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post #31 of 61 Old 10-24-2011, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok these are all takin today with my phone, and mobile photobucket was being a pain but I got it to upload.

First off from the LP



As you can see the center is mounted high above the tv, but I have it angled down into the listening area, so it's not intolerable.

This is a shot from the kitchen area looking into the living room.



You can see the second of the subwoofer cabinets in that shot, directly in between the main lp, and the chair.

He is a shot of the surrounds.



The left/right surrounds are mounted high but again angling into the lp, where as the rear surrounds are about ear level.

And one more without the grills cause some people like that look..



All in all my system is
onkyo 876
paradigm monitor 11's
klipsch snergy c-1 center
Cambridge soundworks Di/bi pole surrounds s205

(for now)
lol

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post #32 of 61 Old 10-24-2011, 12:28 PM
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I'd suggest a phantom center with 3π or 4π for left and right. Can you move the book case?

Don't move the dog. He (she) looks really comfortable.

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post #33 of 61 Old 10-24-2011, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petew View Post

I'd suggest a phantom center

indeed.
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post #34 of 61 Old 10-24-2011, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I can, but then I would have to relocate the ep4000, It's on top.. lol..

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post #35 of 61 Old 10-24-2011, 01:02 PM
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I tried several different placements and toe ins to try the phantom center and the stage was always a little finicky. for my MLP it was perfect for the most part, but anywhere else, it was just too far off. maybe I just didnt find that perfect toe in. There was also a slight amount of compression that I could catch every now and again in the L/R having to do the vocals along with their dedicated content.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #36 of 61 Old 10-24-2011, 01:22 PM
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"LTD02, I'm hearing this news of dynamics being more important than FR for the first time. Even on these dynamics touting boards. I was under the impression that flatness and extention were shown to be the highest priority - for music we'll say. Is there some research on this I haven't seen? Thanks."

the idea of high sensitivity is tied to dynamics and compression. our ears/brains are incredibly sensitive to changes in dynamics. the quietest sound that we can hear is when our eardrum is moving back and forth by about the size of a hydrogen atom.

our brains are so good at adjusting to frequency response that we can recognize our friends and family talking on a telephone and after a conditioning period, they sound real even though the lower end of the telephone system frequency (250-300hz) is chopping off the fundamental tone in our voices...the mind recognizes the harmonics and puts the fundamental back in!

there are people who like high sensitivity and or horn speakers not because they like to blast them to insane levels, but because the dynamic range of the source is preserved.

some people like old fashion lp's for the same reason. when an analog signal is digitized, dynamic range is lost (because the digital point is an average of the analog signal across a section of time). all the noise on an lp is tolerated because the dynamic range makes the music sound more realistic, which leads to it being more involving and emotional.

formal/academic research on dynamics is something that i have not seen and that is actually kind of surprising given its import. then again, i haven't done a comprehensive survey of the literature. anecdotally, the evidence is overwhelming.

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post #37 of 61 Old 10-24-2011, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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The lack of compression, and the increased dynamics was the first thing I noticed when I upgraded to my paradigms.

Coming from..

http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speak...8_1594crx.aspx

so you can tell that they where a definate upgrade, what I would be most impressed with its if I could get that kind of performance upgrade over the paradigms.

Think It's possible?

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post #38 of 61 Old 10-24-2011, 06:20 PM
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I suggest a DIY TV stand/Rack and an upgrade on the center channel. The Paradigms are a very capable mains and a good match output wise to the subs you made. Maybe a DIY center channel to get your feet wet? A WCW arrangement with the C being a coaxial would be a nice upgrade and a worthwhile endeavor. That TV stand's gonna give way so better to focus your attention there first, but NICE job on the subs though!
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post #39 of 61 Old 10-24-2011, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah I was thinking about building a new tv stand with a more robust design, and a built in space for my center channel..

I really had my heart set on..



But they dropped that bad boy when they went to v7.. (series 7).

So what could I build to match the sensitivity, and sound of that monster?

