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post #91 of 121 Old 03-13-2014, 05:10 PM
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Which Oppo unit are you using?

If running one of the Oppo's with a subwoofer out you can try and use that preout by itself to the Itech. Then see what you get bass wise.
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post #92 of 121 Old 03-13-2014, 05:54 PM
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Are you running the iTech's on 240volts AC like I was? (It's like 50% more efficient at that voltage).

Also, what ohms are you running (dual 4ohms would be a good place to start).

If you are running it at 4-ohms then you can basically turn off the power and clip limiters (leave the input limiter as-is).

So you have it set to this gain because of the AVR? (i.e. most-sensitive setting?)


Can you apply this if not, and then (starting at a low volume), play some heavy bass and take a screen cap of this page for me?
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post #93 of 121 Old 03-13-2014, 06:07 PM
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I have an XSP-1 powering my Itech 8000 in dual deferentially balanced XLR mode, so I have to have my voltage set much higher.
The XSP-1 is compliant with professional audio equipment (probably unlike your AVR).

This is what I have mine set to now:

^^^ By the time I hit -15db@30hz, I'm shaking the houses that are 100ft away from my theater with quad LMS's. wink.gif

Also, do you have an SPL meter, what SPL's are you getting at whatever output db's?
Also, how much excursion are you getting?

^^^This is iTech 8000 power. It's near max excursion here.

When the amp tells the subwoofer to move, it moves (and if it were a lesser sub, it would explode. biggrin.gif)

The iTech 8000 is no PowerSoft K20 or a real-deal FP14k at dual 2-ohms, but two of them powering quad LMS's definitely shouldn't be "weak" sounding. biggrin.gif
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post #94 of 121 Old 03-13-2014, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

Which Oppo unit are you using?

If running one of the Oppo's with a subwoofer out you can try and use that preout by itself to the Itech. Then see what you get bass wise.


Its an OPPO BDP-83
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post #95 of 121 Old 03-13-2014, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

Are you running the iTech's on 240volts AC like I was? (It's like 50% more efficient at that voltage).

Also, what ohms are you running (dual 4ohms would be a good place to start).

If you are running it at 4-ohms then you can basically turn off the power and clip limiters (leave the input limiter as-is).

So you have it set to this gain because of the AVR? (i.e. most-sensitive setting?)


Can you apply this if not, and then (starting at a low volume), play some heavy bass and take a screen cap of this page for me?


The itechs are on 240 line.

Running dual 4ohms.

Yes input sensitivity is set to 1.40 anything else and i could not get the SPL meter to get up to 75db's during calibration

After work tomorrow I will get the computer hooked up to the avr and get some screen images
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post #96 of 121 Old 03-13-2014, 06:35 PM
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Sounds like it's a problem with your AVR.

At 62hz and 6ft away, it should be painfully loud.
You should get a score somewhat similar to mine here:


110db at the very least, without a problem.
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post #97 of 121 Old 03-13-2014, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^
I'm not sure what could possibly be wrong with the AVR. Everything is hooked up correctly.

Not sure what settings I would need to change or look at? This goes for the Itechs as well.
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post #98 of 121 Old 03-13-2014, 07:58 PM
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The screen cap will provide a clue as to what is going on.
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post #99 of 121 Old 03-16-2014, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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War of the worlds - pod emergence scene - DVD-Playing of my computer connected to onkyo 876 thru HDMI cable

AVR master volume -12db
AVR sub woofer preout setting +5 (SPL meter was reading 69db)

Itechs had your LMS 18 configuration file you sent me months ago

Total volume for the scene never went above 85db at listening position.

With these settings the limit lights only flickered for a split second but clip lights on amps never came on.
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post #100 of 121 Old 03-16-2014, 10:08 PM
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can you take another screen cap of that scene on 1.4v with the output limiters and clip limiters off?

And do be careful not to bottom out the subwoofers (are they even moving? confused.gif)


Also, what does the monitor screen say the load is? (Should be 4 to 8-ohms.)
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post #101 of 121 Old 03-16-2014, 10:17 PM
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I hope you don't have the coils wired out of phase, that will fry your LMS's (if it's not already too late).
and what do you mean the limiter lights came on?

