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post #31 of 86 Old 10-14-2011, 06:28 AM
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I guess I misunderstood your original drawing... I thought you 'had' to have a pair of saddle bag compartments under the top cabinet, to hold batteries, etc..

I also kinda assumed (although you've mentioned a couple options) that you wanted subwoofers, that you cross over at 100-150hz kind of thing, not woofers up through 2k.

My thoughts on a quad 10 were 2 facing back, and 1 facing each side all lined up, crossed over at 100-150. 20" wide just barely squeaks in a pair of 10's, and if you were to split/angle the back a bit like one of your last drawings, well that makes it childs play. Bass at low freq's is omnidirectional, so no worries on the fact that all subs are not facing the same way.

You then need a 'full range' top that can make it down to 150hz. I personally measured the 99db efficient 5" faital pro m5n12-80 with smaart. I think they are your best option. A pair of them gives you a 6ohm load, which would work well for each of the 'high freq' channels of the sure 4x100. There's an ebay seller selling for under $60 each. I know they are a bit shy on top end, but just a bit of ipod eq or anything other kind of eq brings it up to acceptable top end for music. (or you can just add a supertweeter of some kind.) I was actually impressed with their sound. Faital says it is a dedicated vocal midrange, and they are right, vocals sound very nice. It is also a neo driver and only 2lbs each. Splay your tops 90degree facing 'back' from your bike and you have about a 180degree sound field -- good for stationary, as well as riding.

On ports, 160cm2 lines up nicely with two 4" pvc ports.
On construction, I think you can get away with 1/4" bb ply with 1/4" dowels for braces from side to side to minimize any vibrations.
LL
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post #32 of 86 Old 10-14-2011, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbelljbell View Post

I guess I misunderstood your original drawing... I thought you 'had' to have a pair of saddle bag compartments under the top cabinet, to hold batteries, etc..

No I don't NEED the saddlebag, speakers get first dibs on cargo real estate

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbelljbell View Post

I also kinda assumed (although you've mentioned a couple options) that you wanted subwoofers, that you cross over at 100-150hz kind of thing, not woofers up through 2k.

My thoughts on a quad 10 were 2 facing back, and 1 facing each side all lined up, crossed over at 100-150. 20" wide just barely squeaks in a pair of 10's, and if you were to split/angle the back a bit like one of your last drawings, well that makes it childs play. Bass at low freq's is omnidirectional, so no worries on the fact that all subs are not facing the same way.

You then need a 'full range' top that can make it down to 150hz. I personally measured the 99db efficient 5" faital pro m5n12-80 with smaart. I think they are your best option. A pair of them gives you a 6ohm load, which would work well for each of the 'high freq' channels of the sure 4x100. There's an ebay seller selling for under $60 each. I know they are a bit shy on top end, but just a bit of ipod eq or anything other kind of eq brings it up to acceptable top end for music. (or you can just add a supertweeter of some kind.) I was actually impressed with their sound. Faital says it is a dedicated vocal midrange, and they are right, vocals sound very nice. It is also a neo driver and only 2lbs each. Splay your tops 90degree facing 'back' from your bike and you have about a 180degree sound field -- good for stationary, as well as riding.

On ports, 160cm2 lines up nicely with two 4" pvc ports.
On construction, I think you can get away with 1/4" bb ply with 1/4" dowels for braces from side to side to minimize any vibrations.

Thanks for the clarification. looks like the sub will be about 40lbs all loaded up… that should be ok. If the bass is loud n deep I won't care how heavy it is

As for the faital 5"ers, is 15W per driver enough? The Sure amp only provides 30W max for a 6ohm resistance, which would be split between two drivers. To me it doesn't seem like it will be loud enough to match the sub?

Is there a big audible disadvantage to using a compression driver for the top and crossing the sub at 1500-2K? As far as weight & efficiency goes, it seems like I could get much more out of a horn for the top and save weight at the same time- but I have a feeling someone might tell me the mids will suffer.
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post #33 of 86 Old 10-14-2011, 05:12 PM
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If you want your bass 10-12db hotter than the rest of your mix. (typical) then you either achieve that with excessive eq, or crossover at 100hz or so and tops from there on up.

yes a quad of the peavey 10's is 20lbs in driver alone.

