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post #991 of 1078 Old 04-25-2014, 04:38 PM
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Can you post the woofer size/tune/volume/outside dimensions again please? biggrin.gif
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post #992 of 1078 Old 04-25-2014, 04:50 PM
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Awesome Erich. What were the final dimensions? I know you were debating on the depth of 15" or 16" and the other 2 dimensions you were looking at anywhere from 29x29 up to 31x31 give or take. Curious what the final decision was.
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post #993 of 1078 Old 04-25-2014, 05:43 PM
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I thought it was 30x30x15?

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post #994 of 1078 Old 04-25-2014, 06:33 PM
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Very nice Erich!

I'm gonna use an old school blueprint 1803 with this new enclosure for the ht setup in the master bedroom.

Could you post a pic soon of the side with the ports?

Thx!

Link 1: All 3 Marty subs done, 6 week journey! Link 2: Quick Irule review with pics
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...k-journey.html
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/93-rem...ing-about.html
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post #995 of 1078 Old 04-25-2014, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevings View Post

Very nice Erich!

I'm gonna use an old school blueprint 1803 with this new enclosure for the ht setup in the master bedroom.

Could you post a pic soon of the side with the ports?

Thx!

You mean like this?

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post #996 of 1078 Old 04-25-2014, 06:40 PM
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Thx jb!

Link 1: All 3 Marty subs done, 6 week journey! Link 2: Quick Irule review with pics
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...k-journey.html
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/93-rem...ing-about.html
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post #997 of 1078 Old 04-25-2014, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I thought it was 30x30x15?

Last I read he was unsure; he said he wasn't positive what the final dimensions were.
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post #998 of 1078 Old 04-25-2014, 07:51 PM
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For all of you that are far more knowledgeable than me as far as sub enclosure volumes go... I was planning on building very similar designs to what Erich is currently releasing with his new "Stonehenge" design. I know his design similar to the martycube will net approximately 5 cubic feet to the driver. I was planning on building nearly identical enclosures to what Erich has designed, only with about 6" greater depth which yields about 2 cubic feet more per driver. Chances are I will hold out for the UXL-18. My question is whether the difference between approximately 5 ft3 per enclosure as Erich has designed or 7 ft3 per enclosure as I have planned would be a significant difference with the UXL-18? If I could save $100 per en closure (x2 = $200) buying from Erich verses taking the project on myself it would certainly be worth it if the performance gain with my own enclosures wouldn't be all that much better. Just curious on your opinions on this.
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post #999 of 1078 Old 04-25-2014, 08:03 PM
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I would guess that going from 5cubic/ft to 7cubic/ft would really only gain you 1 to maybe 2dB below 50hz. Above 50hz I don't think there would be much noticeable difference between those two sizes. I would imagine it would be similar to a mini marty and marty cube.

I know you've mentioned before that you're limited for time, IMO you are far better off to go with Erich's flat pack and using a UXL-18. I would guess that going with that combo would offer more output then going with a slightly bigger box like you want to build and using a SI 18 or Daytona HO driver.

I almost think you'd be crazy to not just buy two of these new flat packs, two UXL-18's and an iNuke 6000DSP to power them.

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post #1000 of 1078 Old 04-25-2014, 08:27 PM
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^^^^yup
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post #1001 of 1078 Old 04-25-2014, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Gentlemen, Stonehenge is alive! biggrin.gif

What a monster. I hooked this up very quickly (notice the wire nuts) to a 500watt plate amp in a big room and it is doing quite well. Can't imagine this beast in a house with 1000 watts.


Nice! I like the sound of that.
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post #1002 of 1078 Old 04-25-2014, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I have to say that it was a fun box to assemble, and easier than I thought it would be. The only concern might be the need for 2 clamps over 30" long, but you could double up some 24" clamps if needed, or use a nail gun I guess. I put in all the internal bracing without the need for any clamps at all. Just added wood glue in the slot and used a mallet to tap them to be sure they were okay and it was all still level in the end.

The assembled one I just posted was the one taped up from earlier. It's the closest to the same internal volume and tuning as LTD02's MartyCube.

My plan will be to make the biggest one I can using 5' wide panels, which should be right around the MartyCube volume. That way I can easily switch between Baltic or MDF if there was ever a need. From what I saw in the other thread, the 15" woofer models would work very well in this size too.

