AESpeakers TD Series group buy!!! - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 768 Old 09-30-2011, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Probably won't see the cabinets until later next week. The "CNC pics" were from the shop of my cabinet builder who will be building and delivering these and a few other cabinets. The specific pictures are from a large quantity SubMersive build.

Thanks Mark. I misinterpreted the quoted comment.

Can you give us general idea of the cab's dimension?
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post #62 of 768 Old 09-30-2011, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

Thanks Mark. I misinterpreted the quoted comment.

Can you give us general idea of the cab's dimension?

The front view of the sealed speaker is a simple rectangle that is a total of 20" wide and 30" tall (yes, substantial ). There is some shape to the footprint that should make it visually interesting along with some acoustic benefit totaling only 10" in depth + magnetic grill.

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post #63 of 768 Old 09-30-2011, 12:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

The front view of the sealed speaker is a simple rectangle that is a total of 20" wide and 30" tall (yes, substantial ). There is some shape to the footprint that should make it visually interesting along with some acoustic benefit totaling only 10" in depth + magnetic grill.

Beautiful. This is a TD15M 2-way, yes? Are you looking at a smaller TD12M model as well?
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post #64 of 768 Old 09-30-2011, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

The front view of the sealed speaker is a simple rectangle that is a total of 20" wide and 30" tall (yes, substantial ). There is some shape to the footprint that should make it visually interesting along with some acoustic benefit totaling only 10" in depth + magnetic grill.

Would this cabinet accommodate the SEOS 18 too?
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post #65 of 768 Old 09-30-2011, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiGBADDABOOM View Post

Beautiful. This is a TD15M 2-way, yes? Are you looking at a smaller TD12M model as well?


From M. Seaton;
Quote:


I started with the 15" as the bang/buck and overall performance is more impressive, and the off axis difference of the 12" vs. 15" is not huge in the 1-2kHz range where we care about in this case (maybe 3dB difference at 40 deg). John and Nick before him have repeatedly noted that the 15" has the nicest behavior at the upper octaves. The cost difference is small between the drivers, and I expect the cost difference in the boxes will be small as well, which basically leaves the biggest difference being size... Go big or go home.

Quote:


The real question is if an ~11.5" C-C distance is significantly better than a ~13.125 C-C distance. The difference is barely more than an 1/8th octave of change, while the piston area yields 4dB greater headroom, along with greater sensitivity.

Quote:


If there is sufficient interest, I see no problem with at minimum offering a cabinet for a TD12 + horn where the cabinet can likely shrink 1-2" in the width and 4" in the height. That said, I have no intent of offering a dozen different cabinets of the similar concept, as I'd much prefer to get a few well polished. Mark Seaton


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post #66 of 768 Old 09-30-2011, 03:47 PM
 
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Thanks FOH. Yeah, it's the height that's rough for us with large non-AT screens. Fitting that center channel under. Otherwise I'd love the 30"x20"x10" form factor, go big or go home is right!
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post #67 of 768 Old 09-30-2011, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


The real question is if an ~11.5" C-C distance is significantly better than a ~13.125 C-C distance. The difference is barely more than an 1/8th octave of change, while the piston area yields 4dB greater headroom, along with greater sensitivity.

I enjoy these POVs, I get trashed for argue CTC isnt the most important issue sometimes but if Mark Seaton is posted it then who is going to argue I love validation of re-hashing old discussions.

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post #68 of 768 Old 09-30-2011, 04:07 PM
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So what's everyone thinking of picking up for themselves?

I mentioned it earlier... only slightly on the fence about it but I am considering six TD18's.


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post #69 of 768 Old 09-30-2011, 06:09 PM
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It really depends on what Mark Seaton's design ends up costing. If it's too much more than the parts to put together a 3pi, I'll probably end up buying the 3x TD12S
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post #70 of 768 Old 09-30-2011, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiGBADDABOOM View Post

Beautiful. This is a TD15M 2-way, yes? Are you looking at a smaller TD12M model as well?