The faitals are 99db, a pair is 102db efficient... you should only need about 10 watts, if you want your tops -10db from your subs at 120db.

If you don't want to go the faital route. A pair of aura NS6's at $10 each and only 1lb are a great match with a pair of them at 4ohm and add a supertweeter.
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post #34 of 86 Old 10-14-2011, 05:25 PM
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Line arrays




The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

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post #35 of 86 Old 10-15-2011, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thylantyr View Post

Line arrays



That gives me some really good ideas for another desert bike...


Quote:
Originally Posted by jbelljbell View Post

If you want your bass 10-12db hotter than the rest of your mix. (typical) then you either achieve that with excessive eq, or crossover at 100hz or so and tops from there on up.

yes a quad of the peavey 10's is 20lbs in driver alone.

The faitals are 99db, a pair is 102db efficient... you should only need about 10 watts, if you want your tops -10db from your subs at 120db.

If you don't want to go the faital route. A pair of aura NS6's at $10 each and only 1lb are a great match with a pair of them at 4ohm and add a supertweeter.

Oooh I like those NS6's 'cause of their lower Fs. And $10 each? Pfff. Lighter?? PFF! The only disadvantages I see are less efficiency and they will require a slightly bigger box (so add a little more weight).

I keep going back and forth. It seems like both the NS6's and the Faitals [plus enclosure] will have about the same weight in the end (just a guess though), so it really comes down to sound quality and if the extra cost for the faitals is worth it... With the NS6's having a a much lower Fs, it seems like I could cross the sub anywhere from 100-150hz- whereas the Faitals it seems like I would be crossing it closer to 180hz. I'm not sure if it matters though.

Thank you so much for the help jbell! My friends are just as stoked with your help, too! You are helping to usher in a new age of soundbikes
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post #36 of 86 Old 10-16-2011, 12:04 PM
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Call Discovery channel to create a new show "LA Boom Bikes", inspired by American Chopper.
You will build custom bikes and the sound system for customers and charge
them $75k for the build. After 5 years if air time, your business grows to $100 million.
Just make sure you have drama with family to give it that edge. /serious :wink:



The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

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post #37 of 86 Old 10-16-2011, 04:44 PM
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Take a look at the Behringer EUROLIVE B205D. 5.5 inch speaker 150 watt RMS amp and a 3 channel mixer in one unit. I used one at an outdoor event for speech and background music with 150 people. Didn't even come close to using it at full volume. Also tested it on a cheap UPS and it ran for 2 hours on the battery's.

Video of the event.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Oao70BvyTI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I9bmyX9XIo
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post #38 of 86 Old 10-17-2011, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic1! View Post

Take a look at the Behringer EUROLIVE B205D. 5.5 inch speaker 150 watt RMS amp and a 3 channel mixer in one unit. I used one at an outdoor event for speech and background music with 150 people. Didn't even come close to using it at full volume. Also tested it on a cheap UPS and it ran for 2 hours on the battery's.

Video of the event.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Oao70BvyTI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I9bmyX9XIo

I am for sure going the DIY route, but I might have considered one of those Behringers when I was about to buy JBL stuff. I didn't know about those, could be a great starting setup for a bike sound system.

The problem is that both these Behringers as well as my JBL eons need an AC inverter to run, which kills system efficiency and literally requires about twice the battery due to heat losses inside the inverter. It's still a very efficient speaker- probably has an extremely efficient switching power supply inside like the Eons- but it can never be as efficient with battery power as a DC only system.

I've been running my eons using various inverters for about a year, and I always have enough battery to last the night (10hrs+). With the current setup I think the battery would probably last 12-14 hours. I am eager to build a system that effectively lasts for days, like one of my buddies with his tripath amp powered 3 way triple tall bike I think he recharges it about once a week!

From his experience and my own I know that this will not be hard to achieve using efficient DIY components. There are still no [manufactured] lightweight speaker systems I know of that are efficient enough for small batteries. If the Behringer / JBL eons had a direct DC in, they would be close to unstoppable. Either way, I'm excited to build the system myself with all of this forum's kind help on the matter! Cannot thank you guys enough!

Just waiting on the paycheck, then I'm making my speaker orders!