Once they're done, I will check the shipping weights for the 2 packages needed to ship these. One should handle the 30" x 30" panels and the Stonehenge bracing sandwiched between them, then another package for the sides, top, bottom, and port panels. That's the package I'm most worried about if we jumped up in weight with deep panels . It really needs to stay under 60-65lbs or we'd need to go into a 3rd package. At that point, shipping costs would pretty much kill the idea of a massive 8cuft+ ported subwoofer. The big one in the photo won't be a problem though.
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post #1003 of 1078 Old 04-25-2014, 09:09 PM
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You're right Erich, when LTD02 modelled a marty cube using a SI 15 driver and compared it to a SI 18 marty cube they were pretty close to each other. Which would be nice for you because you'd only need to change the baffle for either sized drivers.


This was the posted graph from LTD comparing the SI 15 vs SI 18 both being supplied 1100watts in marty cubes.



The green line is the SI 15.
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post #1004 of 1078 Old 04-25-2014, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post

After much trial and error, I finally got WinISP Pro to download and activate properly in a Windows XP emulator through a VM Fusionware virtual machine on my Mackintosh desktop computer.  I read some of the tutorials on the web and tried to enter the IST UXL-18 driver specifications. After a couple attempts where it gave me an error message and wouldn't save my profile, I finally got the specs into the program and started playing with the volume, tuning, port length/size parameters to see how it affects the slope on the graph. I'll post the parameters I entered later to see if I got it right.

I have a couple of questions:

Now that Eric has come closer to finalizing the design, do you know what the outside dimensions, internal volume, tuning frequency and port length/width/height will be? Just wanted to play with it in my new toy.

WinISP asks me to pick a box configuration: (1) -6db shell, (2) 13db extended shelp, (3) boom box ...different crossovers, etc.  Which of these is appropriate for the Marty cube and Stonehenge? How do I find port velocity in WinISP? I've read that it must not be lower than a multiple of the speed of sound to load the driver, but not faster than another multiple so the port noise doesn't "chug". 

A slot style port's width is pretty much determined by the width of the box. When I play with port height and length the length and tuning frequency change dramatically. What's an optimum thickness to optimize port volume in the 5 ft3 to 7 ft3 enclosures we're discussing with a UXL-18 (1.5", 1.75", 2", over 2")?

Now that I can see the difference in slope between ported and sealed for the UXL-18 in the same size box, I understand what I've read that sealed will give a longer lower slope without steep roll off, while the ported driver maintains a higher SPL to a point then unloads to bottoming out at the tuning frequency. I now realize why you would put a filter limiting the bottom end of your expensive new super sub! (To protect the ported driver from damage below the roll off point)

It makes sense that you would use multiple sealed subs to get all the advantages of sealed but with the SPL of ported.  two questions:

How many sealed UXL-18 Marty/Stonehenge Cubes does it take to equal the output of two ported UXL-18 cabinets? I tried to model it but I get individual roll off slopes, not a cumulative SPL.

It seems like the lower you tune the box below 20hz, the less output you get from 30-50hz where a lot of movie sound tract LFE information resides. What's the best compromise 17.5hz?  How are you guys getting this "poor shaking, drywall splitting" ULF volume below 20hz while at the same time getting the "punch in the chest" LFE volume between 30-4Hz?

If you use multiple subs tuned at different frequencies , don't you run into a nightmare getting them all in phase with adjacent resonate frequencies and multiple room modes?

How does the JTR Captivator, achieve it's legendary status in a 30x20x22.5 box tuned to 17.5hz? The Seaton Submersable HP, and SVS 13Ultra are even smaller, they have just as devoted a following.  Are they trying some "magic sauce" engineering insight or un-obtanium custom driver build that's not reflected in WinISP?

not sure if your question ever got answered.

"Which of these is appropriate for the Marty cube and Stonehenge?"

doesn't matter which you start with. just pick a ported/vented cab. switch internal volume to about 4.75 c.f. and tuning to about 21hz.

"When I play with port height and length the length and tuning frequency change dramatically. What's an optimum thickness to optimize port volume in the 5 ft3 to 7 ft3 enclosures we're discussing with a UXL-18"

2.5" port height at about 15-20" wide is good. check port velocity. generally airspeed of around 17 m/s or lower is kind of ideal, but higher may not be problematic. tough to say.

