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post #1 of 244 Old 12-04-2011, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Good day. After a very long delay and a TON of work Data-Bass version 2 is up (Virtually everything has been overhauled though it may look like it on the surface ). We have added a lot of systems, some drivers and quite a few articles. We also have a lot of added pictures and for a few of the passive systems we have done high power impedance testing. We still have a few minor things left to update and a couple of systems to add as well. Additional tests and articles will be able to be added much faster now and will be.

Those of you that have supported us, we thank you and apologize for the delays. Enjoy.

Data-Bass


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post #2 of 244 Old 12-04-2011, 08:15 AM
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Great stuff, the list is really growing!
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post #3 of 244 Old 12-04-2011, 09:14 AM
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Nice work!


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post #4 of 244 Old 12-04-2011, 09:21 AM
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Excellent work, thanks so much for your efforts!

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post #5 of 244 Old 12-04-2011, 09:24 AM
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Ricci, congratulations! The new site looks good, and I hope it continues well for you!

The only things I seemed to have missed were the entire reviews for the subs you test. I see they're partly there when I click on individual systems in the systems table, but they don't seem to have the depth of commentary you post here at AVS. It's entirely possible that I'm just confused, though. I kind of naturally expected those to also be cross-listed under the Reviews section.

Either way, it's a brave new world now that you're back up and running. I can't wait to see more!


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post #6 of 244 Old 12-04-2011, 09:26 AM
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Kick ass, thank you guys so much!

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post #7 of 244 Old 12-04-2011, 09:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

Ricci, congratulations! The new site looks good, and I hope it continues well for you!

The only things I seemed to have missed were the entire reviews for the subs you test. I see they're partly there when I click on individual systems in the systems table, but they don't seem to have the depth of commentary you post here at AVS. It's entirely possible that I'm just confused, though. I kind of naturally expected those to also be cross-listed under the Reviews section.

Either way, it's a brave new world now that you're back up and running. I can't wait to see more!

I probably won't go into the same amount of detail in the reviews. The issue is simply time. Since I am doing reviews for AH those take a lot of time and effort. I am not allowed to repost those word for word at DB since it is property of AH so we are simply linking to them, which works pretty well all around. The DIY stuff will just have commentary on the measurements and the drivers, etc. The stuff on DB will be more to the point and straight up technical. Sorry. This stuff takes so much time that I cannot rewrite reviews twice or do them for DIY type stuff. The raw drivers and passive systems take way more effort and time to fully test to begin with. Any commercial subs going forward will probably have an official review at AH that will be linked to so those will have a full write up.


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post #8 of 244 Old 12-04-2011, 10:28 AM
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it is kind of funny, but i saw the update and then posted about the update with the exact same timestamp as you. go figure.

there is a TON of work in there man. thanks and major props!

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post #9 of 244 Old 12-04-2011, 10:46 AM
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Sweet! Was looking forward to the new tests.

*scans immediately to Gjallerhorn*



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post #10 of 244 Old 12-04-2011, 11:36 AM
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The new site look really good Ricci!! Hopefully you can get a new Pi18 driver for review!

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #11 of 244 Old 12-04-2011, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

Ricci, congratulations! The new site looks good, and I hope it continues well for you!

The only things I seemed to have missed were the entire reviews for the subs you test. I see they're partly there when I click on individual systems in the systems table, but they don't seem to have the depth of commentary you post here at AVS. It's entirely possible that I'm just confused, though. I kind of naturally expected those to also be cross-listed under the Reviews section.

Either way, it's a brave new world now that you're back up and running. I can't wait to see more!


Good point, we do have some external links, so when Josh writes a full article for audioholics, we have a link to that review at the end of the notes section for the system. data-bass is intended to be more numerical based information with brief summaries of tests. Although, you would be surprised how much is text is already on there. Plus we have a lot of new articles http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=articles


You'll find additional text under the measurement tabs for each system that goes more into depth about the particulars of the test and performance. Some systems that have multiple tuning modes will have more than one tab (we call these measurement sets or msets) and a comparison among them -- that's one of the major changes we made for the new version. This also allows us to go retest any system but not remove older test data if we needed to keep that for reference for any reason.

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post #12 of 244 Old 12-04-2011, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Sweet! Was looking forward to the new tests.

*scans immediately to Gjallerhorn*


HaHa! I did the same thing, and was not disappointed! Which brings up the question for Ricci.....would the 5100 work just as well as the 5400 in the Gjallerhorn? Or alternatively, could I use my 15" LMS in that enclosure with similar results?

Great site!
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post #13 of 244 Old 12-04-2011, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Fatawan.

