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post #901 of 1124 Old 04-15-2014, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post

How would this compare to a JTR passive Captivator?

Which one? the Cap 1000 or the Cap 2400?

It'll really depend on which drivers you end up using.
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post #902 of 1124 Old 04-15-2014, 05:03 PM
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Peter I'm looking for the same size enclosure as you are... 30x30x21 give or take. I'd be comfortable increasing to 32x32 on those dimensions and dropping the depth to 19 or 20, but really don't want to go under a 7ft3 net volume for the driver (shooting for 8ft3 gross or so).

Hopefully Erich can come up with an offering in the ballpark of what I'm looking for as it would save me a lot of time if I could buy his, especially since I need two of them.

If not, I will build them myself. Since 18" drivers are few and far between at the moment, there's really no rush. Not sure if a flat pack would be available first or a driver at this point!
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post #903 of 1124 Old 04-15-2014, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post


Which one? the Cap 1000 or the Cap 2400?

It'll really depend on which drivers you end up using.

Basically I've narrowed my choice down to either finding two used JTR passive Captivators or build two DIY subs with UXL-18's when they become available. Either way I'd drive them with a Peavy 7500 or QSC 5050:

 

QSC 5050     2-channel:   1,100/8ohm    1,800/4ohm    2,500/2ohm  

Peavy 7500   2-channel:   1,250/8ohm    2,020/4ohm    3,750/2ohm

 

I like the design of Eric's "stonehenge" cabinet, probably at 30x30x15 (5 ft3) or build my own at 21" deep (7ft3), since I have the clearance. Remember I'm trying to integrate them with a DTS-10 in 10,000 ft3:

Room layout and dimensions

 

The DIY route is certainly less expensive, and I have already built a DTS-10 so it's within my skill set to assemble a flatpack. I have a standard table saw, but would need to buy more clamps to build my own and definitely some help to model it. I've downloaded WinISD Pro to my Mac desktop running OS X 10.7.5 and tried it in Windows XP through VM Fusionware, but it runs so slow as to be basically unusable.

 

I know that you have lived with your UXL-18's for a while now and really love them. I can't remember if you've heard the Captivator."

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post #904 of 1124 Old 04-15-2014, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post

Basically I've narrowed my choice down to either finding two used JTR passive Captivators or build two DIY subs with UXL-18's when they become available. Either way I'd drive them with a Peavy 7500 or QSC 5050:

QSC 5050     2-channel:   1,100/8ohm    1,800/4ohm    2,500/2ohm  
Peavy 7500   2-channel:   1,250/8ohm    2,020/4ohm    3,750/2ohm

I like the design of Eric's "stonehenge" cabinet, probably at 30x30x15 (5 ft3) or build my own at 21" deep (7ft3), since I have the clearance. Remember I'm trying to integrate them with a DTS-10 in 10,000 ft3:
Room layout and dimensions


The DIY route is certainly less expensive, and I have already built a DTS-10 so it's within my skill set to assemble a flatpack. I have a standard table saw, but would need to buy more clamps to build my own and definitely some help to model it. I've downloaded WinISD Pro to my Mac desktop running OS X 10.7.5 and tried it in Windows XP through VM Fusionware, but it runs so slow as to be basically unusable.

I know that you have lived with your UXL-18's for a while now and really love them. I can't remember if you've heard the Captivator."

I haven't, I honestly don't think there's anyone within a 100miles of me that even owns any JTR products.
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post #905 of 1124 Old 04-15-2014, 09:28 PM
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Thanks for the honest feedback.

 

I'd like to have both subs matching since they're visible in my living room and would have to find two used Captivators at approx $1,000/ea or a used one and a new one for $1,699 + $250 shipping (JTR wants $3,450 for two 2014 passive Captivators delivered). For the DIY option I'm figuring Eric's flat packs at about $330/ea (or $260/ea if I cut my own out of 3/4" Teak veneered ply) + $540/ea for UXL-18's. That would be:

 

$3,450 two new Captivators

$2,950 One new/one used

$2,000 two used (If I could find two locally)

$1,900 two DIY dubs with UXL-18's

 

Maybe I'm comparing apples and oranges between a manufactured sub and DIY. I've read on AVS that the Captivators are legendary for Home theater, and I've also read that the UXL-18/MartyCube is an AVS DIY favorite. For around $2,000, I'm just trying to figure out which would work better for my situation. If the captivator is really that much better, them maybe it's worth saving up for the more expensive purchase. But if the performance for two subs is relatively comparable in a 10,000 ft3 room, then DIY UXL-18's are definitely the way to go.