"How many sealed UXL-18 Marty/Stonehenge Cubes does it take to equal the output of two ported UXL-18 cabinets? I tried to model it but I get individual roll off slopes, not a cumulative SPL."

for a small ported cab, you can pick up 3-6db or so vs a sealed cab. 6db is what you get with two sealed cabs co-located.
for a big ported cab, you can pick up upwards of 10-12db or so vs a sealed cab around the tuning frequency.

"It seems like the lower you tune the box below 20hz, the less output you get from 30-50hz where a lot of movie sound tract LFE information resides. What's the best compromise 17.5hz?"

very astute observation for just getting started! yes. in my estimation somewhere around the point is ideal for folks with medium largish sub capability. 15hz or so for folks with HUGE sub capability and 20hz or so for folks with medium/smallish sub capability.

"How does the JTR Captivator, achieve it's legendary status in a 30x20x22.5 box tuned to 17.5hz?"

with a driver that has 30mm excursion, a super powerful magnet to allow for good control in a small enclosure and high upper end sensitivity and a super powerful amplifier.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #1005 of 1078 Old 04-25-2014, 09:24 PM
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John your ears must have been burning!....lol I was talking about you in my post and as soon as I edited my post you posted....lol smile.gif
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post #1006 of 1078 Old 04-25-2014, 09:24 PM
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+1 to what joe just said. that cab is the right size for so many options there will be lots of drivers that will work.
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post #1007 of 1078 Old 04-25-2014, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

What are all those photos of non flatpack and non DIY speakers? Shame on you.


Gentlemen, Stonehenge is alive! biggrin.gif




What a monster. I hooked this up very quickly (notice the wire nuts) to a 500watt plate amp in a big room and it is doing quite well. Can't imagine this beast in a house with 1000 watts.

nobody have erich a thumbs up? what has happened to avs? :-(

i did! :-) congrats erich.

since you are now testing, drop some carpet down, blast some bass and see if it buzzes around. worst case, maybe some of that stuff that is used under carpets for hardwood flooring will keep it right where it should be. probably not a problem on the rubber mat.
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post #1008 of 1078 Old 04-25-2014, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

John your ears must have been burning!....lol I was talking about you in my post and as soon as I edited my post you posted....lol smile.gif

that happens so much i just expect it. i exist jointly as an individual and as a part of the avs collective unconscious now...eek.gif

you'll know when it happens to you. you turn blue. :-) eek.gifrolleyes.gifwink.gif

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post #1009 of 1078 Old 04-25-2014, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

that happens so much i just expect it. i exist jointly as an individual and as a part of the avs collective unconscious now...eek.gif

Haha that one was worth a good laugh..lol biggrin.gif

I hope to have my last two super sized flat packs done next week! it'll finally be time to unleash four monsters in my basement smile.gif

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post #1010 of 1078 Old 04-25-2014, 09:33 PM
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^^ awesome!

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post #1011 of 1078 Old 04-28-2014, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

What are all those photos of non flatpack and non DIY speakers? Shame on you.


Gentlemen, Stonehenge is alive! biggrin.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/420117/width/1000/height/1000


What a monster. I hooked this up very quickly (notice the wire nuts) to a 500watt plate amp in a big room and it is doing quite well. Can't imagine this beast in a house with 1000 watts.

That looks pretty sweet there, Erich! smile.gif And you said the tuning was below 20Hz?


Also, what model Pioneer receiver is that? biggrin.gif



Also, some updates on the flat pack build I bought from you, the dual opposing 18" enclosure.







*edit*

I don't know why the last picture got messed up at the bottom, but at least you can see the cabinet just fine. biggrin.gif
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post #1012 of 1078 Old 04-28-2014, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoodcom View Post

That looks pretty sweet there, Erich! smile.gif And you said the tuning was below 20Hz?


Also, what model Pioneer receiver is that? biggrin.gif

The big dual opposed looks good.

The ported box is tuned around 20hz.....pretty much what LTD02 figured the MartyCube at.

