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post #631 of 1078 Old 01-30-2014, 10:46 AM
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Heh. There's always a price to pay for living in California. tongue.gif

That's okay. I would only need one of the subwoofer enclosure.

The Sentinel cabs I need four of.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #632 of 1078 Old 01-30-2014, 12:43 PM
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What are you doing with the sentinel cabs? Surrounds? With JBL woofers?
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post #633 of 1078 Old 01-30-2014, 01:37 PM
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post #634 of 1078 Old 01-30-2014, 02:30 PM
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What are you doing with the sentinel cabs? Surrounds? With JBL woofers?

Yeah. I have half a dozen extra JBL 2226h's left over from when I was hoarding them. tongue.gif I figure I should get my money out of them and build some serious surrounds. Better than just sitting in storage collecting dust. And it's usually the most expensive part of this kind of project so I figure, "what the hey!". I'm pretty burnt on building at the moment so some flat packs for four large surrounds would be sweet and lazy while saving money and time is awesome. smile.gif

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Scott...you are going to follow up on the sealed route?

Umm....say what?

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post #635 of 1078 Old 01-31-2014, 02:21 AM
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"Okay. Gimme two pair, sealed and ready for my extra JBL 2226's!"

Maybe I misunderstood..."sealed" Sentinel?
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post #636 of 1078 Old 01-31-2014, 01:58 PM
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Erich, any chance of a flat pack for the Martysub? I'm getting set to make a pair, but I would pay the difference for CNC quality. It seems like these have been pretty popular.
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post #637 of 1078 Old 01-31-2014, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by andy497 View Post

Erich, any chance of a flat pack for the Martysub? I'm getting set to make a pair, but I would pay the difference for CNC quality. It seems like these have been pretty popular.
I think has his hands full trying to ship out the 18" dual opposed flat pack. Would love any ported 18" sub flat pack!!
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post #638 of 1078 Old 01-31-2014, 02:44 PM
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"Okay. Gimme two pair, sealed and ready for my extra JBL 2226's!"

Maybe I misunderstood..."sealed" Sentinel?

Oh yeah...lol, sorry. I'm not interested in a vented one so I mentioned sealed. I don't know if there is one but still. tongue.gif

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post #639 of 1078 Old 02-02-2014, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by lemans24 View Post

I think has his hands full trying to ship out the 18" dual opposed flat pack. Would love any ported 18" sub flat pack!!

I know, I know...

I saw a post on another thread about why certain SEOS models weren't selling so well that didn't have a flat pack option. I just can't stress how big a deal that is. I live in a city. I know this sounds crazy, but there are actually millions of people like me. We might not have basements, let alone garages and workshops. We want to make wonderful bookshelf speakers, or maybe a mini-theater or something bigger, but just hopping down to our fully-appointed wood-shop is not an option. I know the demographic of people who want big home theater/music sound is small, but the people who also own a table saw is even smaller.

p.s. Martysub please please please biggrin.gif
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post #640 of 1078 Old 02-02-2014, 05:36 PM
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EricH has really responded lately regarding what type of 18" ported sub he will offer.
Still don't understand offering dual opposed as compared to ported as you only need single driver.
Oh well...I will wait patiently but Marty sub would be great or maybe a tapped horn sub like Lil Wrecker but in a smaller
flat pack version. Big problem for all of these designs is how many sheets for a single sub which will obviously drive up shipping costs...
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post #641 of 1078 Old 02-02-2014, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by lemans24 View Post

Still don't understand offering dual opposed as compared to ported as you only need single driver.

Because resonant designs are much more complex than a standard acoustic suspension alignment. A 'one size fits all' approach will never work properly with vented subwoofers.

He could offer a vented pack optimized as a single system, for example: a MartySub flat pack.

His dual opposed sealed 18" flat pack is pretty simple in that it just needs to be twice the size of his current 18" sealed flat pack.

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post #642 of 1078 Old 02-02-2014, 08:01 PM
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11 cubic feet tuned to around 17hz (e.g., martysub) works with a whole crap ton of drivers. that's not so much the problem. the primary problem is shipping. who wants to pay $150 (or more) for shipping? eek.gif

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post #643 of 1078 Old 02-02-2014, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

11 cubic feet tuned to around 17hz (e.g., martysub) works with a whole crap ton of drivers. that's not so much the problem. the primary problem is shipping. who wants to pay $150 (or more) for shipping? eek.gif
And I thought the whole point of the Martysub was that it was trivial to build using off the shelf wood stock and requiring very little cutting.
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post #644 of 1078 Old 02-02-2014, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I think I've figured out how to rig the site to calculate shipping on the heavier items. It will be a rig job though. Basically I'll tell the shopping cart program that the kit weighs half as much and is half price. Then if you order one, you'll have to add 2 to the shopping cart. That will double the price back to normal, and it will calculate 2 shipping boxes.


