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post #61 of 244 Old 12-14-2011, 11:53 AM
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IIRC someone at the PSW forums measured some of the Tubas.
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post #62 of 244 Old 12-14-2011, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahoma Wolf View Post

IIRC someone at the PSW forums measured some of the Tubas.

T36 in 2007 or so. That's the only one of that family I've seen measured outside using a measurement system that can be identified.
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post #63 of 244 Old 12-14-2011, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Max when you do that can you make sure to get a waterfall or other decay plot too? Make sure to use a generous sweep level to get out of the noise floor. Is there any way for you to get an impedance measurement, via a woofer tester or something?
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post #64 of 244 Old 03-15-2012, 01:14 PM
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I think I found some Easter Eggs a few weeks early.

Driver List > DIY

Sundown Audio Zv3 18D2
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post #65 of 244 Old 03-15-2012, 03:00 PM
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The PSI driver has been up for a week or so. That's not new but maybe the criteria for searching DIY drivers? I dunno.

Looks like not all the Sundown info is up. I'm interested in Josh's opinion on that one.

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post #66 of 244 Old 03-15-2012, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Looks like not all the Sundown info is up. I'm interested in Josh's opinion on that one.

Um, yeah, $480 for a 1.5" VC and 1 mm xmax.

Maybe it's supposed to be 1 cm...

Noah
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post #67 of 244 Old 03-15-2012, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Looks like not all the Sundown info is up. I'm interested in Josh's opinion on that one.

Hmm, $480 for a 1.5" VC and 1 mm xmax.

Maybe it's supposed to be 1 cm...

Noah
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post #68 of 244 Old 03-15-2012, 05:47 PM
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Lol!

And 0mH inductance!

EDIT: Just fyi, Noah, I believe the Sundown has a typical 3" VC with ~30mm rated xmax.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #69 of 244 Old 03-15-2012, 06:16 PM
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Zv3 is one way 25mm 70% Bl, 40mm soft bottom and 47.5 hard bottom.

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

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post #70 of 244 Old 03-15-2012, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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There is nothing real there. I haven't even touched it at all other than unboxing it. (Sorry Wi) It's probably just place holder info I added a few weeks ago and forgot to keep hidden... EDIT: nope it shouldn't be visible at all...Still yeah that isn't anything real for it just place holder info.
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post #71 of 244 Old 03-15-2012, 09:44 PM
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No worries, I have no schedule for the Zv3. The 18sound 21 however I need as soon as possible, even if it makes the Zv3 take longer.

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

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post #72 of 244 Old 03-15-2012, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiSounds View Post

No worries, I have no schedule for the Zv3. The 18sound 21 however I need as soon as possible, even if it makes the Zv3 take longer.

^ Justin secretly wants the 5100

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post #73 of 244 Old 03-15-2012, 10:18 PM
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We ALL want the 5100.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #74 of 244 Old 03-16-2012, 01:06 AM
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Oh, and we want all you guys to create accounts on the data-bass forum

http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.p...um/4-the-bass/

trying to get a little bass measurement community started over there. Don't be shy!

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post #75 of 244 Old 03-16-2012, 08:00 AM
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I can bring a uhaul with 8 or 10 systems to measure over the summer

As far as the 5100, get a ferrite motor and the cost down to 600ish and we'll talk.

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

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post #76 of 244 Old 03-16-2012, 08:30 AM
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WiSounds, you would rather the 5100 had a ferrite motor? This is only for cost reduction correct? You just acquired 2 Neo drivers. Being new to this I'd hate to think that there is a performance advantage ferrite has over Neo that I am missing.
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post #77 of 244 Old 03-16-2012, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Kyle loaned me his 5100 over a year ago ...Damn really... and I've barely messed with it yet. That is about to change though. I finally got my Othorn cabs in this week and the 5100 is going in one. I hope I did my homework right.
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post #78 of 244 Old 03-16-2012, 09:31 AM
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It is a cost issue at this point. The B&C 21" went up almost 35% 8 or so months ago.

I have a ferrite 18sound 21", and a neo B&C 21".

Neo primarily has a significant weight advantage due to higher flux density per gram. I'm curious as to the comparison of flux density vs temperature of the two materials.

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

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post #79 of 244 Old 03-16-2012, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiSounds View Post

I can bring a uhaul with 8 or 10 systems to measure over the summer

As far as the 5100, get a ferrite motor and the cost down to 600ish and we'll talk.

I'm pretty sure Neo is an integral fact of the NRT motor design. It is too bad Neo prices have skyrocketed. The 5100 might be the ultimate subwoofer driver.
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post #80 of 244 Old 03-16-2012, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleLee View Post

Oh, and we want all you guys to create accounts on the data-bass forum

http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.p...um/4-the-bass/

trying to get a little bass measurement community started over there. Don't be shy!

Already made my account.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiSounds View Post

As far as the 5100, get a ferrite motor and the cost down to 600ish and we'll talk.

Werd.

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post #81 of 244 Old 03-16-2012, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiSounds View Post

I'm curious as to the comparison of flux density vs temperature of the two materials.

I believe ferrite is more tolerant of high temps than neo.

Noah
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post #82 of 244 Old 03-16-2012, 12:51 PM
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Ricci I was wondering if you had any updates on the SDX15?

I've still got one and it's probably going to get built when Erich gets the 15" cabinets on DIYsoundgroup.

But hearing that 33%~ of xmax is unusable doesn't inspire me very much.