4 x peavey pro 10
2 x faital pro or aura NS6 - havent decided yet
1 x supertweeter - havent decided yet
4x8 of 1/4" baltic birch

Here is that triple tall bike I was talking about!
LL
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post #39 of 86 Old 10-17-2011, 04:59 PM
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Holy Crap!!!! How does he ride that thing?!?!?! More importantly, how does he get on and off that thing?!?!?!?


dbl

Let's all go to the lobby
....Let's all go to the lobby
........Let's all go to the lobby
............To get ourselves a treat!
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post #40 of 86 Old 10-17-2011, 05:03 PM
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I built a similar system and chose the pr10's also.
They are a punchy little driver for how light they are, the goldwood dvc 10" sub is also a decent budget driver.

My rig is modular and I run it with 2X10" or 6X10" depending on if I want to tow the trailer or not.
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post #41 of 86 Old 10-17-2011, 05:21 PM
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Although the Sure amp is cheap and powerful it is not the most rugged piece of equipment, I had one unit fail on my boombike and if the second one goes I will upgrade to something else.

For outdoor mobile you can tune the box pretty high, anything below 50hz is not worth trying to reproduce, I tuned mine to 70hz.

Check the class D forum at DIYaudio for tips on the Sure amp, some mp3 players can't drive it to it's full potential.
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post #42 of 86 Old 10-17-2011, 06:25 PM
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http://www.parts-express.com/project...roject=Podzuma

Just use the same bullet tweeter PE used here. Subbing a pair of NS6's for the 5 1/4" full range drivers should work relatively well, looking at madisounds response chart. http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...-woofer-8-ohm/

I think you have plan.. quad PR10's, quad ns6's, and a pair of bullet tweeters -- follow the PE plans for crossover for your tops.

The only other thing you need is a subwoofer crossover. (buy car audio 12v crossover)

OR.... have you checked these out?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARC-AUDIO-XX...item1c1c6d0101
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post #43 of 86 Old 10-18-2011, 02:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbldare View Post

Holy Crap!!!! How does he ride that thing?!?!?! More importantly, how does he get on and off that thing?!?!?!?


dbl

He climbs a wall to get on. To get off, he climbs down the side of the frame a bit... then jumps. Getting off is the easiest part to getting off of a tall bike. There is another tall bike system with a 515 eon- ridden by my close friend and fellow DJ. He is usually the one to take the wireless receiver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bschead View Post

I built a similar system and chose the pr10's also.
They are a punchy little driver for how light they are, the goldwood dvc 10" sub is also a decent budget driver.

My rig is modular and I run it with 2X10" or 6X10" depending on if I want to tow the trailer or not.

If those goldwoods were 8ohm per coil I would probably get those, but they are 6ohm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bschead View Post

Although the Sure amp is cheap and powerful it is not the most rugged piece of equipment, I had one unit fail on my boombike and if the second one goes I will upgrade to something else.

For outdoor mobile you can tune the box pretty high, anything below 50hz is not worth trying to reproduce, I tuned mine to 70hz.

Check the class D forum at DIYaudio for tips on the Sure amp, some mp3 players can't drive it to it's full potential.

It's ok I run a rolls 12v mixer that has plenty of gain. I definitely want to do my best to reproduce lows. A lot of times I can use a wall / corner as a horn and sometimes it gets DJ'ed indoors. Having those low frequencies is a must.

Also either me or my buddy is going to get the maxxbass 102 (mentioned earlier in this thread) to mess around with, that thing looks really cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbelljbell View Post

http://www.parts-express.com/project...roject=Podzuma

Just use the same bullet tweeter PE used here. Subbing a pair of NS6's for the 5 1/4" full range drivers should work relatively well, looking at madisounds response chart. http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...-woofer-8-ohm/

I think you have plan.. quad PR10's, quad ns6's, and a pair of bullet tweeters -- follow the PE plans for crossover for your tops.

The only other thing you need is a subwoofer crossover. (buy car audio 12v crossover)

OR.... have you checked these out?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARC-AUDIO-XX...item1c1c6d0101

Those tweeters are a bit heavy, no? And how big of an enclosure for the 4 NS6's were you thinking? Seems like it's going to be pretty heavy up top.