They will be 2 way designs intended for use with a subwoofer. I'm really not looking to make endless variations of the same concept, as the effort tends to gets too watered down and never really dialed in. The difference in a 15" and 12" based design around the QSC horn might bring the face dimensions down to ~17" x 25" vs. 20" x 30" for this cabinet layout. Offering a cabinet for other driver and horn sizes is not terribly difficult, but I won't make any promises on crossover designs.

While there will be overlap, the formal kit offerings will be a fully separate operation and branding from the cabinets. Those buying the cabinets will have free reign on parts they load in (ie TD15X, H, & M all can work well and drop right into this box). Anyone can be up and running in a weekend with 3 iNukeDSP amps or a DCX-2496 and 6 amp channels. The passive options are something I will be working on over the coming months.

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post #71 of 768 Old 09-30-2011, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_E_Janowitz View Post

One of the reasons I agreed to do the group buy is really that it allows me to get things in a better position to be deliverable in the future as well. The larger quantity of DIY orders coming in at once allows me the opportunity to get Tom coming to work here. This is something we've been planning for over a year but the timing just hasn't been right. With a large amount of orders coming at one time and money to be collected, it really gives me a boost to get him started.

Secondly, the current process for making TD woofers starts with ordering steel from the US. While this has allowed me to get drivers out, it is not efficient. A piece of 6" diameter round bar stock and a piece of 2" diameter round bar stock are combined to make each T-yoke. There is nearly an hour of manual machining time to turn these 2 pieces into a completed T-yoke with copper added. The top plates are made from a piece of 6" bar stock as well. There is at least a half hour of machining into each top plate as well. When I have 100 T-yokes and 100 top plates to make, that accounts for almost a month of full time machining if I'm doing nothing else. With the rest of the daily work load factored in, that can easily stretch to two months. To give you an idea of the amount of work done, imagine drilling a hole through 8feet of solid steel with a 1/2" bit, then a 1" bit, and then a 1-3/4" bit. That is just the first step in the process. The longest lead times end up happening when someone orders just as I run out of T-yokes and all the machining is ahead of me.

The same T-yoke can be forged as one piece and rough machined in China for less cost than the raw steel plate in the US. The quality of the steel is as good or better than the US steel. The main benefit though is in the time savings. All that is required is the final tolerance work on the critical dimensions and the application of the copper. This takes around 5 minutes per T-yoke. It takes about 2 minutes per top plate to bore the ID to correct tolerances. The time is cut to 7minutes per woofer instead of 90 minutes. This is around 12 hours of machining time vs 150 hours to do parts for 100 woofers.

The group buy allows me to get the steel in from China so it can be quickly machined for the orders from the group buy. At the same time it allows me to order extra steel so I can keep parts in stock in the future. Not only should I be able to deliver the group buy woofers quickly, but this should allow me to keep things deliverable in the future as well.

There won't be too much extra work with multiple payments and international shipping. I would guess that at least 40% of all orders come from overseas right now. Currently one payment comes in for the drivers and a second payment comes in at the time of completion for the shipping cost. In this case the second payment would be the final 50% plus shipping cost, so it will still be the same amount of work. Paypal lets you easily duplicate an invoice so the second one can be issued with little work. I do have someone able to handle all that invoicing end to keep the work load off of myself also.

John

I understand that there's a lot of work involved in making these drivers, and you undoubtedly know more about your manufacturing process than I do. I just didn't want to see your company become crushed under a sudden influx of a massive order and have to shuffle the little "2 driver" guy off to the side. If you say that it's easier and faster to make hundreds than dozens, then that tells me you have confidence in your process.

Quote:


Currently one payment comes in for the drivers and a second payment comes in at the time of completion for the shipping cost.

