Whats next, help me choose - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 01-14-2012, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
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As some of you may know I just completed my diy sub build. So on to the next upgrade/DIY project. Here's my 3 options, help me choose. What do you guys think would improve my Ht the most? Current setup at bottom of post

- build new towers, planning on going with parts express drivers. My subs completely over power the highs
- new pre amp/receiver.. Thinking Denon.
- new amp to power my current towers

Yamaha rx-v765
Ep4k 4ohm bridged
Ps3
Yamaha ns-555 towers
Yamaha center
4 Alpine 1223d 12's in 5.5cu/ft sealed

I really want to do the new towers because i enjoy building them. What speakers from parts express would you all suggest. If I'm going to spend the time and money I want some of the best they offer. Was thinking something like 2 8" drivers, 2 5" drivers and then honestly I have no idea what to do with the highs/tweeters. I want powerful mid bass and crystal clear highs.
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post #2 of 20 Old 01-14-2012, 12:38 AM
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There are quite a few threads on this. There is a lot more to it than just picking drivers. Designing the crossovers is not an easy task and best left to someone with experience. Even then they most likely will require tweeking. A kit is your best bet.
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post #3 of 20 Old 01-14-2012, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDKing2 View Post

There are quite a few threads on this. There is a lot more to it than just picking drivers. Designing the crossovers is not an easy task and best left to someone with experience. Even then they most likely will require tweeking. A kit is your best bet.

I know, ill figure it out. Now I'll just build them because you said it'll be too hard. Ive built more boxes than I can remember and also have rebuilt engines in my race cars with 0 training after doing some research on a board. I can handle wiring 6 speakers to a crossover.

So can anyone answer my original question? Denon, build towers, or new amp for the towers? pick the one you would choose that should be most cost effective and give most bang for my buck (and time)
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post #4 of 20 Old 01-14-2012, 06:41 AM
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I'd build new LCRs, but I'm addicted to building speakers.

Why parts express? What's your budget.
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post #5 of 20 Old 01-14-2012, 06:54 AM
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Build 3pis with DE250

http://www.pispeakers.com/catalog/pr...products_id/41

Wayne parham knows his stuff and puts a lot of time into designing a loud speaker, it makes the kits at parts express look really unrefined in comparison

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post #6 of 20 Old 01-14-2012, 09:59 AM
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3 pis aren't the worst suggestion for an upgrade. :-)

i'm not sure why wayne doesn't have the sealed option as part of his plans. the 3 pi with delta lf, in 2 cubic feet is down exactly 3 db at 80hz, which is thx spec.

what is the real sensitivity of your mains? 3pi with delta lf should be around 94-95 db 1w1m.

3pi w/100 watts is like putting 400 watts of amp on an 88db 1w1m speaker, but better. ;-)

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post #7 of 20 Old 01-14-2012, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i3ossman View Post

I know, ill figure it out. Now I'll just build them because you said it'll be too hard. Ive built more boxes than I can remember and also have rebuilt engines in my race cars with 0 training after doing some research on a board. I can handle wiring 6 speakers to a crossover.

Sure, you've rebuilt engines, but have you ever designed an engine? There's a lot more that goes into engine design than just replacing already designed parts like you would when rebuilding. That's similar to rebuilding a speaker vs. designing a new speaker from scratch.

That said, I would upgrade in this order.
1) Find a good speaker design/kit. (Works well with any amp or AVR. Can eventually wear out and require rebuilding, but never becomes outdated.)

2) Amp. (Works well with any speaker and AVR. There's really no bad sounding amps of good quality, however, there are plenty bad sounding speakers)

3) AVR. (They become outdated so quickly. I'd save that for last to get the most up to date stuff since amps and speakers never really go out of date)

YID DIY
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post #8 of 20 Old 01-14-2012, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

Sure, you've rebuilt engines, but have you ever designed an engine? There's a lot more that goes into engine design than just replacing already designed parts like you would when rebuilding. That's similar to rebuilding a speaker vs. designing a new speaker from scratch.

That said, I would upgrade in this order.
1) Find a good speaker design/kit. (Works well with any amp or AVR. Can eventually wear out and require rebuilding, but never becomes outdated.)

2) Amp. (Works well with any speaker and AVR. There's really no bad sounding amps of good quality, however, there are plenty bad sounding speakers)

3) AVR. (They become outdated so quickly. I'd save that for last to get the most up to date stuff since amps and speakers never really go out of date)

Really? You're going to compare designing and building a speaker to designing and building an engine. LOL. My point was i'm mechanically inclined and smart enough to, with enough research and help from the contributing members on the forum to do it. Missed my calling as an engineer haha. I get what you're saying, but again, I'll figure it out. I enjoy building boxes. I like putting things together and designing stuff, so similar to my sub build it'll be more of a fun project than actually trying to put together an absolutely perfect reference audiophile tower. I dont have any interest in a kit, not at all.

