Building mobile music system for bicycle setup - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 86 Old 10-28-2011, 01:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Design updates.
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post #62 of 86 Old 10-30-2011, 12:41 AM - Thread Starter
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More design updates, with application of golden ratio.

less than 18" wide
telescopic tops (max height 6')
aerodynamic contour

Slowly starting to order parts... Big stuff gets ordered next week.
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post #63 of 86 Old 10-30-2011, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyb0y View Post

Design updates.

I think your rig may end up weighing over 2X what a sonotube system will.
I found that out using relatively light 1/2" ply on some test boxes, If weight is not a big concern the design looks great.

I am a fan of modular systems that can broken down, transported, and stored easily. (I don't have a garage) I can strap this system on any bike with a rear rack in about 15 min.
It was light enough to ride up Going to the sun road in Glacier Park without too much trouble.

Finding the balance between SPL/weight/cost is the issue with all mobile systems and it is easy to go overboard in one direction at the expense of the others.
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post #64 of 86 Old 10-30-2011, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bschead View Post

I think your rig may end up weighing over 2X what a sonotube system will.
I found that out using relatively light 1/2" ply on some test boxes, If weight is not a big concern the design looks great.

I am a fan of modular systems that can broken down, transported, and stored easily. (I don't have a garage) I can strap this system on any bike with a rear rack in about 15 min.
It was light enough to ride up Going to the sun road in Glacier Park without too much trouble.

Finding the balance between SPL/weight/cost is the issue with all mobile systems and it is easy to go overboard in one direction at the expense of the others.

Sweet. Thanks for showing a pic of the alternate configuration, pretty cool that you can scale it up or down. I'm sure it is light as hell too with the peaveys. The B&C drivers I'm looking at are even half the weight of the PR10 neo's- 2.6lbs per 10" driver and for tops the Galaxy S5N comes in at 0.8lbs per driver

I checked the volume and surface area of each of the boxes for the last design. Looks like it is going to be pretty light. Doing some research I found 1/4" baltic birch to be about 0.8lbs per square foot.

Sub enclosure
12.1 sq/ft of 1/4" BB
5.164 cu/ft
9.69lbs (20lbs with speakers)

Top enclosure
1.67 sq/ft of 1/4" BB
0.34 cu/ft
1.33lbs (4.5lbs with speakers)

Add some doweling, bracing, and maybe a few 1/2" panels where absolutely needed... I might be looking at 30lbs for the enclosures with drivers, right? The battery will weigh 16lbs, which is 10lbs less than before. My current setup weighs 42lbs (battery + speaker), the new setup will weigh 46lbs (battery + speaker). That's a 4lbs sacrifice I'm willing to make

My only thought is that there is going to be some pressure in there since I'm using the classDaudio TI600... 1/4" will be thick enough as long as I brace it well, right?

Thanks for the help guys
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post #65 of 86 Old 10-30-2011, 06:08 PM
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A lithium battery will get rid of a good deal of lead and charge quickly. The high Ah packs are expensive but should last through more cycles than SLA, I use both and it is handy to have a backup when one dies.
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post #66 of 86 Old 10-30-2011, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bschead View Post

A lithium battery will get rid of a good deal of lead and charge quickly. The high Ah packs are expensive but should last through more cycles than SLA, I use both and it is handy to have a backup when one dies.

I bought a 36v 20Ah lifepo4 "pingbattery" earlier this afternoon on ebay from a guy in PA for $400 Also ordered a 36v to 12v 10A step down converter to run all of my essential 12v gadgets. This battery will be with me for a long time.

The 36v pingbattery has a charge voltage of 45v, so that should fill out the 50v requirement on class d audio's TI amps perfectly... which brings me to another reason why I've decided against the Sure amp. After more research on it it definitely looks like it indeed might not hold up to the abuse of being on a bicycle very well. Class D Audio amps seem to have better reliability for most, and the new TI 300 & 600 take a single 20-50v supply (other cda models require a dual +/- supply from what I understand). So, I've decided to go with the TI-300 for highs and TI-600 for the subs. Should be a perfect match with the battery. I would have had to run a 24v supply to play well with the Sure (32v max), and that would have meant getting half power out of the TI-600. Now both amps will have the same power supply needs.

The 16lbs battery I mentioned in the prev post is the pingbattery
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post #67 of 86 Old 10-31-2011, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbelljbell View Post

The sim is right, and yes the PR's give you the spl you are looking for.

EDIT:
added hornresp inputs for quad 10" cabinet.

OK jbell... I've been trying and trying to finalize this setup and I keep going back to why I can't even get close your model using the same parameters in hornresp, or with pr10neo params in other software. I have read in several places that it is not possible to extend the F3 by adding multiple woofers- just increases efficiency and SPL? I don't understand, then, what allows for the lower extension with your PR10neo model unless there is some sort of horn or other special setup/parameter that I am not realizing...

