Ficar SSD18 Group Buy Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 535 Old 02-19-2012, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgse3 View Post

I don't have the space for these 18's let alone more or 21's. Check the classifieds for these soon

Hmmm.

*strokes chin*

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post #452 of 535 Old 02-19-2012, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiSounds View Post

What make and models are those?

Are you keeping the ones that test the best?

Xcon, SSD, and 18av2 (PSI built 18 using elemental design's 13av2 motor)
I'm guessing I'll keep the Xcon's in the event I want to add more if I move. I really like the appearance of them also. Maybe I'll unload them all and do LMS's instead!

If I were to guess I think the 18av.2's will have the best test results. I'm sure they will also have fairly high inductance, but should have lower Fs and better sensitivity. The av2 motor on them is massive, and the suspension is much softer. They probably have 20lbs on the Fi built drivers with copper even hung coils.

Big thanks to Josh and Kyle for doing this for everyone. Data-bass is a horribly addicting site, but could really change the DIY sub market for the better. I wish it existed when I made my first purchase mistakes.
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post #453 of 535 Old 02-19-2012, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Hmmm.

*strokes chin*

MY INQUIRY WAS FIRST! Hah!

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

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post #454 of 535 Old 02-21-2012, 11:31 AM
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Met up with Tgse3 last night to get his drivers. (Did you say that you had 2 more SSD's at home to hold you over? So you have 3 SSD's already and what 2 Xcons, plus the 2 PSI reconed AV2's?)


Haven't had a chance to do any more than give them a look over, but the Xcon and the Q are definitely cut from the same basic cloth. Frame, top plate, magnet slug, gasket, surround, spider, back plate and terminals are all the same parts as far as I can tell. Obviously the cone is a little different due to the different dust caps and the Xcon frame is painted black. It will be interesting to see whether there are enough coil and internal differences to make it perform any different.

The SSD is also similar and has a slug the same size as on the Xcon and Q but the top plate is slightly shorter and smaller in diameter as is the back plate. The coil wind is also shorter. Less coil and less steel in the motor might mean less moving mass and lower inductance for a more extended top end. All of the soft parts and the frame appear to be the same so the Xmech should be the same even if the geometric xmax is a little shorter.

The 13av2 motor is a big sucker with a huge top plate since it is underhung. It has been reconed to an 18". It probably weighs 60lbs I'm guessing.
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post #455 of 535 Old 02-21-2012, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Met up with Tgse3 last night to get his drivers. (Did you say that you had 2 more SSD's at home to hold you over? So you have 3 SSD's already and what 2 Xcons, plus the 2 PSI reconed AV2's?)

I have 3 Xcons technically. Don't act like that's too many subs for you. I'm confident you own half of parts express! I wish I could remember half the gear you own. I am going to come down with a box truck, and do some shopping at Ricci's AudioShack when I come pick those subs up.
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post #456 of 535 Old 02-21-2012, 07:47 PM
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I try not to think about it that way I dont have to admit that there really is that much equipment. I see many for sale adds in my future.
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post #457 of 535 Old 02-24-2012, 03:53 PM
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So whats the deal with FI audio takes so long, I did my order on the 12th and still nothing Grrrr...BTW anyone ever have problems with guiter center shipping bad amps ordered my ep2500 got it and input 1 was dead returned it and now have 3000dsp but still no sub
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post #458 of 535 Old 02-26-2012, 03:35 PM
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fi's product are hand built for each order, so a little delay with their small crew but well worth the wait, I've been running them for years, I was told I had the first 15" ssd's back in 06
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post #459 of 535 Old 02-28-2012, 09:57 AM
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I have heard people using the new Fi SP4 (w/ the 4" coil sub) are having great results. Results are on the SSA board.

Would it be possible to get a full list of the drivers being tested, possibly in a new thread for those interested?
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post #460 of 535 Old 02-28-2012, 10:30 AM
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Tgse3 I have already messed with all 3 of your drivers I just haven't had a chance to put anything together yet. Should be soon.
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post #461 of 535 Old 02-28-2012, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Tgse3 I have already messed with all 3 of your drivers I just haven't had a chance to put anything together yet. Should be soon.

Hell yeh! Can't wait to see how everything turned out.
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post #462 of 535 Old 02-28-2012, 07:12 PM
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The 18Sound should be there tomorrow as well!

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

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post #463 of 535 Old 02-29-2012, 09:49 AM
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Hello! I am new this this thread. I was wondering if anybody has measured the XCONs yet? I'm considering their 12" version.
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post #464 of 535 Old 02-29-2012, 09:50 AM
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Not yet. Still waiting on posted measurements for the XCON 18.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #465 of 535 Old 02-29-2012, 10:18 AM
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I saw the results off the Q18. Not sure how it faired to be honest.
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post #466 of 535 Old 02-29-2012, 10:29 AM
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No it didn't and to be honest, I don't think any of the other Fi manufactured drivers (XCON and such) will fair any better. I'd like to be surprised though.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #467 of 535 Old 02-29-2012, 11:52 AM
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Scott I took some crappy free air excursion videos of a bunch of drivers to try to give a sense of how much noise each makes when near xmax and xmech. I'll link them later. Don't expect anything nice. They were done at extreme close range with a cell phone.
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post #468 of 535 Old 02-29-2012, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

No it didn't and to be honest, I don't think any of the other Fi manufactured drivers (XCON and such) will fair any better. I'd like to be surprised though.