Plus, that mother looks mighty impressive, for that WOW visual.

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post #40 of 61 Old 10-24-2011, 07:47 PM
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Check out Audiogon for used or new old stock. Avg price around $500 plus shipping. Adding one of these or similiar would really help with dynamics
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post #41 of 61 Old 10-24-2011, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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so that speaker, the cc-390 would be a major improvement over the klipsch snergy C-1?

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post #42 of 61 Old 10-25-2011, 11:30 AM
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Immensely so! The alignment alone will show you a big improvement with dialogue intelligability and the dual mids/dual woofers will yield big gains in dynamics and bass response considering that 70% or better of todays film content is mixed to the CC.
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post #43 of 61 Old 10-25-2011, 12:06 PM
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only way to improve more is to go for a vertical alignment

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #44 of 61 Old 10-25-2011, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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lol, thanks beast...

if I cannot find the cc-390

I am thinking klipsch rc-62..
what do you think of that....

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post #45 of 61 Old 10-25-2011, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile34 View Post

Yeah I was thinking about building a new tv stand with a more robust design, and a built in space for my center channel..

I really had my heart set on..



But they dropped that bad boy when they went to v7.. (series 7).

So what could I build to match the sensitivity, and sound of that monster?

Plus, that mother looks mighty impressive, for that WOW visual.


Not sure about sensitivity, but the overall look is similar:

http://clearwaveloudspeaker.com/Dynamic/4CC.html

JSS
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post #46 of 61 Old 10-25-2011, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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similar? damn looks like a copy to me, other than the sensitivity as you mentioned..



vs





Which is why I went klipsch in the first place..

What else guys?

Nice find max....

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post #47 of 61 Old 10-25-2011, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

Not sure about sensitivity,

88db/2.83v/m. Hmm. And even that looks optimistic based on the FR. I'm shocked that many drivers can't muster up more than that.

There are a few centers on the DIY scene that have that type of configuration. Maybe not 4 woofers. But stacked TM with flanked woofers is common enough.
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post #48 of 61 Old 10-25-2011, 10:22 PM
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if you want high sensitivity in that form factor, get a triple 8 and turn it on its side.

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/triple-8ht/

or build one yourself.

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post #49 of 61 Old 10-26-2011, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

88db/2.83v/m. Hmm. And even that looks optimistic based on the FR. I'm shocked that many drivers can't muster up more than that.

There are a few centers on the DIY scene that have that type of configuration. Maybe not 4 woofers. But stacked TM with flanked woofers is common enough.

It looks like it should do more than 88dB....but I guess not.

100W will only net 108dB at 1m. You'd need around 300W to even get near reference at 4m, as long as the drivers could take it...

JSS
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post #50 of 61 Old 10-26-2011, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

if you want high sensitivity in that form factor, get a triple 8 and turn it on its side.

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/triple-8ht/

or build one yourself.

+1

I wouldn't mess with these wimpy little speakers. The differences in dynamic capability will be incremental at best.

IMO, if you want to make a significant upgrade in dynamic capability, you either go with horns on the L/R with a phantom center or you go with 3 JTR T8's. The JTRs are an excellent value and about the only way I can think of to get a horizontal center that is capable of significant dynamics. Since it is a retail speaker you are paying a premium over DIY but the JTR is pretty damn cheap when you take into account the nice finish and components used.

I'd still go with a pair of 3Pi or 4Pi myself. That can be done for around $1k for the pair and the finishing costs are up to you. It just depends on how fancy you want them to look.
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post #51 of 61 Old 10-26-2011, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

if you want high sensitivity in that form factor, get a triple 8 and turn it on its side.

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/triple-8ht/

or build one yourself.

That is what I just did But dont count on mounting that sucker on the wall, it's a beast! Mine will actually be vertical placement behind the new AT screen but should be an excellent match for the L/R triple 12's

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #52 of 61 Old 10-26-2011, 07:13 AM
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That RC62 II is a much better option than the cc as it is 98db sensitivity. That is 10db more sensitive than the CC!!

