4 Sonosubs...want quality and simplicity - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 9 Old 01-07-2012, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll just start by saying I'm a big believer in multiple subs ever since adding a second sub about 7 years ago.

Unfortunately I recently had one of my Infinity CSW10 sealed subs burn out a board on me and it is more expensive to repair than it's worth. Ever since going to 2 subs I've been lusting after what 4 subs would do, so this seems like the logical time to do an upgrade.

I've settled on the Sonosub design, but I need some advice on two aspects of the project.

First -Going sealed?

This is a music first system. Group delay sounds scary, but I've never had a ported sub of similar quality to my Infinity CSW10's, so I can't personally speak to the relevance of group delay on sound quality. I just want to convey that sound quality is #1 here.

I also like the idea of going sealed because it will make the project simpler, and I don't have to worry about port noise or getting the tuning a little off from one sub to the next.

4 subs is a bit of a stretch as far as floor space for me, so I'd like to keep the footprint small. Don't want them stupid tall either.

The thing that worries me about going sealed is that I might not have enough spl for a large room of 25x15x8. How much spl do I stand to gain if I simply increase the size of the enclosure? How does enclosure size relate to frequency response in a sealed setup?

Does a ported sub tend to give a natural house curve down to the tuning freq? I like to have about a 4 db rise from 80hz to 20hz and I notice most graphs of ported vs sealed show ported has that low freq bass boost I want.

Second -My plan as of now

4 sealed Sonotube subs 14 inch diameter 3ft tall
4 Dayton audio SA230 amps 230 wpc to 4 ohms, variable phase
4 Dayton Reference RSS265HF-4 10 inch drivers

I want variable phase control for each unit so I can dial them in and maximize output. Is there another choice for a sub amp with variable phase? Are these drivers suitable for a sealed setup?

Thanks in advance, everyone
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post #2 of 9 Old 01-07-2012, 12:13 PM
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I've only built ported sonosubs...so i can't really give any input....I am anxious to hear your opinions on the proposed amps...and also you sealed design using that 10" sub .

Good Luck...There are so many people here that are always eager to help if they can.
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post #3 of 9 Old 01-07-2012, 01:19 PM
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i was with you all the way up to the part where you mention 10" drivers. that is a fail point.

"How does enclosure size relate to frequency response in a sealed setup?"

it generally gives a little bit more spl in the lower frequencies for the same amount of input power, but the lower the air spring, the more likely you are to overshoot a driver and damage it.

is the choice of 10" drivers because you heard somewhere that 10's are faster than 12's, 15's, or 18's for music?

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #4 of 9 Old 01-07-2012, 01:27 PM
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LTD has a great point. Four 10" subs will be an improvement over what you have, but you could move up to 12" or 15" subs for more headroom. It all kinda depends on your spl goals, a good match to your mains/surrounds, etc. Where do you normally listen at compared to reference level?

JSS
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post #5 of 9 Old 01-07-2012, 01:58 PM
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...found something for you. parts express has the tcsounds epic 12" on sale for $169.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=293-650

it will give you 3-4db more spl in the middle of the bass, which means 1/2 the power is required which means less distortion.

with your amp selection, 230 watts pushes the epic to around 19mm at 10hz (for when you kick a movie in there with infrabass) which is within the 22mm xmax of the driver, so you are safe.

the same power into the 10 inch driver exceeds its xmax of 14mm at 30hz and hits 26mm by 10hz, which probably means a damaged driver.

four epic 12's in your 3 cubic foot sealed enclosures gets you up to about 120db in the middle of the bass, which is good because it means that listening at much lower levels will have little to no power compression.

the 12" epic has the same qe as the 10" dayton, so similar control over the driver. no worries about flabby or slow bass.

an eq to help bring up the lower end to provide the signal shaping that you want will be required.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #6 of 9 Old 01-07-2012, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

...found something for you. parts express has the tcsounds epic 12" on sale for $169.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=293-650

it will give you 3-4db more spl in the middle of the bass, which means 1/2 the power is required which means less distortion.

with your amp selection, 230 watts pushes the epic to around 19mm at 10hz (for when you kick a movie in there with infrabass) which is within the 22mm xmax of the driver, so you are safe.

the same power into the 10 inch driver exceeds its xmax of 14mm at 30hz and hits 26mm by 10hz, which probably means a damaged driver.

four epic 12's in your 3 cubic foot sealed enclosures gets you up to about 120db in the middle of the bass, which is good because it means that listening at much lower levels will have little to no power compression.

the 12" epic has the same qe as the 10" dayton, so similar control over the driver. no worries about flabby or slow bass.

an eq to help bring up the lower end to provide the signal shaping that you want will be required.

Nice find...

JSS
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post #7 of 9 Old 01-07-2012, 04:39 PM
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You really should be looking at larger drivers for a sealed box solution. A 16" x 24" tube would basically net you 2.5 ft3, and work well with many 15" drivers. I think the Power Acoustik MOFO 152X would be a good option for this situation. A single sub with 300W would reach 20hz at 99.5 db, at only 10.5 mm excursion, and never reach xmax (15mm). A 300W Bash amp is cheaper then the 240W right now, and a no brainer with the larger woofers. These drivers work as advertised, I was the guinea pig


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post #8 of 9 Old 01-07-2012, 05:02 PM
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+1 to the larger drivers. For sealed, you need as much displacement (xmax * Sd) as you can afford. Do you have a specific budget?

Are you avoiding pro amps like the Behringer EP4000 because of fan noise? You will get better bang for your buck with pro amps and you will need the power with sealed.

As far as your concerns about group delay and sound quality for music, IME, that is not a factor. I'd generally say ported or passive radiators would be preferred for music because music doesn't need the same extension as movies. Sealed has two main advantages: small size and extension to very low frequencies. The disadvantage is cost. It takes more driver displacement and more amplifier power.

Is there a reason why you are looking at a 14" sonotube? IMO, your best bet is to go with 15" woofers in this case, specifically the RSS390HF. Four of them can be powered by a single $300 pro amp.
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post #9 of 9 Old 01-09-2012, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

...found something for you. parts express has the tcsounds epic 12" on sale for $169.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=293-650

it will give you 3-4db more spl in the middle of the bass, which means 1/2 the power is required which means less distortion.

with your amp selection, 230 watts pushes the epic to around 19mm at 10hz (for when you kick a movie in there with infrabass) which is within the 22mm xmax of the driver, so you are safe.

the same power into the 10 inch driver exceeds its xmax of 14mm at 30hz and hits 26mm by 10hz, which probably means a damaged driver.

four epic 12's in your 3 cubic foot sealed enclosures gets you up to about 120db in the middle of the bass, which is good because it means that listening at much lower levels will have little to no power compression.

the 12" epic has the same qe as the 10" dayton, so similar control over the driver. no worries about flabby or slow bass.

an eq to help bring up the lower end to provide the signal shaping that you want will be required.

Great, these are just the type of suggestions and discusssion I was looking for. Jay1, I agree with you that the larger drivers would be a no brainer, but the fall point of that route is the floorspace. I'm willing to move up to 12 inch drivers though.

On the topic of pro amps vs the Dayton amp I want the Dayton because of the variable phase control. I need to get 4 seperate subs firing in phase for this to be worth it. Are there other solutions out there for phase control?

LTD02, thanks for that info. Those drivers look great. What size enclosure would you suggest for me with the Epic 12in subs? What are you using to calculate enclosure size and output levels?

Thanks again, guys
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