That didn't happen in my case, I was charged the entire amount plus shipping in one lump sum, but that's no big deal. Or let me rephrase that: I was charged for the drivers and "a" shipping cost, but as completion hasn't happened yet, I realize I may be charged for some additional shipping costs. Again, no big deal.

Here's hoping that this group buy helps you further streamline your operation and get ahead of the curve. Sounds like you have a superior product, loyal customers, and a hungry market, all the makings for a growing company.

All the best.
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post #72 of 768 Old 09-30-2011, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckAuger View Post

I understand that there's a lot of work involved in making these drivers, and you undoubtedly know more about your manufacturing process than I do. I just didn't want to see your company become crushed under a sudden influx of a massive order and have to shuffle the little "2 driver" guy off to the side. If you say that it's easier and faster to make hundreds than dozens, then that tells me you have confidence in your process.

Having sourced many TD-style drivers from AE for my own products over a few years now, I can affirm John's description, where the group buy will serve to jump-start the cycle and benefit both John and those who purchase at a reduced price.

The difference in having all of the parts rough machined in China is tremendous in AE's throughput of drivers. Once the first batches come back from plating (local to AE) they are able to build at a pace to fulfill 50-300 drivers in what I'd consider a plenty reasonable time frame. At times when all parts are on hand, I have on more than a few occasions received a pallet full of drivers within a few weeks time or less.

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post #73 of 768 Old 09-30-2011, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Speqtre View Post

It really depends on what Mark Seaton's design ends up costing. If it's too much more than the parts to put together a 3pi, I'll probably end up buying the 3x TD12S

While I don't yet have any certain numbers, I would bet on it being more. I never have and have no intention of fighting to have the cheapest offering, just a strong value in the quality of the final product for the money paid. I'm sure there will be cheaper options using similar parts, and I'm perfectly comfortable with such options.

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post #74 of 768 Old 09-30-2011, 08:09 PM
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Is there a potential 3 way design with a coaxial in the middle, woofers top and bottom?

Do the phase plugs come in black?
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post #75 of 768 Old 09-30-2011, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

Is there a potential 3 way design with a coaxial in the middle, woofers top and bottom?

No.

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post #76 of 768 Old 10-01-2011, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

While there will be overlap, the formal kit offerings will be a fully separate operation and branding from the cabinets. Those buying the cabinets will have free reign on parts they load in (ie TD15X, H, & M all can work well and drop right into this box). Anyone can be up and running in a weekend with 3 iNukeDSP amps or a DCX-2496 and 6 amp channels. The passive options are something I will be working on over the coming months.

Will there be any SQ advantage to going the active route vs. the passive crossover?

I already have a 400x7 amp and I'm trying to decide if I should consider abandoning passive and move to active. I have space and WAF considerations that makes integrating 5 or 7 iNuke DSP amps a fairly difficult proposition. I know moving to an active setup would confer significant advantages for tweaking and future speaker options, but my immediate question is specifically whether you think the passive crossover you're designing will have the same SQ as an active design?

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post #77 of 768 Old 10-01-2011, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

Is there a potential 3 way design with a coaxial in the middle, woofers top and bottom?

Haha, I see you want some catalysts huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

Do the phase plugs come in black?

I'll let John give you the answer on that, but if they do not, they can be removed. From there you could either paint them or have them anodized.

YID DIY
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post #78 of 768 Old 10-01-2011, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

Is there a potential 3 way design with a coaxial in the middle, woofers top and bottom?

There is a potential...

It lies within you
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post #79 of 768 Old 10-01-2011, 10:51 PM
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Pretty off-topic since this is the TD series group buy, but since it is AE drivers, does anyone know if there are any IB15s to be had? If so, is there any way John is still doing the 4-$400 deal??
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post #80 of 768 Old 10-01-2011, 10:58 PM
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I wish as that is a killer deal if you want a high class IB system.

John has said they they are completely redesigning the IB subs so you'll prolly never see their 'current' IB15 ever again.