The 5100 models "ok" in the cab as does the 21SW152 but neither quite as good as the 5400. They give up some max output due to having less displacement . The Pi-18 models well in it as well but gives up a couple of db in max output and probably a little in some other areas. Haven't actually tried that driver though so...

Anybody check out the ported 21sw152 ? Its pretty viscous.

Btw I still need to redo 5 of the subs from the original tests to get them up to date. That includes the LMS and xxx stuff.


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post #14 of 244 Old 12-04-2011, 08:18 PM
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Nice job! The warm glow of my monitor shall keep my face awash with data-bass tonight.
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post #15 of 244 Old 12-05-2011, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Hey Fatawan.

The 5100 models "ok" in the cab as does the 21SW152 but neither quite as good as the 5400. They give up some max output due to having less displacement . The Pi-18 models well in it as well but gives up a couple of db in max output and probably a little in some other areas. Haven't actually tried that driver though so...

Still working on getting one down to you! Might put the F20s up on Craigslist soon!

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post #16 of 244 Old 12-05-2011, 06:25 AM
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Ricci,

First off, thanks for the work you are putting in on this. I was just checking out the updated site and went straight to the articles sections. The first one I was reading through was the room gain article since I am still trying to figure that piece out.

I read that for this test you first took measurements outside and then inside at the same drive level. My basic question is since I cannot get my subs outside for a measurement; do you believe that without doing this (outside measurement) there can be no valid test for room gain? I may have asked this before and if so I apologize.

Besides the fact that I cannot get my subs outside, if I did a close mic reading, the drive level would have to be increased once the subs go back into the normal positions for the second part of the test since a high drive level for the close mic would over drive the mic itself. Hope all of that makes sense. Thanks.

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post #17 of 244 Old 12-05-2011, 08:05 AM
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Ricci,

Thank you so much. We must not forget the genesis for all this; removal of subjective flora, and focus on measured capability in standardized, repeatable fashion. In all of audio, few areas are as inherently tied to pure statistical capability than that of subwoofer systems. That said, establishing these apples to apples comparisons, and de-bunking many of the typical myths is such a worthy cause. Great job.

I can only imagine how full your plate must be. Your recent contributions at AH, is truly solid work, and I know you're busy. However, if you were curious what others may like more of on Data-Bass,....I'd like to see additional articles on other common misunderstandings facing the subwoofer enthusiast;....ie; SBIR, and subsequent destructive interactions and suckouts, bass traps, and here's a biggie; the inter-relationships between harmonic distortion level, EL curves, and PVG

I'm sure your Data-Bass databass, will be a great platform for proper comparos for quite some time.


Thanks for the effort

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post #18 of 244 Old 12-05-2011, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Exojam,
I don't believe you can know how much gain without doing some sort of outdoor or anechoic test at a known drive level. How do you know where the curves match up otherwise? At least in my case there was no logical point where it would be easy to say "There...at 70hz" is where the 2 curves line up otherwise. What frequency do you pick? It's a pure guess and it could be off quite a bit easily.

You can figure out what the effect on the response is though if not the absolute gain. That is still far far better than nothing.

I suppose that you could take a close mic at a known drive level at say 1.25" from the cone and calculate back to 1m output (39.6" = close enough to 40" here) by subtracting 30dB. Only problem is even if you pull the sub out into the room there may be some boost from the floor, measuring at such close range distances may have some extra proximity effect, errors in distance at such small sizes as 1.25" can produce large variations in output. What if the sub is dual opposed? You need to use a generous output level to get the deep bass up out of the noise floor and maintain as much accuracy as possible. Keeping freedom from clipping and issues with gain structure may be an issue doing such a close mic and then switching to a much lower volume level with the mic at the listening position far removed from the sub too. I wouldn't use vented, horn, or anything other than sealed for this also. You also should defeat any processing of any kind and try to maintain as deep , predictable and extended a response as possible again for SNR issues, hence why sealed is best.


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post #19 of 244 Old 12-05-2011, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Ricci,

I can only imagine how full your plate must be. Your recent contributions at AH, is truly solid work, and I know you're busy. However, if you were curious what others may like more of on Data-Bass,....I'd like to see additional articles on other common misunderstandings facing the subwoofer enthusiast;....ie; SBIR, and subsequent destructive interactions and suckouts, bass traps, and here's a biggie; the inter-relationships between harmonic distortion level, EL curves, and PVG

Thanks for the kind words FOH (Everyone else too for that matter.)