 

Has anyone heard them both?

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post #906 of 1124 Old 04-15-2014, 09:34 PM
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Erich's flatpacks are going to be around 170 each. I haven't heard the captivators but heard jbrowns subs and can't fathom any way you would be disappointed.
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post #907 of 1124 Old 04-15-2014, 09:36 PM
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The problem with your plan IMO of looking for a pair of used Cap's is that they hardly ever come up for sale. And when they do 9 times out of 10 the seller doesn't want to ship them. And honestly the only time I have ever seen a pair of used ones was a pair of first generation ones that were for sale for a long time. All of the new stuff seems to pop up one here of there and it only seems to happen a few times a year.
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post #908 of 1124 Old 04-15-2014, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post

Thanks for the honest feedback.

I'd like to have both subs matching since they're visible in my living room and would have to find two used Captivators at approx $1,000/ea or a used one and a new one for $1,699 + $250 shipping (JTR wants $3,450 for two 2014 passive Captivators delivered). For the DIY option I'm figuring Eric's flat packs at about $330/ea (or $260/ea if I cut my own out of 3/4" Teak veneered ply) + $540/ea for UXL-18's. That would be:

$3,450 two new Captivators
$2,950 One new/one used
$2,000 two used (If I could find two locally)
$1,900 two DIY dubs with UXL-18's

Maybe I'm comparing apples and oranges between a manufactured sub and DIY. I've read on AVS that the Captivators are legendary for Home theater, and I've also read that the UXL-18/MartyCube is an AVS DIY favorite. For around $2,000, I'm just trying to figure out which would work better for my situation. If the captivator is really that much better, them maybe it's worth saving up for the more expensive purchase. But if the performance for two subs is relatively comparable in a 10,000 ft3 room, then DIY UXL-18's are definitely the way to go.

Has anyone heard them both?

Definitely go with the Marty cube flat pack with the uxl-18 driver. I am currently building a jtr captivator clone with Marty cube flat pack from Donny that is 30h x 25.5w x 24d.
I think the jtr is the best home theater sub to fit nicely in a living/family room setting. I am so looking forward to firing up this baby but uxl-18 won't be avail to shop until around June sometime, last I heard from Mark...
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post #909 of 1124 Old 04-15-2014, 10:08 PM
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The Captivator is 30" x 20" x 22.5" (HxWxD) and tuned to 17.5 hz. I read it uses Fi Audio 18's (maybe custom made for JTR ?).

 

Did you go to 24" instead of 20" to get the same performance out of the UXL-18?

How long would the port need to be for a UXL-18 in a 30x20x22.5 cabinet to tune to 17.5 hz ?

Is the Fi Audio driver comparable to the UXL? 

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post #910 of 1124 Old 04-15-2014, 10:23 PM
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That's a good point.  In 40 years, all my audio purchases have been used and I've always been able to sell my gear for reasonably near what I paid for it when I wanted to upgrade. The exceptions were for the Pioneer Kuro (which I got employee discount as an installer for a local shop), the Marantz AV 8801 processor and Panasonic 4000 projector (which I got through a friend's employee discount). The Adcom GFA 555II's I've bought and sold for almost the same price, occasionally paying for a new power supply or custom mod's.  Some of my old analog gear sells now for more used than I would have paid for it when it was new (especially my old turntables).

 

The 1'st generation captivator might be hard find a match and apparently hard to re-sell when I got the urge to upgrade.  

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post #911 of 1124 Old 04-15-2014, 10:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post

The Captivator is 30" x 20" x 22.5" (HxWxD) and tuned to 17.5 hz. I read it uses Fi Audio 18's (maybe custom made for JTR ?).

Did you go to 24" instead of 20" to get the same performance out of the UXL-18?
How long would the port need to be for a UXL-18 in a 30x20x22.5 cabinet to tune to 17.5 hz ?
Is the Fi Audio driver comparable to the UXL? 

Seems strange.

Is the Captivator's net volume less than the MartyCube? 30" x 20" x 22.5" with a double baffle has a gross volume of 6.18cuft before any internal deductions. I think the MartyCube is 6.8cuft before any internal deductions. Marty's slot port takes up about 1.49 cuft to tune it around 20hz.