Check this out for a sub amp...
http://classdaudio.com/products/clas...amplifier.html

Also I was thinking I would bi-amp the system, one for sub and one for mids + highs using an active crossover. Let me know if you know of a good 3 way active crossover, I just found the Kicker KX3 and this one on ebay doing a quick search. Not sure if either is any good. Ideally I would like to build my own active crossover using my soldering iron But starting out, I think having some knobs to turn to adjust levels would be just grand!

Also the Sure amps have a separate input for every output channel- seems that they would work well with an active crossover network.
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post #44 of 86 Old 10-18-2011, 05:27 AM
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Did you take a minute to really check out that car amp? Philips digital amps on all channels, built in crossover, everything you need to run on 12v ONLY. And remote bass level? that's a bonus. You can bridge 1/2 for another 200watts plus 2 high freq 80 watt 3/4 channels and 200watts on the sub channel. When bridged they want no lower than 4ohm... which is exactly what you have with 2 Peavey PR's in parallel. Only goofy thing on that amp... 1/2 3/4 only have high passes... if you want to use 1/2 as another sub amp channel, you'll need to get a cheap high/low level converter, and run from your sub high level out, back to your 1/2 input so they get the same signal. But when done you'll have 400watts of sub and 80watts per channel top. So you'll have PLENTY of power for your subs.

Yea the bullet tweet is a bit heavy,(3lbs for a PAIR) but you have a pair of 90db woof, so 93 for the pair. You need a 93db tweet. By the time you find a compression driver/horn you are just as heavy... Then you are usually well above 93db, so you need to add resistors to drop the tweet level back down.... etc... easiest to just use someone else's work if you can.

You don't need bass from the aura's, so 1/4cu.ft. sealed is plenty. Just build a pair of MTM cabinets as small as you can out of 1/4" BB ply and be happy. (however the amp above will drive down to 2ohm not bridged, so if you want to find a lightweight 96db horn, and make line array looking cabinet MMTMM and roll your own crossover, go ahead...)
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post #45 of 86 Old 10-18-2011, 07:31 AM
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The sonotube tops weigh 14lbs each with the pr10's and pizeos

The Peavey speakers have fine mids, I don't think a three way system will gain you much output and complicate the project.

If I built another one I would use four of these tweeters and try to bump up to a pair of 12" or 15" neo drivers and have them fire 360`.
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post #46 of 86 Old 10-18-2011, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Jbell- yeah I did completely check it out I'm just not too worried about keeping everything 12v- and the 24v/48v 600W class D amp I mentioned looks to be higher quality, higher output power, more versatile (2ohm bridgeable), probably a lot lighter weight, and about the same cost- just without the built in crossover. I could use cheap components to step down to 12v to run all my other 12v stuff like mixer + wireless + el wire + etc.

My guess: that philips amp has a switching power supply that steps up the voltage to 40+/40- volts on the rails. I don't trust the efficiency of car amps, even class D. This is just speculation, but an amp asking for 24-48v supply probably means the power goes straight from the leads of the battery to the rails of the amp, no in-amp switching or voltage conversion necessary- that seems ideal for an amp putting out some power!

Looking at some efficiency calculations, it seems that the faital pro's will have the same 120dB max output with only 2 drivers at just 30W per driver (60W total) compared to the NS6 which is 4 drivers at 50W (200W total). I'm thinking now I will just use the faitals and make an MTTM enclosure which will be smaller and provide slightly better battery life.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bschead View Post

The sonotube tops weigh 14lbs each with the pr10's and pizeos

The Peavey speakers have fine mids, I don't think a three way system will gain you much output and complicate the project.

If I built another one I would use four of these tweeters and try to bump up to a pair of 12" or 15" neo drivers and have them fire 360`.

TIIIGHHT!!! Thanks for posting a pic! Come to LA and ride with us!!

Once again my whole reason for this project is to get the lowest & loudest bass possible out of the smallest / lightest setup. I know that low frequencies outside are possible, my eon 518s sound great outdoors- granted, they are 18's. However won't devoting the 4 x 10" peaveys to just the 150hz and below range free them up from the mid range and allow them to get louder at lower frequencies? Originally I did want to keep it simple with a 2 way system but having dedicated lows makes a lot of sense to me- relieving the mids and highs from the lows to get the most out of the lows.


Ok I am seriously honing this setup in, thank you guys so much for the help and criticisms.