Yes. Busy does not begin to describe it. My plate is full. Data-Bass is basically myself and Kyle. I do the tests and he designs and maintains the site which has also been a ton of work. There is nothing that says it must only be us doing all of the work. We have talked about having others contribute. If someone wanted to step forward and contribute some articles, measurements, pictures or whatever on any of the subjects you mentioned or a number of others that would be great. (Not necessarily outdoor testing which takes a lot of work, software, know how and equipment to get right.) We even thought about having someone do subjective reviews of some products. (That is really not my forte or preference of focus for myself personally). I personally would love to see some further research into room acoustics and PVG myself. It would be amazing to get information on 10 to 20 different spaces of different shapes sizes and constructions. It would be amazing for someone to take a small sealed 12" and do something like that. Bosso mentioned something like that a while back and I've been thinking about it ever since. That same thing could be done for different vehicles for the car audio crowd. How cool would it be to be able to go to Data-Bass and go to the vehicle gain chart and pull up 2008 Chevy Silverado regular cab and have the gain profile pop up?

Kyle's site he has built really is amazing with a very good interface to upload new content. Unfortunately there really is no money in DB right now. It is done out of love for the game so to speak. Anyone that did want to contribute would have to have a certain prefessionality and technical / knowledge level too. We have had plenty of offers to loan subs and drivers to get tested but I'm just one very busy guy and I can't handle what I have now let alone start working in these other areas.


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post #20 of 244 Old 12-05-2011, 08:44 AM
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Ricci,

Thanks for the reply.

James
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post #21 of 244 Old 12-05-2011, 11:19 AM
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Josh and Kyle, first of all, thank you for all the work you have been putting into the site (looks good!) and into the testing of all this gear. Tons of work but I'm sure it's fun too.

I noticed that you added some new stuff in the drivers section. Very interested in them JBL 2226j's . Do you still plan on testing them in the bass cabs cuz I didn't see anything on that? Only the driver, itself.


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post #22 of 244 Old 12-05-2011, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Scott. Short answer is yes. Don't hold your breath though. I already did high power impedance testing on a dual 2226J cab from the JBL 4675C though. Output= Not much going on below 30Hz (Tuned to 40hz) but above there look out... it's LOUD.


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post #23 of 244 Old 12-05-2011, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Scott. Short answer is yes. Don't hold your breath though. I already did high power impedance testing on a dual 2226J cab from the JBL 4675C though. Output= Not much going on below 30Hz (Tuned to 40hz) but above there look out... it's LOUD.

I know first hand that it is loud!! Anyways, great job for all the hard work including Kyle!
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post #24 of 244 Old 12-05-2011, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Scott. Short answer is yes. Don't hold your breath though. I already did high power impedance testing on a dual 2226J cab from the JBL 4675C though. Output= Not much going on below 30Hz (Tuned to 40hz) but above there look out... it's LOUD.

Nor should there be any output below tuning in a resonant alignment. We'll see how much they add to <30-40hz when there are 12 of them sealed in a small room.

Goodtimes, man. I look forward to even more testing.


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post #25 of 244 Old 12-06-2011, 02:29 AM
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Congratulations! Great job!

It would be very interesting to test the true potential of the 21SW152 Dual Sealed paired with the Powersoft K10.
This project is very similar to mine and I am very curious to see what comes out


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post #26 of 244 Old 12-06-2011, 08:37 AM
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Thanks very much Ricci!

The Qts for both the 2242 and 2226 are a bit different than published specifications, is the difference noted normal given some variations in manufacturing?
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post #27 of 244 Old 12-06-2011, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks very much Ricci!

The Qts for both the 2242 and 2226 are a bit different than published specifications, is the difference noted normal given some variations in manufacturing?

I can only report what LIMP tells me. Seems like my driver parameters come out with a little more BL and hence slightly lower Q values than factory. not sure why. It's all relative though. Some parameters directly affect others and a lot of them are calculated so the programs that typically measure this stuff may report slightly different results but the modeling will be very close between the parameter sets.

Kyle could probably explain this better.


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post #28 of 244 Old 12-06-2011, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scomed99 View Post

Congratulations! Great job!

It would be very interesting to test the true potential of the 21SW152 Dual Sealed paired with the Powersoft K10.
This project is very similar to mine and I am very curious to see what comes out

That has been planned for a long time. I have already put the sub back together. While I am at it I am going to do a test with the drivers push / pull to see if it lowers distortion compared to push / push.


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post #29 of 244 Old 12-06-2011, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

That has been planned for a long time. I have already put the sub back together. While I am at it I am going to do a test with the drivers push / pull to see if it lowers distortion compared to push / push.

Awesome to here!!


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post #30 of 244 Old 12-07-2011, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

That has been planned for a long time. I have already put the sub back together. While I am at it I am going to do a test with the drivers push / pull to see if it lowers distortion compared to push / push.

Nice!
Curious to see the results!

I tested my subs only in my dedicated room and the results were really good!


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