If the Captivator is starting smaller and tuning at lower, the port has to be quite a bit longer, which would take up even more volume inside the cab. Starting at 6.18cuft, and subtracting off even 1.35cuft (roughly a 42" port), the net volume of the Captivator would only be about 4.8cuft net volume, not accounting for bracing or driver. Is that right? Tuning 4.8cuft at 17.5hz would require a 18.5" x 2.25" slot port to be like 70" long. If so, a 70" port would take up nearly another cuft of internal volume.....which means the port would then have to be even longer.
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post #912 of 1124 Old 04-15-2014, 10:26 PM
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I am really interested in Marty cube flat pack for IXL-18.. How do I go about buying them?

Vinod
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post #913 of 1124 Old 04-15-2014, 10:31 PM
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I am really interested in Marty cube flat pack for IXL-18.. How do I go about buying them?

Pm me. I'm the guy who does it.
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post #914 of 1124 Old 04-16-2014, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post

The Captivator is 30" x 20" x 22.5" (HxWxD) and tuned to 17.5 hz. I read it uses Fi Audio 18's (maybe custom made for JTR ?).

Did you go to 24" instead of 20" to get the same performance out of the UXL-18?
How long would the port need to be for a UXL-18 in a 30x20x22.5 cabinet to tune to 17.5 hz ?
Is the Fi Audio driver comparable to the UXL? 

Check out this thread, I think post #132

www.avsforum.com/t/1527396/for-those-who-cannot-wait-on-the-ultimax-or-uxl/

Looks like the UXL-18 and the SP418 plot pretty close with the UXL-18 having the edge in sub 20hz content and the SP418 holds a 1-2db edge on average from the 20-50hz and then the UXL-18 from 50hz up takes over.
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post #916 of 1124 Old 04-16-2014, 09:17 AM
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Unless you are after something now, Mark at iST has proven he delivers a quality product with his hand-made UXL18 drivers...and that is part of the reason I organized a Group Buy for those as opposed to the Fi product.

However, Fi product may be just as good and available now. To each their own....
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post #917 of 1124 Old 04-16-2014, 11:19 AM
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Well that's 1 happy SP4 owner. Too bad he didn't revisit that thread for more of an update over the last year or so, such as if he built another enclosure and scored another driver.
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post #918 of 1124 Old 04-17-2014, 02:01 PM
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Hey Erich any updates on the process and when any of your new designs may be available?
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post #919 of 1124 Old 04-17-2014, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post


Seems strange.

Is the Captivator's net volume less than the MartyCube? 30" x 20" x 22.5" with a double baffle has a gross volume of 6.18cuft before any internal deductions. I think the MartyCube is 6.8cuft before any internal deductions. Marty's slot port takes up about 1.49 cuft to tune it around 20hz.

If the Captivator is starting smaller and tuning at lower, the port has to be quite a bit longer, which would take up even more volume inside the cab. Starting at 6.18cuft, and subtracting off even 1.35cuft (roughly a 42" port), the net volume of the Captivator would only be about 4.8cuft net volume, not accounting for bracing or driver. Is that right? Tuning 4.8cuft at 17.5hz would require a 18.5" x 2.25" slot port to be like 70" long. If so, a 70" port would take up nearly another cuft of internal volume.....which means the port would then have to be even longer.

 

From the JTR Website:

 

Driver:          18"

Excursion:    30mm xmax each way

Tuning:         17.5 hz

Port:             50% longer than 2011 model

Power:          2400 watts RMS

Frequency:    22-120hz (half space)

Sensitivity:    91 db. 1 watt, 1 meter

Dimensions:  30"x20"x225."  (HxWxD)

Weight:         142lbs (passive)

Build:            18mm baltic birch (grade BB)

 

 

How are you doing on the new flat packs?  

If you're set on 15" depth, what would you charge for a custom cut at 21" for those of us that want deeper?

 

 

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post #920 of 1124 Old 04-17-2014, 05:52 PM
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I asked him that question back several pages ago (about 2 weeks ago) and it wouldn't be worth his while unless a lot of people were interested in the same size. Typically he runs off 30+ of the same flat pack I guess; he doesn't just knock out 1 custom size for 1 person. If that were the case, I'd already have 2 customs in my hands smile.gif I said I wanted 2, as did another member in this thread which made 4... so if you're interested in 1 then we are up to 5 so far that are looking for a 21"D enclosure with the other dimensions being 30x30 up to 32x32.
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post #921 of 1124 Old 04-17-2014, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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On the larger depth cabinet, what are you guys hoping the net volume would be?
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post #922 of 1124 Old 04-17-2014, 06:22 PM
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Erich,

Anything in the 7-8 cubic foot range net I think would be perfect. It's a fantastic balance between your 5 ft3 version (or the martycube) and the larger 9-11 ft3 full size offerings already available.

