game plan and all of the drivers already?
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post #324 of 768 Old 10-20-2011, 11:07 AM
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+2...I've been trying to figure out what the hell I'm going to end up with in my HT for so long that I've been using the "temporary" stop gap for almost 4 years now and barely made any actual progress towards making a decision. I finally ordered a bunch of AE TD15M drivers and I have decided on 2 ways at least. Now I have to figure out whether to go with active, passive, what horn, what CD, etc. I may just end up with Mark's cabinets to save myself a half year of building the cabs. I hope to have something complete by this time next year.

BTW what is the hold up Scott? Don't you have a game plan and all of the drivers already?

Ahhh... so many choices. Your system sure aint no slouch. It would be pretty cool to see what you have to upgrade from what you have now in your HT room.

Hahaha. Yeah, I am laggin' like a mutha.

Pretty much most of the hold up is related to the all mighty dollar. I seem to keep convincing myself that I should hold out for that 'better, more expensive' part XYZ. Also I've been on the fence about the LG amps but they are right in that performance/price point that works for me so just saving up for that. Which also started out as, "I'll get one 14k for the subs and just use Berry's for the mains.... my new uber mains. Wait. Ugh. Wait a little longer, save and get the 10kQ for the uber mains. Yup. *tick tick tick* Sigh."

Another thing holding me back was that I could not quite 'finalize' the whole system. See, I'm not just making new speakers but also new subs, new screen, adding acoustic treatment and rerouting all the source/audio components to the opposite side of the room in the closet and all that stuff. It's an entire project. A big upgrade. Coming about to find the best way to execute everything in one big swoop and get everything at least 95% there on the first try... it's pretty hard to do all this by myself so it's taking some time and taking quite a toll on me in more than one way.

Currently awaiting someone to buy a Spirometer from me on eBay which should give my finances a healthy injection. After that, I order the final parts. The amps and crossovers. Then I just gotta tear everything down and rebuild with all new stuff. Almost there!

Thanks for asking.

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post #325 of 768 Old 10-20-2011, 11:24 AM
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Scott-

You are putting together mains with 4 2226's each and some sort of high efficiency horn up top, right? That will have 100db+ sensitivity. Unless you live in a commercial theater, I'd imagine you could probably do fine with some tiny chip amps. There isn't much reason to go with LG's for the mains, IMO.
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post #326 of 768 Old 10-20-2011, 11:39 AM
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There's always a reason. Headroom. I want gobs and gobs of effortless, clean output for the entire digital audio bandwidth.

Plus, if I didn't get the most appropriate amp for the drivers, I'd be sitting there thinking of things I need to 'upgrade'. I don't want to think 'upgrade' for a looooonnnggg time once I install this stuff. It also would make it easier for me to transition to a much, much larger room with zero needed changes in hardware. Epic.

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post #327 of 768 Old 10-20-2011, 11:42 AM
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A 10w chip amp would give you the headroom you need...seriously. Anything beyond that is not headroom, but a paperweight.

Slap them together with 3 Dayton DTA-100's for $100ea and see how it goes. Upgrade amps when the funds are available.

Edit: Who knows, the tiny chip amp might actually sound better than the huge pro amp in this case.
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post #328 of 768 Old 10-20-2011, 11:45 AM
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I've already got the amps for the highs so I'm waiting to get the larger LG clone amps for the bass. They would all want that LG power, me thinks.

I know what you're saying though so I'm on the same page. For others, maybe that would be a good way to start. For me, I'd like to pave my own way and rip up something super cereal.

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post #329 of 768 Old 10-20-2011, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post

A 10w chip amp would give you the headroom you need...seriously. Anything beyond that is not headroom, but a paperweight.

Slap them together with 3 Dayton DTA-100's for $100ea and see how it goes. Upgrade amps when the funds are available.

Edit: Who knows, the tiny chip amp might actually sound better than the huge pro amp in this case.

This is not to challenge, but to learn why a 10w amp would be sufficient for a 100dB sensitivity driver? Considering my upcoming build with the TD drivers I just ordered it's a topic that I've been thinking about. At a 12ft distance to the MLP, my back-of-the-napkin calculations say that it would require about 50w to reach reference of 105 dB(disregarding potential and variable room gain).

Am I calculating incorrectly?

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post #330 of 768 Old 10-20-2011, 01:38 PM
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You want to mate great drivers with crummy chip amps? Really? I suppose it's ok if the choice was to have sound vs. no sound, but if requires money to invest in chip amps, I would avoid it. There is more to sound systems than to just looking at watts, that's where people fail the most. They need to understand the inner workings to better understand how headroom is achieved.



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