Drivers
4 x 94.3dB Peavey Pro 10 Neo
2 x 99dB Faital Pro m5n12-80
2 x 100dB PE Bullet Tweeter

Amps
600W Class D
4x100W Sure Class D


Hookup & Power

600W class D @ 24v
ch1: Peavey10 + Peavey10 @ 300W 4ohm (150W per driver)
ch2: Peavey10 + Peavey10 @ 300W 4ohm (150W per driver)
OR
ch1+ch2 bridged: Peavey10 + Peavey10 + Peavey10 + Peavey10 @ 600W 2ohm (150W per driver)

4x100W class D @ 24v
ch1: Faital Pro @ 30W 6ohm
ch2: Faital Pro @ 30W 6ohm
ch3: PE Bullet Tweeter @ 40W 8ohm
ch4: PE Bullet Tweeter @ 40W 8ohm

Active 3 way variable crossover to trim tweets / hone crossover frequencies!

Ya dig??
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post #47 of 86 Old 10-18-2011, 06:26 PM
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"Once again my whole reason for this project is to get the lowest & loudest bass possible out of the smallest / lightest setup."

The Pr10's are a great budget midbass speaker but can't move a ton of air, that is why they are not well suited for true subwoofer duty. Multiple units will help but if you have the $ and power available there are better drivers for this application... (I had plans to get a couple of 15" Kappalites until the price doubled.)

Subwoofers can really take the strain off of your main speakers but I doubt it would have the same effect to cut the midrange from 10" pa drivers, it is what they were designed to reproduce.

When I modeled lower tuning for the PR10's (40-50hz) I lost a lot of midbass and gained very little extension at those frequencies.
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post #48 of 86 Old 10-18-2011, 07:07 PM
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Line array -

so close yet so far




The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

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post #49 of 86 Old 10-18-2011, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bschead View Post

"Once again my whole reason for this project is to get the lowest & loudest bass possible out of the smallest / lightest setup."

The Pr10's are a great budget midbass speaker but can't move a ton of air, that is why they are not well suited for true subwoofer duty. Multiple units will help but if you have the $ and power available there are better drivers for this application... (I had plans to get a couple of 15" Kappalites until the price doubled.)

Subwoofers can really take the strain off of your main speakers but I doubt it would have the same effect to cut the midrange from 10" pa drivers, it is what they were designed to reproduce.

When I modeled lower tuning for the PR10's (40-50hz) I lost a lot of midbass and gained very little extension at those frequencies.

Here is the 4 x Peavey 10" model by jbell, it matches the specs of what I asked for earlier... pretty much perfectly. I do know what you are saying with these 10's not being designed to move a lot of air with xmax at only 2.5mm, but judging by the model it looks as if it will work swimmingly- and they are easy enough to fit behind the cargo area of the bike.

Unfortunately pulling a trailer is not an option for this project: the subs have to fit [ideally rear facing] on the back of the bike. Perhaps extending the box out a few more inches to the rear so I could stack two 15's on top of each other might work...

Bschead- what do you recommend for 12's / 15's? I suppose with a bit of saving I could afford the kappalites... I would still definitely want f3 to be around the 40-42hz area, so I'm wondering how big the enclosure would have to be?

Jbell- I haven't given up on the quad 10 design- it's still my favorite! Having an array of woofers is just plain cool, too fo realz
LL
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post #50 of 86 Old 10-18-2011, 09:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Ugh... WinISD keeps crashing and throwing errors, zeroing out the graph, and refusing to work with my netbook! There really is no speaker simulation software for mac? Or, are there others that work well with windows 7?

Anyway, I was messing around with a model of 2 kappalite 15s. The enclosure would have to be so massive to get the F3 where I want it that I don't think the setup could be considered agile anymore. Perhaps the 12 and 15's are better suited for sonotube, since the material to make such a big strong cab any other way will weigh a lot for cycling.