I had them set to -3db which is 2000watts (x4).
So with 8000watts output you are only getting to 69db? Something doesn't add up here.
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post #102 of 121 Old 03-16-2014, 10:31 PM
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I'm getting 87db at the second green light (which is the Signal Detect light or < -25db or roughly 30watts x2 ?)

and my clone, it doesn't even barely detect the signal and it is outputting... as I said 87db already at this point.

Are your amps broken or confused.gif
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post #103 of 121 Old 03-16-2014, 11:58 PM
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I just retested my system, I'm getting 102db @ -33db from clipping on this song.

You don't get anywhere near that? eek.gif
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post #104 of 121 Old 03-17-2014, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I wired them exactly like the TC Sounds diagram showed. How can I tell if they are out of phase?

All woofers move out at the same time and in at the same time.
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post #105 of 121 Old 03-17-2014, 10:39 AM
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Sounds like your wiring is fine then. The fact that they are all moving, and moving in the same direction; and that the center of the cones aren't getting warm.
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post #106 of 121 Old 03-17-2014, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Im not understanding what could be wrong, I know there is much tweaking that needs to be done. It seems I have to push the settings hard to get any meaningful bass. I don't want to take any limiters off at the moment, definitely do not want to break these.

Before I get anywhere near the settings on the Itechs, do I need to get the sub SPL at the SW preout to 6+ dbs hotter than 75db speaker setting? Because at the moment with the preout set to +5 I only get 69Db on the spl meter
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post #107 of 121 Old 03-17-2014, 05:25 PM
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Can you do the things I suggested above and report back the results? (load mon, 1.4v etc)

According to the screenshot you did, you are 20db away from clipping the input, you should be able to increase that up in both sensitivity and AVR output so that it reads -6db on the loudest/deepest bass scenes.

That might simply be all that the problem is...
That said, the limiters shouldn't be activating unless it is a good deal above 100db in the room (unless you live in a barn).
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post #108 of 121 Old 03-18-2014, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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As requested minus the limiters off, I didn't want to risk hurting the drivers.

1.4v sensitivity
+5 SW preout
AVR volume -12
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post #109 of 121 Old 03-18-2014, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Driver excursion



Bass never went above 90db for the entire pod emergence scene. Room is small 2000cubic feet
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post #110 of 121 Old 03-19-2014, 09:59 PM
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Based on those two videos, everything looks good.

A sensitivity of 1.4 for you looks good.
That's only 1/8th excursion you have going on there (looks like 10mm out of 80mm), that's well in the "safe-zone",
when the subwoofer starts to dimple or make nasty sounds that's when it's too much, closer to the videos I showed you wink.gif


You seem to be hitting the 80 volt limiter, you could try bumping that up by 10volts at a time. Up to 120volts is about as high as you'd want to go.

OR

You could try this settings file, it will give you a LOT more deep-bass, you'll be completely flat to 9hz with this one, and the subs will reach down to 5hz at a slightly reduced level.

This is the settings file that I currently run.
I applied some less-aggressive limiters to this one, than what you are running now.
(Actually, I run this one with the limiters completely off, because I'm crazy like that wink.gif )

You'll want to increase the sensitivity down from my 6volts and enabled your Y-spliter mode.

IT8K_LMS18.I-TechSeriesv2.I-TechSeries.zip 17k .zip file

Obviously this will allow massive amounts of infrasonic bass to reach the subwoofers, so start at a low volume until you get use to it.
Up until this point I've had you using a settings file that filters out a lot of the infrasonic content.

This file basically has the "training-wheels" removed;
you WILL get MAX bass with this (or near MAX bass at least),
but there won't be much to save you from the road-rash neither. wink.gif
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post #111 of 121 Old 03-19-2014, 10:44 PM
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What meter are you using to determine the SPL?

Try this song with the new settings file. I hit over 117db@20hz on this track and my room is 3000cubes.
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post #112 of 121 Old 03-19-2014, 11:44 PM
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I'm comparing your excursion to mine.

Clearly I'm pushing mine near max excursion and definitely to the "risky-zone" with deep-bass at high power.
(because I have the limiters and filters removed, and then the bass boosted up 21db hot biggrin.gif)
If I'm not careful, when I play movies, I could blow up my LMS's.