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post #81 of 768 Old 10-02-2011, 06:13 AM
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I haven't been able to do the IB15's at the 4 for $400 price for a long time. Through multiple price increases on aluminum, copper, magnets, etc, that is pretty close to what my price is. I simply can't sell something for what it costs me to make them. In reality they should have been far higher all along based on performance and low distortion characteristics. Klippel data that came in proved this. There is no redesign being done, I just ran out of steel for the motors and needed to wait until I could add that on with everything else being ordered. I will have IB15's available again shortly after the group buy woofers are shipped. They will be at the same recent pricing of $199 each or $175 each at quantity of 4+.

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post #82 of 768 Old 10-02-2011, 06:48 AM
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Hi John. Are you saying we can't order IB15s in the group buy ?
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post #83 of 768 Old 10-02-2011, 07:55 AM
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i like 2x TD12S for 3pi builds.....so who's taking order? John or someone else?
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post #84 of 768 Old 10-02-2011, 08:37 AM
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Thank you very much John for the information, I really appreciate the time to answer questions. I didn't know how long ago that information was posted(I figured it was old). I figure your talking January for an order of 4 of those.

Garric-I would LOVE for that to be the case, but I'm almost positive this GB is only for the TD series drivers(at least that's what the original deal was for)
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post #85 of 768 Old 10-02-2011, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

i like 2x TD12S for 3pi builds.....so who's taking order? John or someone else?

http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/vie...php?f=3&t=2808

Quote:


Here is how the pricing would look:
Item Retail 25%disc 30%disc
TD6 $189 $142 $132
TD10 $269 $202 $189
TD12 $289 $217 $203
TD15 $309 $232 $217
TD18 $449 $337 $315

To secure your order at the discounted prices, we will need an email confirming the model and quantity of your order by 12:00pm (Noon) Central time on October 17. Email for this group buy can be sent to TDgroupbuy @ aespeakers.com. At the closing of the group buy we will send Paypal invoices for a 50% down payment with the appropriate discount applied, based on total quantity ordered. We need to receive these payments by Midnight CST Saturday Oct. 22nd. The final 50% balance plus shipping will be due prior to shipment.

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post #86 of 768 Old 10-02-2011, 10:49 AM
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thanks, didn't know John was taking orders directly. thought someone over at diyaudio is taking orders.

i wonder what's the total so far. 50 seems to be very little considering lots of folks want 2 or 3.
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post #87 of 768 Old 10-02-2011, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_E_Janowitz View Post

I haven't been able to do the IB15's at the 4 for $400 price for a long time. Through multiple price increases on aluminum, copper, magnets, etc, that is pretty close to what my price is. I simply can't sell something for what it costs me to make them. In reality they should have been far higher all along based on performance and low distortion characteristics. Klippel data that came in proved this. There is no redesign being done, I just ran out of steel for the motors and needed to wait until I could add that on with everything else being ordered. I will have IB15's available again shortly after the group buy woofers are shipped. They will be at the same recent pricing of $199 each or $175 each at quantity of 4+.

John

Ah, okay. See I had read this link on your site and thought otherwise.

http://www.aespeakers.com/news.php?start=0&news_id=26

I guess the IB15A is a different driver.


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post #88 of 768 Old 10-02-2011, 03:13 PM
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The passive options are something I will be working on over the coming months.

Mark, will the passive crossover design be available for those of us who would prefer to do all the construction ourselves?

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post #89 of 768 Old 10-02-2011, 03:29 PM
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Mark, will the passive crossover design be available for those of us who would prefer to do all the construction ourselves?

If it is, you will still probably have to mimic the baffle width, and driver spacing
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post #90 of 768 Old 10-02-2011, 05:40 PM
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Haha, I see you want some catalysts huh?

I used to own 2010 JTR triple 12's across my front stage. Was wondering if something could be put together that could match or beat Jeff's wonderful speakers.
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