If I didn't have to fit DJ equipment on the back, I would most definitely strap a HUGE sonotube (or 3) to the back and call it a day. But this is the DJ bike, the command console of off-grid dance parties It needs to be agile enough to go about anywhere.
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post #51 of 86 Old 10-18-2011, 10:17 PM
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one bug in winisd is if the port gets too short it can go negative.

for the model, make the port huge or use lots of them so the graph doesn't get zero'd out.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #52 of 86 Old 10-19-2011, 06:32 AM
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[quote=thylantyr;21097750]Line array -

so close yet so far

There are four more 10"'s in a box under the tubes.
One thing about bike trailers, you need to keep the center of gravity low or you end up with a problem.
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post #53 of 86 Old 10-19-2011, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyb0y View Post

. Perhaps extending the box out a few more inches to the rear so I could stack two 15's on top of each other might work...

That would put a magnet right where a tire needs to be, which would make it a bunch of inches out the back... Another reason I chose a quad instead of a pair for you. If you want all 4 facing back, you can build a 'notched cabinet' that has magnets on each side of the rear tire.

The sim is right, and yes the PR's give you the spl you are looking for.

A single 3015lf in a 150liter box works, but then the only way to make it reasonably fit is facing up, and I didn't think that was what you were after. It also requires an amp that can put out 200watts into 8ohm... which doesn't lend itself to class-d amps nicely.

And we keep getting back to efficiency... multiple drivers helps in the efficiency department.

I have no issues if you choose something I suggest or something someone else suggests.. just make sure the math is right, and it fits in the space/weight you have available.

EDIT:
added hornresp inputs for quad 10" cabinet.
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post #54 of 86 Old 10-19-2011, 08:06 AM
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[quote=jonnyb0y;21097857]Here is the 4 x Peavey 10" model by jbell, it matches the specs of what I asked for earlier... pretty much perfectly. I do know what you are saying with these 10's not being designed to move a lot of air with xmax at only 2.5mm, but judging by the model it looks as if it will work swimmingly- and they are easy enough to fit behind the cargo area of the bike.

Unfortunately pulling a trailer is not an option for this project: the subs have to fit [ideally rear facing] on the back of the bike. Perhaps extending the box out a few more inches to the rear so I could stack two 15's on top of each other might work...

Bschead- what do you recommend for 12's / 15's? I suppose with a bit of saving I could afford the kappalites... I would still definitely want f3 to be around the 40-42hz area, so I'm wondering how big the enclosure would have to be? QUOTE]

The quad 10 will be a good balance of light and cheap, heck the sure amp can run eight 8ohm drivers, That is what I would build on a Yuba. Four sections of sonotube with a driver on each end and a port in the middle so your system blasts in both directions. Don't get too hung up on making the"perfect" box, the extra 2db of extension on that lower octave is not worth carrying around a enclosure twice the size. (Most commercial PA cabs make this compromise)! More speakers > Huge box in this application and as long as each speaker has over 30liters it should sound fine.

Now if you wanted to dump some real $ into this project a big amp and lithium battery could push a high excursion driver in a small box, It should be louder with processing and weigh the same, but will not be as efficient, and will cost three times as much.

The 15" Kappa/Deltalites were a great value before the neo price hike but you can get two to three 15" Peavey's for what they go for now.

When I modeled the 10" vs. the 12" and 15" the bass output was not worth the bulk of box I would need with the little Sure amp.
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post #55 of 86 Old 10-24-2011, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

one bug in winisd is if the port gets too short it can go negative.

for the model, make the port huge or use lots of them so the graph doesn't get zero'd out.

thanks! that helps a lot!


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Originally Posted by bschead View Post

Now if you wanted to dump some real $ into this project a big amp and lithium battery could push a high excursion driver in a small box, It should be louder with processing and weigh the same, but will not be as efficient, and will cost three times as much.

Louder is always better if it weighs the same, do you have an example of a lightweight high excursion 10"? Saw some B&C neo 10's on Parts Express with higher sensitivities that definitely spark my interest. Also you said "with processing"… did you mean like the maxxbass or something else?

B&C 10CL51 10" Neodymium Woofer
96dB only 2.6lbs!! But will it do 40hz with 4? It has a similar Q and a lower Fs than the Peavey 10 neo, plus a 6mm xmax.

I also found the AE speaker line mentioned in a PE tech thread, namely the TD10M looks interesting but I'm pretty sure it weighs over 25lbs?

Louder bass is always going to be preferred, and I am ok with spending a bit more than I would have on the Peaveys if there are significantly louder options.
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post #56 of 86 Old 10-25-2011, 06:06 AM
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I guess my thinking is always balance. 6mm xmax is good if you have the power to use it. If not, it's a waste.