The issue with porting the big 8 cuft boxes has to do with the ports themselves. Where would the dual 6" ports go? If they are made as slot ports, you're talking about getting into more MDF, and quite a bit more weight. The dual opposed is already 100lbs, and it has 18" holes cut in every brace and every double baffle. Put those 18" cutouts back in 2 panels, then add 32" MDF slot ports, and you're up near 130lbs. That's 3 shipping boxes and 3 times the packing material.

I really don't think many would be ordered due to size and shipping costs and they take up a LOT of room. 40 boxes would take up 3 pallets, plus 2 pallets of cardboard shipping boxes.

If anyone could figure out a good design to port the current 8cuft dual opposed box, I could get different panels cut for the end caps. But slot ports probably aren't the best idea.
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post #645 of 1078 Old 02-02-2014, 08:26 PM
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yeah. guess it isn't simple enough. also requires cutting the driver cutout. win some. lose some. :-)

we'll see how the subwoofer flat packs that have been designed sell. they look good and are pretty simple to assemble. just not sure if it is an efficient process.

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post #646 of 1078 Old 02-02-2014, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

11 cubic feet tuned to around 17hz (e.g., martysub) works with a whole crap ton of drivers. that's not so much the problem. the primary problem is shipping. who wants to pay $150 (or more) for shipping? eek.gif
No the primary problem is not shipping or how complicated the design is but how can I make money to stay in business!!
If there is a demand for a solution and you can provide that solution at at profit, you will stay in business.
There is a demand for an 18" ported subwoofer flat pack that gives similar performance to a JTR captivator which costs 1699 including driver.
Even if you could get the same cabinet from JTR for around $1000 without driver...
I would still pay $150 shipping fee for $200 flat pack.
I don't know how all of you do business but if you only $50 in your pocket then that's all you can spend!!
You will Not make money chasing after pennies if it costs you dollars!!
First I would figure out what the demand is for an 18" ported subwoofer flat pack, offer initially one design like the Marty sub and float what the price would be.
Any 18" ported subwoofer is going to be expensive to ship but I like I said before compared to paying over $1000 for an ID sub BEFORE shipping makes
A diysg flat pack a no brained to me...if there is no demand then don't bother.
From my little gathering so far from this avs forum, it seems like anyone that is interested in a DIY sub, wants an 18" subwoofer.
I think a lot of them would love a port sub to complete there amazing seos based home theater!!
I know I do..
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post #647 of 1078 Old 02-02-2014, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
If anyone could figure out a good design to port the current 8cuft dual opposed box, I could get different panels cut for the end caps. But slot ports probably aren't the best idea.

 

Maybe something like this, 3" round ports in each corner.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1484470/it-finally-begins-the-uxl-18-build/0_100

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yeah. guess it isn't simple enough. also requires cutting the driver cutout. win some. lose some. :-)

we'll see how the subwoofer flat packs that have been designed sell. they look good and are pretty simple to assemble. just not sure if it is an efficient process.

I guess the compromise would be that a kit would have the front/back baffle and maybe the internal parts, and the user would buy the 4x 2'x4' panels (I think they are whole on the plan). It seems like a waste to pay to get those shipped. But that's just me :-D In the end though, it's up to Erich and he is already deep in the other kits lol.
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post #649 of 1078 Old 02-02-2014, 08:50 PM
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"If anyone could figure out a good design to port the current 8cuft dual opposed box, I could get different panels cut for the end caps. But slot ports probably aren't the best idea."

you could stick a passive radiator on the back, but at that point, not sure if it is a good value. might as well just get a second driver, no?

a 6" power port that vents out the back off center should be able to run up alongside the driver magnet. still would be pretty limited in length for driver clearance, but you might be able to get about a 19hz +/- tune. at 1100 watts, air flow wouldn't be optimal up around 36 m/s, but might be ok with a high pass filter and no tuning frequency "eq bump". that drops it down to about 26 at full tilt, but reduces bottom end bass response as well (of course).