Also, since I am trying to shave as much weight as possible, I have been hoping to use B&C 10CL51's which are half the weight of the pr10neo's.

I have been using bassbox pro for the past week to do my sims. To me the app seems to work well and it was very easy to learn, yet I have no experience with its accuracy. With the 4 x pr10neo in bassbox I am getting 56hz F3 with 5.3cu/ft. I got similar results in WinISD. This is way off from yours. I have to go up to 12 cu/ft to get a graph looking similar to the one you posted. Are you sure your enclosure volume wasn't doubled? I just don't get it, why everything I try is so far off?

With 4 x B&C 10CL51 at the newest target volume of 5.13cu/ft, I am getting lower F3 at 54hz and higher SPL than the PR10neo. Bassbox is telling me that the 10CL51 is a better choice overall- including low frequencies. Hopefully it's true, because I love the idea of quad 10's only weighing in at 10lbs instead of 20.

Can you explain why your hornresp sim is so much more gracious, and why I have to go up to 12cu/ft in bassbox/winISD to even get close? Am I going nuts?! Probably
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post #68 of 86 Old 11-01-2011, 07:16 AM
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What frequency are you tuning the ports?
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post #69 of 86 Old 11-01-2011, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bschead View Post

What frequency are you tuning the ports?

Here is what I modeled, The red line is the theoretical limitations from 6mm of x-max, another reason to opt for a higher tuning if you want higher spl
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post #70 of 86 Old 11-01-2011, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bschead View Post

What frequency are you tuning the ports?

Tuning to 54hz in a 145L box. Actual output from the amp will probably be closer to 450-500.

As far as xmax limitations, isn't it factored into a sim's predicted response? Looking online it seems like pushing a driver past it's xmax adversely affects distortion the most and possibly damages the driver.

How much do I have to worry about that with the B&C quads tuned low? My simulation is showing xmax will be reached at ~45hz (@500W). What happens to the sound at that point?

I know a lot of my questions/resonposes probably seem sophomoric at best, so thanks for hearing me out. I feel like I have already learned a ton compared to what I knew before starting this thread, and I always try to search the internet first before asking here. Really appreciate all the help and suggestions!
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post #71 of 86 Old 11-01-2011, 01:54 PM
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Maybe it's been said here, but I like to model in WinISD pro. I simulate the woofer at the power level I am applying and determine my excursion characteristics based on the what the box, tuning and power applied allow for. Have not used Hornresp yet so maybe it does a better job. Unibox (excel sheet also models well and easily.

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post #72 of 86 Old 11-01-2011, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyb0y View Post

Tuning to 54hz in a 145L box. Actual output from the amp will probably be closer to 450-500.

As far as xmax limitations, isn't it factored into a sim's predicted response? Looking online it seems like pushing a driver past it's xmax adversely affects distortion the most and possibly damages the driver.

How much do I have to worry about that with the B&C quads tuned low? My simulation is showing xmax will be reached at ~45hz (@500W). What happens to the sound at that point?

I know a lot of my questions/resonposes probably seem sophomoric at best, so thanks for hearing me out. I feel like I have already learned a ton compared to what I knew before starting this thread, and I always try to search the internet first before asking here. Really appreciate all the help and suggestions!

The low tuning is good for the drivers, remember the port is doing most of the work at resonance.

In my experience it is fairly hard to destroy a decent (pro) bass driver with 100 watts, the amp will let you know you're pushing it too hard before the speaker has any problems(YMMV). If you were feeding it more power or had them in a huge box I would high pass them just below the tuning frequency, but since most music has little content there you should be fine.




Here you can see that you should still be able to bump 110db at 40 hz before reaching x-max on the drivers, parked next to a wall it will be a impressive amount of sound.


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post #73 of 86 Old 01-24-2012, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been banging my head over what port size to use. Can anyone help? I've got 4 x 10" drivers (B&C 10CL51) with 6mm xmax pushed by 500W in a 160L box.

Would two 4" vents do the trick?

Anyway, this is where I am at- sharing some pics of the mockup.


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post #74 of 86 Old 06-11-2012, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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updates

it's done!

Just had the first test outside, and I am very extremely happy with the result. Sub frequencies are full and loud! It's crossed over at 300hz and EQ'd for more bass. I can't believe how low these 10's go. The miniDSP is awesome and I am already having a lot of fun adjusting it to sound exactly how I want.

Thank you guys for all the help, it turned out exactly how I wanted it to!

I'm happy to post more pics of the electronics box or "brain" as I've been calling it. Everything is arduino controlled down to timing when the amps turn on. Final step is getting the LED's installed on the back and programming some patterns

Also at full volume the system pulls 250W during heavy bass, I did some EQing (adjusting the sub frequencies) and got it down to 120W. For a normal listening level, it sits at about 50W continuous. At that level one battery would last about 7 hours, but I have two biggrin.gif

Thanks again for all the help! I'll be back with more progress shortly

d5OLO.jpg

UsRcx.jpg

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post #75 of 86 Old 06-11-2012, 06:36 PM
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Sick.