I'm thinking it might be an issue with the driver as the other threads I found didn't have an issue. Maybe they weren't driving it hard enough?
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post #83 of 244 Old 03-16-2012, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsnasty View Post

Ricci I was wondering if you had any updates on the SDX15?

I've still got one and it's probably going to get built when Erich gets the 15" cabinets on DIYsoundgroup.

But hearing that 33%~ of xmax is unusable doesn't inspire me very much.

I'm thinking it might be an issue with the driver as the other threads I found didn't have an issue. Maybe they weren't driving it hard enough?

I have no experience with that driver, but after watching the video i'm almost willing to bet that sound is a coil offset issue. It really sounds like the coil is tapping the t-yoke which is common at higher extrusion if you have a slight bias. Its interesting that is happened in both drivers, but that doesn't rule out two distinct mfr issues that could still be isolated to the two drivers Josh tested... but still could be a more seismic problem that may or may not hit any particular driver.

This was a common issue on the 10" Axis (TC-3000) and in that particular case it had to do with these factors:
Tall gap that had less rocking tolerance with an overhung coil (similar variable with the xbll design) The coil is not overhung, but its almost overhung. The second part of the problem with the proximity of the spider to the cone and coil center of mass in relation to the spider join. In the case of the TC-3000 10" it was just really compact design with a big coil and we ran into collision issues at higher excursion despite perfect gap centering of the coil. The 12 and 15 have a lot more space for better torque control.

This is a much larger driver so i would suspect if this problem, then it is less sever than the 10" TC3k.

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post #84 of 244 Old 03-16-2012, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiSounds View Post

I can bring a uhaul with 8 or 10 systems to measure over the summer

As far as the 5100, get a ferrite motor and the cost down to 600ish and we'll talk.

^ It will weight 150 pounds.

Rare earth metals are all impacted by China's crazing high prices but that may change soon.. the UN is taking action now.

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post #85 of 244 Old 03-16-2012, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleLee View Post

Rare earth metals are all impacted by China's crazing high prices but that may change soon.. the UN is taking action now.

Well, that begs the question if the price will deflate or remain the same if the action is successful in reducing the material costs.

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

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post #86 of 244 Old 03-16-2012, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

It will be nice to get some actual measurements of the Tubas as the lack of from the designer is a strange oversight. Or not.

I measured a THT a while back, but probably could have done a better job. I will be able to measure it again in a couple weeks.





Learned a touch about measuring things since, as well as acquired some better gear.

Any specific requests?
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post #87 of 244 Old 03-16-2012, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Max when you do that can you make sure to get a waterfall or other decay plot too? Make sure to use a generous sweep level to get out of the noise floor. Is there any way for you to get an impedance measurement, via a woofer tester or something?

Yes, but I need to get to the point where I will take this beast outside. I have one completely finished, but the other is still bare wood. At some point this year I will put this thing through its paces. My driveway is over 60' long and I can definitely get a decent approximation to a 2pi environment.

JSS
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post #88 of 244 Old 03-17-2012, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleLee View Post

I have no experience with that driver, but after watching the video i'm almost willing to bet that sound is a coil offset issue. It really sounds like the coil is tapping the t-yoke which is common at higher extrusion if you have a slight bias. Its interesting that is happened in both drivers, but that doesn't rule out two distinct mfr issues that could still be isolated to the two drivers Josh tested... but still could be a more seismic problem that may or may not hit any particular driver.

This was a common issue on the 10" Axis (TC-3000) and in that particular case it had to do with these factors:
Tall gap that had less rocking tolerance with an overhung coil (similar variable with the xbll design) The coil is not overhung, but its almost overhung. The second part of the problem with the proximity of the spider to the cone and coil center of mass in relation to the spider join. In the case of the TC-3000 10" it was just really compact design with a big coil and we ran into collision issues at higher excursion despite perfect gap centering of the coil. The 12 and 15 have a lot more space for better torque control.

This is a much larger driver so i would suspect if this problem, then it is less sever than the 10" TC3k.

Thanks for the info Kyle.
Yeah it's an awful noise but definitely a possibility that it's less apparent / less common on mine. I purchased it just before they stopped being made so here's hoping.

When it gets built I'll dump 1000w~ in it to bring it over 20mm and post my findings on how it sounds. Until then I've gotta find some measurement gear

Cheers.
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post #89 of 244 Old 03-20-2012, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsnasty View Post

Ricci I was wondering if you had any updates on the SDX15?

I've still got one and it's probably going to get built when Erich gets the 15" cabinets on DIYsoundgroup.

But hearing that 33%~ of xmax is unusable doesn't inspire me very much.

I'm thinking it might be an issue with the driver as the other threads I found didn't have an issue. Maybe they weren't driving it hard enough?

Super delayed response. Sorry. I don't really have anything new. Both of my SDX's develop that same very loud clacking noise at about the same time. Also if I remember right Illka's from way back also had this same noise. It sucks because otherwise they are a great driver. Really quiet mechanically, low inductance, smooth extended top end, great cosmetics...I suspect that Kyle is right and it is coil rocking. The driver is not physically out of excursion headroom. It just starts making that noise abruptly.
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post #90 of 244 Old 03-20-2012, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

I measured a THT a while back, but probably could have done a better job. I will be able to measure it again in a couple weeks.





Learned a touch about measuring things since, as well as acquired some better gear.

Any specific requests?

Specific request...Waterfall for the above REW response measurement? Is that a 1w/1m drive level? looks like it should be close if not. Any thoughts on the 85Hz notch (Is it something intrinsic to that THT form)?
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