Thanks for your suggestions on my questions!
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post #9 of 20 Old 01-14-2012, 02:47 PM
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Kinda. DIY kits are just like rebuilding an engine; all the parts are laid out for you, you just gotta put it all together. I don't know if you've ever looked into changing a standard crossplane V8 (like the Mod 4.6) into a flatplane engine, but a lot of the work is theory based which is then applied to a final product. Speaker designing is like that too; you kind'a have to know what you're doing to successfully pull it off.

If you want to design a speaker, to get started, you'll need a
-calibrated mic,
-impedence measuring equipment,
-(free) software called room eq wizard,
-(free) WinISD, you probably alread have,
-not-so-free software to help design crossovers like LspCad,
-Loudspeaker design cookbook.
-You can also get more software about baffle diffraction to help plan out the placement of speaker drivers of the baffle, width of the baffle and what ripple/diffraction issues you'll have.

You'll design a prototype speaker, measure it, come up with a prototype crossover, remeasure, tweak crossover, remeasure, tweak baffle, remeasure, tweak crossover, remeasure, and continue in whatever direction. Maybe you'll change a mid or maybe a tweeter and start all over again. The key is to be patient and understand why you need to make one change or another so that when an anomaly in the frequency response happens, you'll know how to combat it or at least an idea of what to try.

Oh, you'll need a lot of time too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by i3ossman View Post

Thanks for your suggestions on my questions!

No prob. That's the route I am going. I am still rocking an older Pioneer VSX-1014. It has preamp outputs that go to an EP2500 which power some Dynamic 4T's. Once I get my main speakers redone (I want curved walls), get 4 more curved wall enclosures built for my subs, and get my room treatments figured out, I will upgrade my AVR. I'm only running 5ch surround (have the other two boxed up right now), so DTS or DD are good enough for me...well till the summer when this semester is over and I can get some enclosures built.

YID DIY
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post #10 of 20 Old 01-14-2012, 03:27 PM
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race car driver...hmmm....then you want something with horsepower.

with modern technology, it is pretty easy to design a speaker.

b&c de250, erich 15" waveguide, and, for you, pair up two 15" woofs. cross the show around 1khz. level match the top to the bottom and let it rip.

the 18sounds 15nd930 is a ringer, 98db 1w1m sensitivity. two paralleled is 3db higher. that should keep up with your big bass, no problem.

edit: two 15nd930 woofs in 2.5 cubic feet tuned to ~50hz with two 4-inch diameter ports that are 8 inches long gives a -3db point around 80hz as well.

behringer inukes are pretty cheap for power and dsp (digital signal processing; crossover, eq, level, etc.)

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post #11 of 20 Old 01-14-2012, 05:31 PM
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What looneybomber said. IMO rebuilding an engine is a kit, I have done it as well. Someone already figured it out. You are just going through the motions of putting it back to the way it was and maybe substituting some parts that someone else figured out will work. Not saying it does not take some skill to do that. If you have the time and the tools by all means go for it, could be fun.
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post #12 of 20 Old 01-14-2012, 05:43 PM
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a kit is one option. others might say you can get there with heads/cam injectors headers and intake. same is true here...

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #13 of 20 Old 05-29-2012, 01:01 PM
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Are the pi towers worthy for music/movies? Or would a more advanced DIY plan from the net for the hivi build sound better?
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post #14 of 20 Old 05-29-2012, 05:42 PM
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I know nothing about how good or bad the NS-555 is, but I know the RX series.

So...
If I were you I'd keep the rx-v765 and use it only for movie-mode and for powering rears and center pre-out, and rather add these to it for 2-ch music...

Step 1) this:
http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/.../products/usp1
http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/.../products/xpa3

After that upgrade if you're STILL not happy with the sound... then it is definitely the speakers!!!
So...

Step 2) Upgrade speakers, and that could be the last upgrade you may ever need to do.
Be it DIY or not.

-My 2 cents.

"If Bad Sound Were Fatal, Audio Would Be the Leading Cause of Death."


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post #15 of 20 Old 05-29-2012, 06:09 PM
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If you plan on designing your own speaker from scratch, I would consider going active with the crossover. You will have a lot easier time tweaking and adjusting especially considering this is your first attempt.
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post #16 of 20 Old 05-29-2012, 07:06 PM
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Hmmm... thread from January. I wonder how bad his speakers turned out lol. I suspect we'll never know He's smart though, he'll figure it out - just read the internets and solder some stuff :P


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post #17 of 20 Old 05-29-2012, 07:13 PM
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Didn't notice how old this thread was. You are correct. An update is in order.
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post #18 of 20 Old 05-29-2012, 07:18 PM
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He hasn't posted since January so don't hold your breath.


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post #19 of 20 Old 05-29-2012, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Grits View Post

If you plan on designing your own speaker from scratch, I would consider going active with the crossover. You will have a lot easier time tweaking and adjusting especially considering this is your first attempt.

Can you direct me to active crossovers?
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post #20 of 20 Old 05-30-2012, 12:19 AM
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Can you direct me to active crossovers?

minidsp
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