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post #53 of 61 Old 10-26-2011, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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the paradigm cc-390 sensitivity is listed at.. 97db.

the clearwave clone is, listed at 88db.

But I am considering buying the rc-62 if I cannot find the paradigm...

Then once I get enough money for the geddes set up, (or the pi, still not one hundred percent which) I will sell my whole front soundstage..

@beast did you build your jtr's? checked out the website and they look nice, but didn't see any DIY plans, or links..

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post #54 of 61 Old 10-26-2011, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile34 View Post

the paradigm cc-390 sensitivity is listed at.. 97db.

the clearwave clone is, listed at 88db.

But I am considering buying the rc-62 if I cannot find the paradigm...

Then once I get enough money for the geddes set up, (or the pi, still not one hundred percent which) I will sell my whole front soundstage..

@beast did you build your jtr's? checked out the website and they look nice, but didn't see any DIY plans, or links..

Nope, i got them from Jeff already built. He has dont a lot of work and due diligence on the xover portion of the speaker and the value really shows through. They are spectacular. AFAIK there are no DIY plans available from Jeff.

Ok that makes it a little different then, on the sensitivities. If I were you, id steer clear of the clone with that low efficiency.

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post #55 of 61 Old 10-26-2011, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I plan on staying away from the clone..

If I don't go DIY, then I will go with a design of similar sensativitys as my mains..

Paradigm monitor 11v6. is said to be at 97db.

So that means a high efficient center is a must to be able to keep up..

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post #56 of 61 Old 10-26-2011, 08:19 PM
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That RC62 looks nice, but 98dB with 2.83V in. Depending on impedance, that can be much more than a watt. Under impedance it says "8ohm compatible". Not sure if some specmanship is going on there....and they do not spec if it is a 2pi (groundplane) efficiency spec.

Also, for Wayne Parham's speakers, please do pay attention that his specs delineate that they reach the dB sensitivity mark with 2.83V in quarter space, or wall-loaded (except for the corner horns, which are of course corner loaded, and the 12pi sub which is a groundplane spec). This is different than a 4pi (freespace) specification.

Granted, most will use Wayne's speakers in a 1pi environment, and 0.5pi for his cornerhorns, and they will see this efficiency.

Odds are Jed at Clearwave may spec his for 4pi space, netting the 88dB rating, which may be bumped up inside a room. But the best place to ask is over at his forum.

JSS
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post #57 of 61 Old 10-27-2011, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile34 View Post


Paradigm monitor 11v6. is said to be at 97db.

So that means a high efficient center is a must to be able to keep up..

97db from a dome is really questionable IMO. I find a lot of commercial designs skew this spec. And I'm a paradigm fan
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post #58 of 61 Old 10-27-2011, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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I think they are referring to "in room", not outside.

But the selling point of the monitor line (especially v6) was high sensitivity..

But I am with you, I think I have seen the measured spec (third party) placed around 94db.

Which is still high, but not quite as high those horns...

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post #59 of 61 Old 05-19-2014, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post

IMO, if you want to make a significant upgrade in dynamic capability, you either go with horns on the L/R with a phantom center or you go with 3 JTR T8's. The JTRs are an excellent value and about the only way I can think of to get a horizontal center that is capable of significant dynamics. Since it is a retail speaker you are paying a premium over DIY but the JTR is pretty damn cheap when you take into account the nice finish and components used.


I'd still go with a pair of 3Pi or 4Pi myself. That can be done for around $1k for the pair and the finishing costs are up to you. It just depends on how fancy you want them to look.

I'd like to make sure I'm understanding your use of the term "phantom" center. I assume it just means 3 of the same speakers across the front (in VERY general terms). I'm planning on 3 of the 4Pi across the front with the center below the screen & TV (assuming I dont end up with some 4430's).
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post #60 of 61 Old 05-19-2014, 09:56 PM
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^^ In this instance it means using L+R and no C.
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