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post #113 of 121 Old 03-20-2014, 01:06 AM
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That said, it's about to get a LOT louder in my room...
I like LOTS of bass. I currently hit 120db on this song; but I will soon have 16 to 20 subwoofers and roughly 70000watts. (or at least, I hope I will frown.gif).





So what I'm saying is: don't loose sleep trying to keep up with my SPL numbers. (well... unless you are as bass-headed as I am... there is always that possibility. smile.gif )


You should be able to hit at least 110db @ the LP on this song, 33hz to 50hz without any problem.


Maybe you just need more subs to make you happy? You wouldn't be the first, second or even third person on AVS to be this bass-headed biggrin.gif

For another example:
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post #114 of 121 Old 03-20-2014, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the help gents. I will try the new file. And report back.

I don't consider my self a bass head but I definitely need more woofers.

I'm considering 8 SI unless there is a better value.
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post #115 of 121 Old 03-23-2014, 07:25 AM
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Eight si shouldn't be much if any more capable than four lms????

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #116 of 121 Old 03-23-2014, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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If 8 Stereo Integrity 18's in sealed cabinets wount beat 4 Ultras....than what will?

In my geometrically complex small bonus room above the garage the bass is lacking with the LMS's and need more output.
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post #117 of 121 Old 03-23-2014, 02:36 PM
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bth, that moonstone track is pretty cool. the low bassline in that one is 25hz according to a full run of spectrumlab. it jumps up to 37hz for while, but then goes back down to 25hz. not really much going on under that point...

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #118 of 121 Old 03-23-2014, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

If 8 Stereo Integrity 18's in sealed cabinets wount beat 4 Ultras....than what will?
In my geometrically complex small bonus room above the garage the bass is lacking with the LMS's and need more output.

For $99, why don't you just build what I've built? (and keep your LMS's)

Probably all you need is more bass above 40hz.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-pa460-8-18-pro-woofer--295-036
https://www.parts-express.com/behringer-nu3000dsp-inuke-3000-watt-power-amplifier-with-dsp--248-6706


(Ok, so it was closer to $800, who cares.)

8 RE-XXX's in an IB would beat it, but that's double the money than you have already spent.

How many db's does your tower speakers output? (You probably need more of that TOO.)

You should be well above 80 whatever db (there is something wrong, and you need to figure out what that something is) confused.gif

How about we start with you telling us what your SPL meter is?
Have you tried measuring the voltage of the amplifier outputs?

Here is the Crown iTech 8000, 1 channel, 60hz @ 133volts RMS unclipped

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post #119 of 121 Old 03-24-2014, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

For $99, why don't you just build what I've built? (and keep your LMS's)

Probably all you need is more bass above 40hz.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-pa460-8-18-pro-woofer--295-036
https://www.parts-express.com/behringer-nu3000dsp-inuke-3000-watt-power-amplifier-with-dsp--248-6706


(Ok, so it was closer to $800, who cares.)

8 RE-XXX's in an IB would beat it, but that's double the money than you have already spent.

How many db's does your tower speakers output? (You probably need more of that TOO.)

You should be well above 80 whatever db (there is something wrong, and you need to figure out what that something is) confused.gif

How about we start with you telling us what your SPL meter is?
Have you tried measuring the voltage of the amplifier outputs?

Here is the Crown iTech 8000, 1 channel, 60hz @ 133volts RMS unclipped


I don't recall seeing a thread or hearing you mention anything about those Dayton Pro-18's that you are, or were using. Can you post some details? I am assuming that you are using them for mid-bass purposes, right? What kind of enclosures are you using them in, and how do you have them connected and integrated to your other speakers, subs, and pre/pro?
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post #120 of 121 Old 03-24-2014, 07:08 PM
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I have them corner loaded.

My subwoofers a dynamically configurable on the fly.
I can set them to stereo, left mono, right mono, LFE, tri-channel, or any combination thereof via my DCX's.

It's been +2 years and I still haven't painted them. I never did create a thread about them, but I have shown them multiple times and talked about them more than once:


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