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post #650 of 1078 Old 02-02-2014, 08:53 PM
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"I guess the compromise would be that a kit would have the front/back baffle and maybe the internal parts, and the user would buy the 4x 2'x4' panels (I think they are whole on the plan)."

that's the obvious solution. the problem with the obvious solution is that the panels from home depot might not be exactly 24", so the baffle dimensions are an unknown. :-(

alternatively, i suppose a plan could be put together where exact dimensions *are* known. but that is still a bit of a crapshoot as home depot (and the rest of the stores) don't guarantee accurate cuts.

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post #651 of 1078 Old 02-02-2014, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemans24 View Post

A diysg flat pack a no brained to me...if there is no demand then don't bother.
From my little gathering so far from this avs forum, it seems like anyone that is interested in a DIY sub, wants an 18" subwoofer.
I think a lot of them would love a port sub to complete there amazing seos based home theater!!
I know I do..

Draw something up that you think makes sense and I'll certainly consider it.
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post #652 of 1078 Old 02-02-2014, 09:20 PM
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Realistically how much would shipping be for a ported flat pack for a 18"?

I think the fact that a group buy for forty UXL-18's was such a quick success would suggest that there would be some demand for a nice ported flat pack option. I think a lot more people would be willing to jump into DIY if some existed. Would $350 shipped for a flat pack be reasonable?

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post #653 of 1078 Old 02-02-2014, 09:23 PM
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No the primary problem is not shipping or how complicated the design is but how can I make money to stay in business!!

If there is a demand for a solution and you can provide that solution at at profit, you will stay in business.
There is a demand for an 18" ported subwoofer flat pack that gives similar performance to a JTR captivator which costs 1699 including driver.

...

Any 18" ported subwoofer is going to be expensive to ship but I like I said before compared to paying over $1000 for an ID sub BEFORE shipping makes
A diysg flat pack a no brained to me...if there is no demand then don't bother.

let's take a look at that...

for a jtr captivator flat pack, you are looking at:
1. uxl driver or equivalent, $530
2. inuke 3000dsp amp or equivalent, $300
3. flat pack kit, ~$200
4. delivery, probably around $150, maybe more
5. other junk (glue, terminals, paint/duratex, etc.) $100

that's $1280.

still a no-brainer?
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post #654 of 1078 Old 02-02-2014, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

let's take a look at that...

for a jtr captivator flat pack, you are looking at:
1. uxl driver or equivalent, $530
2. inuke 3000dsp amp or equivalent, $300
3. flat pack kit, ~$200
4. delivery, probably around $150, maybe more
5. other junk (glue, terminals, paint/duratex, etc.) $100

that's $1280.

still a no-brainer?

Good list but just to play devil's advocate this purchase would allow the easy addition of a second "Cap flat pack" sans amplifier cost.

wink.gif

EDIT: No wait. You were probably meaning to have the inuke3k bridged to be more like the Cap soooo.... yeah, scratch what I said. tongue.gif

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post #655 of 1078 Old 02-02-2014, 09:30 PM
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don't you hate when that happens. :-)
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Good list but just to play devil's advocate this purchase would allow the easy addition of a second "Cap flat pack" sans amplifier cost.

wink.gif

I was just thinking that, I mean think about dual UM18-22's $560, plus a inuke 6000DSP for $499 and $700 for two ported flat pack cabinets. All that for less then a single passive Cap.

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post #657 of 1078 Old 02-02-2014, 09:35 PM
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you mean a 6000dsp.

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post #658 of 1078 Old 02-02-2014, 09:37 PM
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Yes....my bad. Lol

I fixed it....lol

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post #659 of 1078 Old 02-02-2014, 09:37 PM
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don't you hate when that happens. :-)
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post #660 of 1078 Old 02-02-2014, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

let's take a look at that...

for a jtr captivator flat pack, you are looking at:
1. uxl driver or equivalent, $530
2. inuke 3000dsp amp or equivalent, $300
3. flat pack kit, ~$200
4. delivery, probably around $150, maybe more
5. other junk (glue, terminals, paint/duratex, etc.) $100

that's $1280.

still a no-brainer?
Hmm...lets see...according to your calculations to get the similar output at tuning from the current 4cf sealed subwoofers, I would 2 of then which basically be 2 uxl subwoofers and 2 flatpacks and an nu6000 amp...what cost would that be...closer to $2000 is it not??
The JTR captivator including amp is over $2500 without including shipping!!
So yes...absolutely a no brainer if you are looking to match your high performance seos system.
Like I said if there are less than 10 people out like me then don't bother but judging from the UXL group buy
Which sold out 40 in about a week, I think you could sell more than a few 11cf subwoofer flatpacks for $350
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