The modeled peavey quad 10's just run out of xmax at the power you have at the spl you asked for... sounds like balance to me.
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post #57 of 86 Old 10-25-2011, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Just ordered a maxxbass 103 for $45 shipped direct from waves audio, which is like the maxxbass 102 but runs on 12V... Also they are cheaper new than on ebay, and it is listed for $100 until you click "buy"- then it shows up in their store as only $35

I'm going to try it out with my JBL eon 510 (F3 around 70hz) and see how I like it. If the results are huge, I might rethink how important those lower frequencies are to me with the build and trade for smaller box size and higher system sensitivity. I am very curious to hear how the maxxbass performs in an outdoor environment! I'll know soon enough.

I have also been experimenting with some 12" models using dual Kappalite 3012LFs, box size at 5.36cu/ft tuned to 42hz. With that I've been getting F3's at 43hz with a super flat response curve which pleases me a LOT considering that dual Kappalites are a lower total weight, but just slightly lower sensitivity (about -3dB than either quad setup above 60hz)... not to mention $$$$$

Will most likely run the whole system as 24v using one or two 24v lifepo4 20Ah packs in parallel, hooking the bank directly up to both the Class D Audio amp and the Sure amp will result in the highest electrical efficiency possible (eliminates the need for a switching power supply). Charge voltage is 33.6V and it is considered discharged at 24V. 40Ah at 24v should be all I will ever need- I might even be able to get away with 20Ah- only 13lbs.
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post #58 of 86 Old 10-25-2011, 04:03 PM
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I spotted a sound bike at the Phoenix Maker Faire last weekend. I am sure it falls short of the performance you are seeking, but it is interesting nonetheless. It uses sonotubes to house ported 2-ways, Dayton pre-built passive crossovers, and a car audio amp. I didn't look at the drivers that closely, but I think it had "bullet tweeters" and maybe some ~8" woofers. It was mounted on a cruiser with an xtra-cycle extension. My picture sucks, but you get the idea.

-Max
p.s. Great thread!
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post #59 of 86 Old 10-25-2011, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxcooper View Post

I spotted a sound bike at the Phoenix Maker Faire last weekend. I am sure it falls short of the performance you are seeking, but it is interesting nonetheless. It uses sonotubes to house ported 2-ways, Dayton pre-built passive crossovers, and a car audio amp. I didn't look at the drivers that closely, but I think it had "bullet tweeters" and maybe some ~8" woofers. It was mounted on a cruiser with an xtra-cycle extension. My picture sucks, but you get the idea.

-Max
p.s. Great thread!

Hahaaaa WHOA leopard print!

Cool setup, so far sonotubes have taken over this thread!

Leaning more and more towards four B&C 10CL51s. 2.6lbs at 96dB per driver is very enticing. It might just be the lightest pro 10" money can buy.
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post #60 of 86 Old 10-26-2011, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Possibly found an even better solution for tops, let me know what you think:

Super lightweight Galaxy Audio S5N-8 5" Neodymium Full Range Driver 8 Ohm

Why forego the faital route? The faital M5N12-80s are indeed more sensitive, but they over 2lbs each and the amp would not use it's full power with a 6ohm load. Plus I would need to have tweeters to cover the high range, which would add another 3-4lbs and require 2 more amp channels.

With S5N's I could run four of them, which would get me up to 102dB 1W/1m sensitivity. Overall speaker weight would go from 10lbs for tops to 4lbs (SN5's are 1lbs each!). I could even use the smaller Sure 2x100W amp (wiring two S5N's to each channel at 4ohm) and get a full 100W per channel. The sure amps also run at their highest efficiency with a 4ohm load.

I feel like I'm getting much closer to my perfect theoretical setup and I just want to thank all of you who have participated in this thread. Your ideas, suggestions, and experiences shown here have been priceless through the initial phase of this project. I will be buying parts and building these speakers with confidence thanks to you. YOU ROCK! Thank you so much for the help and criticisms!!!!

Updated plan:

4 x 96dB B&C 10CL51 10" Neodymium Woofer @600W (2ohm)
4 x 95dB Galaxy Audio S5N-8 5" Neodymium FR Driver @2x100W (4ohm)
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