Looks like every additional 1" of depth yields roughly .4 cubic feet of volume assuming the other 2 dimensions are 30x30.

So if your original design with a 15" depth yielded ~ 5ft3 it looks like it would take about 5 more inches to hit the 7ft3 mark.

Depth
19" - 6.6 ft3
20" - 7.0 ft3
21" - 7.4 ft3
etc.

I personally think 21" depth would be perfect, assuming the other dimensions are 30x30. I know you talked briefly about doing either 31x31 or 32x32, and if either of those dimensions were increased an inch (or two) a reduction could be taken from the depth to still hit the target net volume of at least 7 cubic feet.
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post #923 of 1124 Old 04-17-2014, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
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Erich,

Anything in the 7-8 cubic foot range net I think would be perfect. It's a fantastic balance between your 5 ft3 version (or the martycube) and the larger 9-11 ft3 full size offerings already available.

Looks like every additional 1" of depth yields roughly .4 cubic feet of volume assuming the other 2 dimensions are 30x30.

So if your original design with a 15" depth yielded ~ 5ft3 it looks like it would take about 5 more inches to hit the 7ft3 mark.

Depth
19" - 6.6 ft3
20" - 7.0 ft3
21" - 7.4 ft3
etc.

I personally think 21" depth would be perfect, assuming the other dimensions are 30x30. I know you talked briefly about doing either 31x31 or 32x32, and if either of those dimensions were increased an inch (or two) a reduction could be taken from the depth to still hit the target net volume of at least 7 cubic feet.

Changing the depth from 15" to 21" turns it into a huge sub. Mach one up, 30"x30" isn't too bad if its a narrow depth. But if you push it to 21" deep, that turns into a monster sub fast.
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post #925 of 1124 Old 04-17-2014, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Changing the depth from 15" to 21" turns it into a huge sub. Mach one up, 30"x30" isn't too bad if its a narrow depth. But if you push it to 21" deep, that turns into a monster sub fast.

I guess it all depends on what one considers a "monster" sub. Considering everyone has different tastes, room designs, room sizes, lifestyles (wife vs bachelor) etc. there's no way to really quantify it.

I maintain that having an offering that falls in between the standard 5 cubic foot martycube (and Erich's new 30x30x15 design) and all of the much larger 9-11 ported cabs out there would be a big hit.

To me, giving up that additional 6" of depth aesthetically is not a big deal at all... but I can certainly understand how some would be limited to the 15" depth; all depends on the person and the application.
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post #926 of 1124 Old 04-17-2014, 06:49 PM
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post #927 of 1124 Old 04-17-2014, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots View Post

I guess it all depends on what one considers a "monster" sub. Considering everyone has different tastes, room designs, room sizes, lifestyles (wife vs bachelor) etc. there's no way to really quantify it.

I maintain that having an offering that falls in between the standard 5 cubic foot martycube (and Erich's new 30x30x15 design) and all of the much larger 9-11 ported cabs out there would be a big hit.

To me, giving up that additional 6" of depth aesthetically is not a big deal at all... but I can certainly understand how some would be limited to the 15" depth; all depends on the person and the application.

If you're so concerned with having a bigger box why not just build one yourself? Heck for a $1 per cut Home Depot would cut up all of the wood if you gave them a cut sheet. $90 for three sheets of MDF and you could afford to pay for a lot of cuts before you even come close to the cost of one flat pack.
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post #929 of 1124 Old 04-17-2014, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

If you're so concerned with having a bigger box why not just build one yourself? Heck for a $1 per cut Home Depot would cut up all of the wood if you gave them a cut sheet. $90 for three sheets of MDF and you could afford to pay for a lot of cuts before you even come close to the cost of one flat pack.

That's 100% what I plan on doing; I'll likely do the cuts myself as I have the means to. What I don't have is a lot of time, only half a free day per week. That said, if Erich put out a flat pack in the dimensions I was looking to build my 2 enclosures at, I would probably be willing to spend the ~$100 per enclosure additional cost simply because it would save me time.
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post #930 of 1124 Old 04-17-2014, 07:08 PM
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You work 6.5 days a week ?
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