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

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post #76 of 86 Old 06-11-2012, 06:39 PM
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Dude, that looks awesome!!!! Glad it worked out for you! biggrin.gif

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post #77 of 86 Old 06-11-2012, 08:21 PM
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Not my cup of tea, but that is just way cool, I don't care who you are. Lots of time, thought, and planning, well executed. Looks like a blast.....I would stop for a listen for sure.

Can you post a final summary of all equipment used? Can you elaborate a little on how the arduino control is set up (hardware and software)?
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post #78 of 86 Old 06-12-2012, 09:45 AM
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That is a sweet set up, nice controller - is that a mixtrack pro??

Here in PA all I see are boom boxes strapped to the back of a bike - this is impressive.

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post #79 of 86 Old 06-18-2012, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Glad you guys are digging on it!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhillsguy View Post

Not my cup of tea, but that is just way cool, I don't care who you are. Lots of time, thought, and planning, well executed. Looks like a blast.....I would stop for a listen for sure.
Can you post a final summary of all equipment used? Can you elaborate a little on how the arduino control is set up (hardware and software)?

Summary of equipment used:

Power
36v li-ion 9.6Ah pack (x2) - powers the whole system
36v to 12v stepdown 10A - powers all 12v accessories like, pre-amp mixer, dj controller, laptop charger, miniDSP
5v stepdown 3A (x2) - powers arduino + LED's
15ohm 25W precharge resistor (the classdaudio amps together have 10000uF of capacitors to fill wink.gif, without the precharge resistor hooking the power up resulted in a damaging power spike and arcing on the battery terminals)
Turnigy watt meter - monitors amount of battery used

Audio
TI-300 classdaudio amplifier
TI-600 classdaudio amplifier
miniDSP balanced
miniDSP power isolator - filters out the noisy 36v to 12v stepdown and provides 12v to miniDSP and pre-amp
Rolls MX122 minimix pro (steel case removed)

Visual
Arduino Uno R3
Bliptronics spectrum analyzer - reads a 7 band EQ into the arduino as separate values
Sparkfun WS2801 led strips (x3)

DJ
Traktor Kontrol S4
Laptop


The arduino is set up to control a set of DPDT relays that connect two pins I discovered on the TI amps to enable standby mode. When the pins on the amps are connected, standby is enabled. Using a pin on the arduino I time delayed the ON state of the relay so that the amps start up a few seconds after the system gets power. This protects the amp from the dreaded "pop" noise and damaging the system. Also I have a blue kill switch that changes the state of the amps after the system is started up.

The arduino also controls an array of 88 LED's I installed on the back of the bike. They are all sound reactive based on a 7 band EQ shield made by bliptronics called the "spectrum analyzer shield". This thing is way rad because you can literally make yourself a parametric EQ or just sample low bass and highs as I have done with the back of the bike. I am now at the point of being able to spend some serious time programming LED patterns, so excited to see where that goes. I have a little control panel I'm making that sits next to the gear shifter that will give me turn signals, stop / go LED commands, and cycle through LED pattern programs.

We just did a ride this past Saturday (this bike's maiden voyage) and I had barely enough time to make a basic LED pattern that mimics the lows on the sub and the highs on the tops. Also there is a nightrider mode biggrin.gif Much more to come as far as LED patterns, and maybe tonight I'll get some video of it too.

Thanks again for all the compliments, I'll be back on here soon with some more progress

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1L8uQ.jpg
fq1Nm.jpg
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post #80 of 86 Old 06-19-2012, 12:52 AM
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Very nice work! It looks incredible, and I'm sure it sounds incredible, too. smile.gif

-Max
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post #81 of 86 Old 06-19-2012, 08:24 AM
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Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Very nice job!!!

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post #82 of 86 Old 06-19-2012, 09:48 PM
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Is this bike going to be at RidazzCamp this year by any chance? smile.gif

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post #83 of 86 Old 06-20-2012, 07:29 AM
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That's impressive! Looks like once you made a plan, you executed it perfectly.
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post #84 of 86 Old 06-20-2012, 10:55 AM
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Great build. I had no idea people were hooking up their bikes like this until this thread.

I have to ask... How difficult is it to actually ride this rig around?Got an estimate of the total weight?


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post #85 of 86 Old 06-24-2012, 06:40 PM
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This turned out like 100x better than i thought it would. In LA theres kids willing to drop $2000 on carbon fiber bikes.. there might be a business in selling other kids crappy bikes with sound systems for $1000-$1500 but you build em for much less

What finish is that on the box? was it hard to apply?

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post #86 of 86 Old 07-03-2012, 01:53 PM
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Great job on the build!
More lights and some grills in the future?
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