I can't recall which Pioneer that is. I think the SX-780. I was collecting those vintage models for a couple years and have some really nice ones, including 2 of the 1250's. eek.gif The model in the photo is one I gave my dad. He must have wired it up wrong and blew a fuse or something and brought it back. rolleyes.gif
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post #1013 of 1078 Old 04-28-2014, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

The big dual opposed looks good.

The ported box is tuned around 20hz.....pretty much what LTD02 figured the MartyCube at.

I can't recall which Pioneer that is. I think the SX-780. I was collecting those vintage models for a couple years and have some really nice ones, including 2 of the 1250's. eek.gif The model in the photo is one I gave my dad. He must have wired it up wrong and blew a fuse or something and brought it back. rolleyes.gif

Thanks! I still have some wood filling to do on screw holes and sand them, but construction so far has been slow but smooth. Still waiting on some t-nuts to come in, which should be tomorrow. (None of my local hardware stores carry any six prong t-nuts.)

Sweet, and it does look great, I bet a person can do wonders with those and veneer. biggrin.gif

Sounds about right, and I too have a 1250, that I have been needing to finish work on. I brought it back to life but I still need to stop being lazy and finish the job. I do have a SX-1050 and an SX-1980. I love these big-ol receivers. biggrin.gif
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post #1014 of 1078 Old 04-29-2014, 12:44 PM
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You guys are killing me man. My first receiver was a Pioneer SX. Can't remember the model number, but I remember the speakers; CS995A 5-way with a 15" woofer. Bought 'em in 1971 sold them in 1985 . . . Does that make me vintage? smile.gif
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post #1015 of 1078 Old 04-29-2014, 01:07 PM
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I have a couple questions, probably simple. On all the graphs I've seen with low tuned subs compared to sealed, the upper frequencies eventually overlay, usually around 50-60 hz. I have a 12 year old sub I built, tuned around 19hz, and it does sound great at low frequencies, however, really don't care for it with music on upper notes. The enclosure has about had it, so I was going to build a sealed 18, thinking sealed would give the punch, volume and accuracy with a loss of lower db. The graphs look like the only thing gained with a sealed enclosure is a loss of low end? I've seen this on Martysub variants and Erich flat pack comparisons, posted here and there.
My question is, do the graphs not tell the whole story? How much does a high LE effect upper bass? And, do all Erich's flat packs get posted to the diysoundgroup.com site, or are some limited?
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post #1016 of 1078 Old 04-29-2014, 06:03 PM
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Hey all, I'm looking to build something with an LMS 5400 or a UXL-18 (if they ever come available) to replace my dying KSW-15. I was hoping to get a flat pack from Erich but I'm on the fence about going sealed or ported. I will be using the sub mainly for HT but also want it to be good for music. I plan to purchase a CV5000 amp to power the sub. I think that I would be happy with solid response down to 15HZ and do prefer a smaller enclosure (only if response is good).

Living room is 14 x 19 with a vaulted ceiling. Current sub resides in the corner behind the tv. Any thoughts on enclosure type? Do I gain much going with LMS over a UXL? Any flat packs ideal for the LMS sub?

I will also be building some new mains eventually (if that matters).

Thanks-
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post #1017 of 1078 Old 04-29-2014, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
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Sorry guys, sometimes I get carried away…didn't mean to hijack the thread 

Thanks

GNP in Pasadena was owned by Bill Gross, the G in GNP. The tubes those drivers are pictured in were lead lined, a novel cure for enclosure resonances. One of the GNP staff was a young man who had learned the Mid-Fi audio business at one of the SoCal chains prior to joining GNP. It was while at GNP that he came up with the modification for the Oracle turntable, the idea that brought him National attention. He left GNP to strike out on his own, and opened one of the two or three great Hi-Fi stores in SoCal, Brooks Berdan (R.I.P.) Ltd.
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post #1018 of 1078 Old 05-09-2014, 12:39 PM
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Erich,

Any update on the availability of the new 18" vented flat pack? Also were you able to find out the final dimensions? Thank you.
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post #1019 of 1078 Old 05-19-2014, 11:21 AM
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+1 I'm interested as well Erich. And while I ultimately don't care what the final depth if cabinet is, making the flatpack modular to some extent makes good sense (although I guess only two panels would be shared).


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post #1020 of 1078 Old 05-19-2014, 03:05 PM
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Still awaiting an update on these flat packs.
BrutalBodyShots is offline  
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