Just to be clear as well, Aaron has reiterated several times that the Xcons nor any of the other SSA subs are Fi manufactured, just similar or same parts in areas. They build their own

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post #469 of 535 Old 02-29-2012, 02:02 PM
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Ricci,

How does the Q18 compare to the likes of the Mach Audio UXL or alike. I have always thought the Q18 was a very good and capable driver.

cheers

Graham
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post #470 of 535 Old 02-29-2012, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Just to be clear as well, Aaron has reiterated several times that the Xcons nor any of the other SSA subs are Fi manufactured, just similar or same parts in areas. They build their own

That's not what I recall at all. That's certainly not what it seems like in practice either. I thought they were Fi manufactured to SSA's specifications?
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post #471 of 535 Old 02-29-2012, 08:42 PM
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scott, there may be a way to improve your "complex impedance" modelling.

inductance is kind of like the inertia of a moving mass but in the electrical domain--you push the electrons, but they push back and don't want to move. after reviewing the location of the impedance peak in a winisd model for the current fi q in 4 cubic feet sealed (~50hz) and what ricci actually measured (~30hz), i figured that i'd experiment to see how much added physical mass would be required to shift the location. it turns out that ~2x mms brings the impendance down to the measured result.

that is a pretty significant amount of "electron weight".

adding that kind of mass to a driver significantly lowers the efficiency (-~6db) in the upper bass region, while increasing it in the bottom end (+~3db).

yellow is sub with 2x mms added first, then 1khz inductance increased to match actual impedance measurement at 45ohms, which is 7mh. red is just increasing the inductance. across the subwoofer region, the added weight method ends up matching the measured result quite well.

maybe there is a way to make this into a predictive model, by first modelling the sub in the modelling program and adding weight until the location of the impedance peak is properly located, then adding 1khz inductance until the impedance at that point is about the same.

this method however requires an impedance plot, which is something that not all companies provide.
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post #472 of 535 Old 02-29-2012, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Just to be clear as well, Aaron has reiterated several times that the Xcons nor any of the other SSA subs are Fi manufactured, just similar or same parts in areas. They build their own

Not on AVS he hasn't, and no they don't. He's in fact said exactly the opposite. I dunno where you're getting that. See below linked quote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

That's not what I recall at all. That's certainly not what it seems like in practice either. I thought they were Fi manufactured to SSA's specifications?

Good memory! You're absolutely correct. It's not ambiguous at all: SSA subs are Fi manufactured to the SSA spec (likely the same or very similar options consumers have). Aaron Clinton of SSA says exactly that in the 3rd sentence of his post on this very thread!:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Clinton View Post

Yes, our subs come from the same build house, but that does not at all mean they are the same driver.

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post #473 of 535 Old 02-29-2012, 09:02 PM
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Point taken, I'm an idiot. Don't ever listen to me. I just read these threads every day and mix stuff up. Forget anything Ive ever said.

I thought at one point Aaron also said they are not fi built just same parts, their own design

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post #474 of 535 Old 02-29-2012, 09:07 PM
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you aren't an idiot beast. there were also some posts saying something to the effect of "ours are NOT FI DRIVERS", which confused me and would confuse many others. it would have been much clearer if they would have just said, "fi makes our drivers to our custom specs," if that is the case.

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post #475 of 535 Old 02-29-2012, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

you aren't an idiot beast. there were also some posts saying something to the effect of "ours are NOT FI DRIVERS", which confused me and would confuse many others. it would have been much clearer if they would have just said, "fi makes our drivers to our custom specs," if that is the case.

I was being a bit fesicious (sp?) as I recollect that same thing. Aaron came quite to the defense when folks were assuming their drivers were "Fi built" at one point. I can see where some miscommunication would occur...Ill look back and see where I/we are getting these thoughts from so Im not just kidding myself

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post #476 of 535 Old 02-29-2012, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

That's not what I recall at all. That's certainly not what it seems like in practice either. I thought they were Fi manufactured to SSA's specifications?

Am I reading too much into this to assume they don't measure similarly either? I have two of them running currently, but I'll wait to add my subjective opinions until I've had more time with them.
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post #477 of 535 Old 02-29-2012, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

you aren't an idiot beast. there were also some posts saying something to the effect of "ours are NOT FI DRIVERS", which confused me and would confuse many others. it would have been much clearer if they would have just said, "fi makes our drivers to our custom specs," if that is the case.

when i first read this i thought you said beast was an idiot, then i was gonna get all mad at you. but then i reread it because the post made no sense... now i feel like an idiot... lol wtf (this is what happens when i start drinking bourbon at lunch)....

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post #478 of 535 Old 02-29-2012, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_Vai_rules View Post

when i first read this i thought you said beast was an idiot, then i was gonna get all mad at you. but then i reread it because the post made no sense... now i feel like an idiot... lol wtf (this is what happens when i start drinking bourbon at lunch)....

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Get that Buffalo Trace and you wont be worried (trust me its awesome). Actually we are on the same page...

Id be willing to share a bourbon at lunch sometime, not normal practice, but seomtimz i mispel afater ive ben drankn. So don't feel bad at all

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post #479 of 535 Old 02-29-2012, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgse3 View Post

Am I reading too much into this to assume they don't measure similarly either? I have two of them running currently, but I'll wait to add my subjective opinions until I've had more time with them.

Two XCON? Can't wait to hear your opinion! I'm leaning towards an LMS-R due to the amazing return policy, but I'd rather have something made in the USA if the quality is comparable. Hard to find out though.
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post #480 of 535 Old 03-01-2012, 05:45 AM
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I think a large part of the confusion about SSA is that we had one of their salesmen come into the forum doing a bunch of hand waving and spreading a bunch of used car salesman talk. Words are wind. He tried very hard to hide the fact that Fi makes the SSA drivers, and he tried to poach Fi sales in doing so. Personally, I try to avoid companies like that.
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